Disrespect..

[Kiddoson]

DD is 5 1/2, she is an awesome kid and tons of fun to be around. We are having a real problem with disrespect, not just towards us but others as well. We do not spank, we have talked til we're blue in the face and I really think she understands, it's a decision she is making. It seems it does not matter to her how others feel, I understand this is an age related thing but I am concerned as she gets older this will get worse. We have tried time outs, taking things away etc, none of which works for the "next time". I have a friend that came to me about this, I respect her as a person and as a parent, her kids are great. Her suggestion however is to spank without emotion but as a consequence. I have to admit I consdered it, for about an hour, then I wrote this post. I feel like i have no options that will actually work.

Kim

[ambdkf]

What helps me is to not project anything that is happening now way into the future, then I'm more free to focus on the now. I look for the underlying need. What is my child trying to communicate? what is behind the behavior?

Specific examples like what exactly she did and how exactly you reacted might give more information for examining. From what you've written it is unclear. My bias is that I think punishments are disrespectful so it sounds like she is being treated with the same behavior you are trying to stop. I don't mean that to sound harsh, I only say it to point out there may be a disconnect for *her*. If she feels she isn't being heard or understood she might be more likely to treat others that way.

I think it is so great that you didn't go for hitting her! It sounds like everyone is frustrated. I just feel sure you can flush out what is going on and find something that will work for you both.

[Peppermint]

My dd is about the same age, she started kindergarten this year, and although she seemed to have adjusted beautifully, and is a little angel in school, she got some serious attitude at home there for a while (I was getting scared, and it *almost* pushed my dh to agree to homeschooling- hmm... maybe I should have asked her to keep it up?).

Anywho- as with most things, it was a stage that passed, and, as usual, I have no idea if it was my stellar parenting, or just that she got through the stage. I didn't really punish her, but- I did as I would with ANY person who is disrespectful to me, I told her I did not appreciate it at all and did not want to deal with her if she was going to talk to me like that, then walked away.

What I also did (which any other person, other than my dc would NOT have gotten) was to give her lots more attention and playtime with me.

I really think my dd needed more attention from me, but- as I said, it ended and I am not sure if it was more attention that ended it, or just the stage passing.

I think it is fair to tell her that you do NOT appreciate being spoken to that way (assuming you don't talk to her like that) and to walk away when she is being rude. When she calms down, I would discuss a better way to talk to people you love and spend some time with her one on one. 5 is a hard age, you are said to be "growing up" by so many, but in many ways you are still a very little child, yk?

Good luck!

PS- don't hit her! That is not the answer, it's great that your friend's kids are nice kids, but don't go thinking that can only happen if the parent hits, I know lots of great kids who have never been hit.

[Kiddoson]

[/QUOTE=ambdkf]
Specific examples like what exactly she did and how exactly you reacted might give more information for examining. [/QUOTE]

I am a horse trainer, often she goes to work with me with someone to watch her. Someone she didn't know came to the mounting block to mount her horse and politely asked her to move off so she could mount. She ignored her and did not move, I interviened at this point of course. Beyond that we can talk about the disrespect to us at home, not doing what she is asked, calling names etc. This is not constant, like I said she is a great kid and we have fun a lot of the time.

[/QUOTE]I think it is so great that you didn't go for hitting her! It sounds like everyone is frustrated. I just feel sure you can flush out what is going on and find something that will work for you both.[/QUOTE]

Thanks I hope so! After I wrote that post I was in tears, I feel like I am failing.
Kim

[Kiddoson]

Originally Posted by Peppermint

(I was getting scared, and it *almost* pushed my dh to agree to homeschooling- hmm... maybe I should have asked her to keep it up?).

I think it is fair to tell her that you do NOT appreciate being spoken to that way (assuming you don't talk to her like that) and to walk away when she is being rude. When she calms down, I would discuss a better way to talk to people you love and spend some time with her one on one. 5 is a hard age, you are said to be "growing up" by so many, but in many ways you are still a very little child, yk?

We are home schooling actually We have discussed this at length, we do not talk to her like this, ever. I walk away often when she is rude, mostly when it's her and I, that does work but again only when it's her and I. I think she understands what it is to be respectful but she is choosing to not be, this I think is the issue.
Thanks for the response, I agree she is a very little child I just want to be sure I am doing what I need to to help her on the right path.

Kim

[Peppermint]

Kim- I could tell that my daughter (who is a smart cookie too) was also being disrespectful on purpose, can you talk to her about it on a down time?

A few weeks ago my ds (age 4) got a week or so of serious attitude, and I was able to birng it up during bedtime snuggles and he told me he "missed grammy", which was totally true, my mom is a big deal to him, I promised we'd see Grammy that weekend and it ended, just like that.

She may just be checking you out (I hate to say, "testing"), so- remain firm that #1- you don't allow people to speak disrespectfully to you, and #2- no matter what she does you love her and want to help her through this.

[Kiddoson]

Originally Posted by Peppermint

Kim- I could tell that my daughter (who is a smart cookie too) was also being disrespectful on purpose, can you talk to her about it on a down time?

A few weeks ago my ds (age 4) got a week or so of serious attitude, and I was able to birng it up during bedtime snuggles and he told me he "missed grammy", which was totally true, my mom is a big deal to him, I promised we'd see Grammy that weekend and it ended, just like that.

She may just be checking you out (I hate to say, "testing"), so- remain firm that #1- you don't allow people to speak disrespectfully to you, and #2- no matter what she does you love her and want to help her through this.

Thanks, it's good to know I am not alone We do have our snuggle time, she seems to really need it and honestly I do too. We have most of our meaningful conversations during these times. I will continue with this but it is an every day occurance and while we really connect at the time, it doesn't seem to carry over. Maybe it's the age? We have always been clear that it's the behaviour we aren't happy with, not her. She'll tell you that herself
Thank you to everyone, I don't mean to seem negative. I made many decisions when she was young to parent a certain way, with lots of help from this board! It was so easy when she was little! If I had only known! I question myself a lot lately as I see how she treats people (at times) I wonder if I have overlooked something....
Kim

[ambdkf]

Originally Posted by Kiddoson

I am a horse trainer, often she goes to work with me with someone to watch her. Someone she didn't know came to the mounting block to mount her horse and politely asked her to move off so she could mount. She ignored her and did not move, I interviened at this point of course. Beyond that we can talk about the disrespect to us at home, not doing what she is asked, calling names etc. This is not constant, like I said she is a great kid and we have fun a lot of the time.

Thanks I hope so! After I wrote that post I was in tears, I feel like I am failing.
Kim

First - your not failing!! It's just a rough spot, that's all!! You are connected to your child and you will figure it out!

With the horse example: I would have asked her what was going on when x asked you to hop down. She might say that she wanted to ride, she was still petting the horse, whatever. Whatever she says can give you a clue about how to validate. If you can validate that she isn't ready to step down or whatever she needs then that often helps to move past it. Also, in situation like that, it helps me to remember not to parent against my heart just because someone else is waiting. Even if they had to wait a minute or two so that you could have a respectful exchange with your dd - that wouldn't be the end of the world. I know that can be hard under a microscope like that but in the end that person won't remember it but your dd will appreciate the time and that she was important enough to consider.

As for the 'not doing what is asked', that's vague so could be a million things - tired, hungry, etc. I'd just again look for the underlying cause and really listen to her. "How to talk so your kids will listen, how to listen so your kids will talk" is a good resource for that. Also, "The Five Love Languages for Children" is a great book that talks about how each person receives love. The back part of the book, I don't care for but the actually 5 languages part is invaluable.

This really will pass and maybe you can turn it into a connecting time for you both.

[Kiddoson]

Originally Posted by ambdkf

First - your not failing!! It's just a rough spot, that's all!! You are connected to your child and you will figure it out!

Thanks! I sure hope so

As for the 'not doing what is asked', that's vague so could be a million things - tired, hungry, etc.

At what point does the tired, hungry etc not excuse the behaviour? I agree that these things can cause the behaviour but she tells me what she needs when she needs it and we are prepared to handle most things.

Kim

[ambdkf]

Originally Posted by Kiddoson

At what point does the tired, hungry etc not excuse the behaviour? I agree that these things can cause the behaviour but she tells me what she needs when she needs it and we are prepared to handle most things.
Kim

Well I am 37 and I'm sure my dh would tell you to stay out of my way when I'm hungry

I just try to talk to my dds about how they are feeling and recognizing the cues before it becomes an out of control behavior. I talk about it with me (when I miss a meal) and with them. It seems to sink in for the most part and when we feel ourselves feeling yucky we are pretty quick to problem solve and get some food or go to bed early, etc. I just know that when I'm hungry or PMS - even with best intentions, I sometimes do and say things I shouldn't so I can totally get it when my kids do the same. We still ultimately try to prevent it but I can't imagine 'punishing' for something like that. It's just a process to learn about ourselves and the cues our body gives us and understanding how our behavior effects others.

[Peppermint]

Originally Posted by Kiddoson

At what point does the tired, hungry etc not excuse the behaviour? I agree that these things can cause the behaviour but she tells me what she needs when she needs it and we are prepared to handle most things.

Kim

*I* can get cranky, rude when hungry or tired, so I would say that can happen for a long time , not that it's an "excuse" but, I do try to remember how *I* sometimes feel out of sorts for whatever reason, and I am (in theory ) a fully functioning adult.

[Peppermint]

Oops, Anna beat me to it, off to bed for me

[luv my 2 sweeties]

I have a 5 1/2 y.o. homeschooled dd too. She's not rude generally, but she does have some other habits that really push my buttons! Like your dd, mine is usually a joy to be around too, but those moments can really get us wondering sometimes...

It helps me to take a broad look at dd's behavior -- is her "pro-social behavior" getting better over the long term? Worse? Static? New problems crop up as others are resolved, but if the general trend is positive, that encourages me.

I think clearly stating your expectations about behavior and continually reinforcing them (through spoken words, example, noticing when she gets it right, etc.) is key. I do think you should take non-violent action when the situation is serious. You already said you have a way of handling your interactions with her at home, which is good. In public -- if she is being extremely rude or antagonistic at a homeschool group, for example, I believe it would be appropriate to leave. Not only appropriate for her, but out of respect for others in the group. Discuss the details of what happened and why when tempers are calm. (I don't think the incident with the woman and the horse would require leaving, btw, unless it was happening repeatedly or there were other things going on in addition.) We have to cut them some slack based on age, but you don't have to accept or excuse any and all bad behavior from a 5 y.o.

Have you tried some roll playing? That might work well for her. You and she could talk about how she might have handled a situation better, then re-play it. The woman and horse situation might be a good candidate for that. Consider having her play the woman's roll with you playing what she did. Then allow her to replay her own roll.

Good luck! Sounds like you've got a great kid who's just hitting some bumps in the road.

[Kiddoson]

Originally Posted by luv my 2 sweeties

(I don't think the incident with the woman and the horse would require leaving, btw, unless it was happening repeatedly or there were other things going on in addition.) We have to cut them some slack based on age, but you don't have to accept or excuse any and all bad behavior from a 5 y.o.

Have you tried some roll playing? That might work well for her. You and she could talk about how she might have handled a situation better, then re-play it. The woman and horse situation might be a good candidate for that. Consider having her play the woman's roll with you playing what she did. Then allow her to replay her own roll.

Good luck! Sounds like you've got a great kid who's just hitting some bumps in the road.

Thanks, she really is great! I like the roll playing idea, I think it would really help her understand, we will try that tomorrow. I agree the incident with the horse was not worth leaving, we did excuse ourselves and have a time out with discussion. My friend/client who was there did not think that worked and I agree at the time it didn't for very long but today was a better day and while there were still some issues I saw her catching herself and correcting it, at least while I was there. I have realized today that some of my clients allow the behaviour which is probably confusing her as to what is acceptable and what is not. That is something that I think is pretty easily corrected. We did have a lengthy talk last night so that may have been more the reason for the change on behaviour today than anything else.

Kim

[Kiddoson]

Originally Posted by ambdkf

Well I am 37 and I'm sure my dh would tell you to stay out of my way when I'm hungry

LOL Good point Me too

We still ultimately try to prevent it but I can't imagine 'punishing' for something like that. It's just a process to learn about ourselves and the cues our body gives us and understanding how our behavior effects others.

I agree, I would not punish for these things, and honestly punishment doesn't seem very effective. It certainly never was for me. I feel bad I considered hitting her, thinking back on the conversation with my friend, the spanking also included a certain amount of humiliation which I would never EVER want to do to my DD.

Kim