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Two month old NEEDS circumcision because foreskin is too tight? - Page 2

post #21 of 51
check out this thread for support

If your son was retracted by a doc/nurse, TAKE ACTION!

"The attorney for Doctors Opposing Circumcision, John Geisheker, will send a letter to the doctor/nurse/hospital pro bono (free) on your behalf telling them what they did was wrong and the consequences. It isn't a letter stating you'll sue but it is fully referenced and ought to get their attention."

PS Thank you Quirky
post #22 of 51
Can you go with her to the next doctors appointment at the new doctor?
post #23 of 51
Originally Posted by Mavournin
Then I am proudly a bad parent.

post #24 of 51
Thread Starter 
I will go with her if she wants/needs me too. Im confidant that after I give her all the good info I've found, she wont circ. My brother has been against it even WITH the docs saying to do it. I even found pics that show what a normal intact baby looks like for refrence. And Im going to get the docs name and address so we can get that letter sent. To her ped too, though he wasnt the one who retracted, he sure was the one who started it by saying the foreskin was too tight and needed circing.

I guess Im lucky, my ped and his nurse practitioner whom we mostly see have NEVER done or said anything like that!
post #25 of 51
If it makes her/them feel better, I could easily find 100 docs who would recommend medical circ for any infant. I wouldn't even have to try that hard. And newer doctors are not any more up-to-date on current recommendations than older ones.

Most doctors have no clue about penile care!!!!

The fact that two separate MDs seemed in agreement is really no sign of it being true. Many of us here have had to forcibly stop doctors from harming our sons. It's really quite common, and your SIL should be aware of that so that she doesn't have to worry that "they must be right".

Please pass along our experiences as well. Check out the sticky about those of us whose sons were retracted before we could stop it. It's a sad read, but you will see that I'm telling the truth about the medical folks...
post #26 of 51
I would suggest you print off the original version of the following links, and bring several copies with you. It is hard for a physician to argue with REAL position statements from National medical authorities. It may be easy for them to dismiss ‘biased’ internet sources regardless of how valid the information is.

American Academy of Pediatrics - Care for the Uncircumcised Penis: http://www.medem.com/search/article_..._typ=NAV_SERCH

“Sometime during the first several years of your son's life, his foreskin, which covers the head of the penis, will separate from the glans. Some foreskins separate soon after birth or even before birth, but this is rare. When it happens is different for every child. It may take a few weeks, months or years. … Most boys will be able to retract their foreskins by the time they are 5 years old, yet others will not be able to until the teenage years. As a boy becomes more aware of his body, he will most likely discover how to retract his own foreskin. But foreskin retraction should never be forced. Until separation occurs, do not try to pull the foreskin back — especially an infant's. Forcing the foreskin to retract before it is ready may severely harm the penis and cause pain, bleeding and tears in the skin.”

Canadian Pediatric Society:

“The foreskin covers the shaft and head (glans) of a boy’s penis. During the early years of a boy’s life, the foreskin separates from the glans. This is a natural process that occurs over time. You do not need to do anything to make it happen. … Keep your baby’s penis clean by gently washing the area during his bath. Do not try to pull back the foreskin. Usually, it is not fully retractable until a boy is 3 to 5 years old, or even until after puberty. Never force it.”

The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (Former Australian College of Paediatrics): http://www.racp.edu.au/hpu/paed/circ...on/anatomy.htm

“It is normal for the inner surface of the foreskin to be fused to the glans in newborn males. Separation of the foreskin from the glans occurs spontaneously during childhood. By five years of age most of boys are able to retract their foreskin. A small percentage of boys are unable to fully retract their foreskin until puberty. The foreskin requires no special care during infancy. It should be left alone. Attempts to forcibly retract it are painful, often injure the foreskin, and can lead to scarring and phimosis.”

Common denominator: May not retract till teen years. Do not retract. No problem.
post #27 of 51
CIRP: Normal develpment of the Prepuce: Birth through age 18:

The Development of the Retractile Foreskin in the Child and Adolescent:
post #28 of 51
Originally Posted by sunflower_mommy
The Development of the Retractile Foreskin in the Child and Adolescent:
GREAT! Especially since I have heard about doctors who say statements about not retractiong are intended for parents and not doctors.

I cannot open the link as written but if I go to doctorsopposingciucumcision.org and then click on the publications / leaflets option I find a link to the PDF download.
post #29 of 51


post #30 of 51
Thread Starter 


Sil was suppose to come over sunday to see what Id found for her on the subject. She couldnt make it and said she'd come one day this week. Today I called and said come today!! I took off work, I have time, come on. She said they have scheduled an apt. for the circumcision TOMMOROW!! I said, why,what happened? (last time we spoke she didnt want it done). She said, well, if he has to have it done, Id rather do it now than at eight or nine, it wont hurt as much now. I said, first, why would it hurt less now? It will hurt the same whenver its done, so theres no rush. Two, why do you think he'll have to have it done later? She said because two docs said he needed it and that eventually he'll have trouble peeing because of it. I explained about the foreskin being fused to the glans as NORMAL from now until after three or even after puberty and that most docs dont know jack about it because circ is SO common, that they are clueless about a NORMAL penis. Also told her about the glands in the foreskin that excrete stuff that helps it selfclean/kill bacteria etc. My brother still doesnt want it done but is deffering to her.

They are going to look at a house they may buy tonight at five and she said they might stop by after all to look at what Ive found. She already said they wont do tommorow if they do it the "old fashion way" at that hospital. Sigh.
I really hope she comes by and I really hope they listen. I went to APconnect and found a couple of local docs who know whats what when it comes to intactness, now I just have to call and see if they take medicaid.

Oh sheesh. Maybe I should call my brother? I dont want sil to think Im doing the divide and conquer thing, but really thats just what Im doing because poor baby cant defend himself.
post #31 of 51
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Of course you should/can talk to your brother!
post #32 of 51
Absolutely, call your brother, and make sure they come over tonight! If you have printed off all of this info from the AAP and other orgasnizations and references saying that it is NORMAL for the foreskin to be fused right now, how can they ignore that? You need to let them know that you have found some doctors that can e trusted with an intact baby, and screw Medicaid- I'd be paying for their visit myself if the doc didn't take it.
post #33 of 51
Oh wow! That's terrible.

I would definitely call your brother and tell him that they should not consent to surgery before they are fully informed on the issue. I don't understand why your SIL is in such a hurry to get it done, especially when she has heard that it probably isn't necessary.

Good luck.
post #34 of 51

Thanks for the update!

Thinking of you guys, hope you can change some minds!

Let us know what happens!
post #35 of 51
Good luck!
post #36 of 51
Thread Starter 

Well, they had him circed! My brother said he was doing it becuase they are "tired of going through all this". Really? All WHAT? Its easier to whack off half his penis than to stand up to all her relatives? Easier than to find a doc who isnt an idiot? Easier than worrying about future problems that have a lower chance of happening than him being in a car accident? I mean WHAT?
And they never even bothered to get the information I had for them. They never bothered to get all the facts, knowing that they facts were out there. I would almost hope there were problems from the circ except that I cant wish that on the baby. For his sake I hope its as ok as it can be. But I dont get WHY. Oh yeah, because two doctors said it had to be done and of course since they are doctors, they know more than I. Or more than anyone I guess, since they didn't bother to research it at all. I mean, if a doctor told one of THEM that they needed to remove an organ or chop off a limb, I bet money they'd research it, get second, thrid, fourth opinions.....

Why would anyone mutilate thier child just to shut up thier relatives? Or to appease a doctor who HURT thier child? Ignorance is one thing, but I was telling them the facts and had research to back it up and they didnt even bother to try and be informed. My stepsister had her two sons circed, but in her case I know she was ignorant, willfully ignorant even, but still ignorant. My brother KNEW better, it was THIER decision not to circ even before they knew my viewpoint because of a newsshow they had seem somewhere that basically myth busted all the common reasons. And they had me telling them that all of that is still right and I could back it up and they did it anyway!

Two doctors does not make a consensus. When a dotor wanted to perform surgery on my mom, she got several opions and the majority of those were to do the surgery. Her own research told her that the surgery often did NOT improve the symptoms and she found risk factors no one had mentioned to her. One doctor she tried to discuss it with got mad at her and said people shouldnt read about it because it just scares them unnecisarily. Point is, she found a doctor who tried other treatments because she educated herself. She didnt do it just because a doctor, or two or three, said to. She knows they are in the business of surgery, right? My cousin had the same surgery and lost MORE function.

My mom and stepdad had a big fight over it, my stepdad said its THEIR decision so we should shut up and leave it to them. Well, those pushing FOR it werent shutting up so SOMEONE had to speak for the helpless baby!

Im so upset right now. I tried so hard. What more could I have done? I wish they would make it illegal. I think that every parent should have to WATCH it be done, no, they should have to hold thier child down for it. I bet you'd see the rates drop then. When they take the child into another room where you cant see or hear, it's easy to convince yourself that its "no big deal".

Sorry, I feel like Im going on and on but Im really distressed by this. I mean, I just can't beleive they would find mutilating thier son preferably to doing a little research, especially knowing that they KNOW he didnt need it. People never fail to amaze me.

You know, I didnt want my son circed, thats true, but that was pretty much as far as I had thought of it till now. All of this has made me a raging intactivist! I'm giving a presentation at our next staff meeting about it (had a talk with my boss yesterday) since we work with families with small children, I think our staff should be educated in case it ever comes up. Also plan to let them know if a family has questions and they arent comfortable talking about it (there are a few people I work with who would not want to talk about penises) that I will be happy to go out and do it. Ive also appended some info and several links to my signature in my email. Im not stopping there, in addition to my own office, Im in an association of EIS's (others who do what I do, they just work for other ECI programs) and Im going to talk to them. Then,I swear to God, I think Im going to write a book. Something with a real mainstream title that expectant parents will pick up. Has that been done? Do you think it would work? I dont know what else to do. I want to join a group thats fighting to BAN it! I mean, I am all on fire about this right now. I just cant believe people would keep willfully mutilating thier children!

Ok, deep breath. Deep breath. It's gonna be ok.
post #37 of 51

I'm sorry. u did your best. sometimes it doesn't matter how much you song and dance and educate about a subject some folks just want to willfully remain ignorant.

i couldn't save my nephew, who is 2 weeks older than my baby. i still have pent up emotions over it. i dont look at my sister the same way anymore.
post #38 of 51

So sorry!

You did your best.
post #39 of 51
Some parents just don't deserve to be parents. UGH. Poor baby.

to you, you did your best.

Maybe you could collect evidence for him, like the doctor's name and what happened - then perhaps he can sue either them or the doctor who made such an atrocious diagnosis, when he turns 18.

Even better, report the doctor to the local medical board for malpractice, if you can, since he was clearly out of line diagnosing phimosis in a 2 month old baby. He's dangerous and needs to be taken out of circulation.
post #40 of 51
How disappointing.
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