Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Ages and Stages › Preteens and Teens › Another competition Saturday, was: Pre-Teen Dance Instruction and Competition Issues
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Another competition Saturday, was: Pre-Teen Dance Instruction and Competition Issues  

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
(Update in post 11. We have ANOTHER of these this weekend, but it's bigger and longer. Yikes!)

I am really struggling with some aspects of dance instruction for my daughter, not the least of which is dance contests. (Long.)

Background info: I took dance as a child, but never participated in a dance contest. It just wasn’t something the studios did much of, way back then. As a young adult, I discovered belly dance and ended up performing professionally. I now teach dance, gymnastics, theater arts, and music, mostly to the 2 to 7 year old range. And I'm thinking of starting some belly dance classes (teen to adult).

As a belly dancer, I have learned that, no matter what elegant, or even spiritual, energy I put into my dance, there is always going to be someone in the audience that experiences my dance as having sexual energy. That’s his interpretation of it, not necessarily what I put into it. It doesn’t usually bother me - I just firmly say NO to any advances. For a long time, I have thought that there are very few inherently sexy dance moves, that it’s all in how you present yourself, the appropriateness to the audience and setting, costuming, etc.

I’m also a fan of the human body. I LIKE seeing shaking butts, legs doing splits, strong backs, graceful arms, etc. We are nearly nudists at home during the summer (or, have been in the past, that may be changing). The human body is not necessarily a sexual thing - it is a beautiful, sensual thing.

But, as my daughter grows up (she‘s ten), I am more aware of, and do NOT like, the over sexualization of girls, and it seems to happen younger and younger. I also do not like the concept of judging children against each other (probably one of the reasons we home school).

My dd has been taking dance since she was little. She loves it, and says that she wants to be a professional dancer (as well as a veterinarian). She’s talented, but not a protégé in class. When she dances at home, she is WOW amazing - it really comes from her heart. And she loves performing - loves being on stage.

OK, now to the current situation: A couple of weeks ago, my daughter’s dance team (4th-6th grades) participated in a dance contest. I’ve been to contests before, and they were in auditoriums, and included ballet, tap, jazz, etc. This one was (mostly) held in a high school gymnasium, and had NO ballet or tap, and lots of pom pom dances and drill teams. Think halftime show, not “Nutcracker” or “Cats“ or a young Gregory Hines.

DD’s team did well - won a first place and a second place for their two dances. DD did a solo and felt disappointed that she hadn’t placed, but a few days later when she read the judges comments, she felt somewhat better. She had done well, just not as well as others.

However, I came away with a totally icky feeling. There was the appearance (and perhaps reality) of nepotism and favoritism in the awarding of prizes. There were middle aged men obviously oggling teen girls (who were, granted, shaking their booties). There was one man who rather prominently slept thru the less exciting dances, but would lean forward and turn his head to see more of a 16 year old‘s rear. There were ultra-competitive stage moms backstage. And there were dancers that won (who were, I‘m sure trying to be “nice“ about it) who talked down to those who lost (polite words, but with a superior attitude).

Not to mention ten hours in bleacher seats with no backs, overpriced drinks and greasy food, and WAY too much noise and lights and crowds for me. When it was over I cried - out of exhaustion or ick or what, I wasn’t sure.

And yet, our dancers got good, encouraging, constructive comments from the judges and seem to come away with a lot of positive out of the experience.

I’m just so confused.

Dance, to me, comes from the heart. I am not a physically talented dancer, not even when I was younger. My body just won't do some of it, like a deep turn-out in ballet. (I’m WAY better at belly dance than I was at ballet, thank goodness.) But I put my soul into my performances, and the classes I teach. I LOVE dance, and I see that passion in dd as well. And yet, there are broad swaths of the dance world that are abhorrent to me!

How can I reconcile this? How can I encourage my dd in dance, and support her desire to be a professional dancer (do I really want this for her?! Would I ever really NOT support her dreams?!), and give her performance opportunities, while still protecting her from the competitive, superficial, appearance-oriented, anorexia-encouraging, anti-crunchy, over-sexualized teen (or even pre-teen) dance scene?

Can anyone offer some perspective? I’m just really having trouble sorting all this out.
post #2 of 22
Moving this to Pre-teens for you to get more hits!
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thank you, MamaBug. I didn't know where to put it, exactly. My feelings are all mixed up and it seems connected to our homeschooling philosophy (a grow-at-your-own-pace style), pre-teen and teen stuff (but not exclusively so - there were five year old children at that contest). Not to mention the whole question of whether we should, as parents, support our children's goals even if we disagree with those goals.

I am one confused puppy right now. (An old saying from my mother's east Texas upbringing, ha ha.)

:
post #4 of 22
I hear you on the confusion part. We're not a "nudist camp" here in our house, but close. The kids have no problems with their bodies and yet display a healthly awareness of modesty when needed. We (dh and I) did a pretty good job educating the kids, dd in particular being she is a dd, of what ok and not when it comes to other people oogling them. I worry so much about dd. I know though that she must be allowed to be free to dance and play, be goofy and dress skimpy if the weather is hot. So I guess what it comes down to is I am far more watchful of people around my kids, always looking for warning signs of ????, than I am of my kids being too "sexy". It is not my kids who are being seductive. It is pervs who see them as that when really it is only them being innocent free-spirits.
post #5 of 22
Hi Ann-Marita. I think I am not quite understanding what your major objection was to the contest. Was it the actual competition aspect, the pre-teen girls dancing "sexy," the ogling older men? A combo of all the above? Anyway, I can understand you being upset at any one of those. I guess I would weigh your concerns against what your daughter is getting out of the contest. If she likes it and it is positive for her, then I think it's okay to let her keep competing for now. If not, then maybe talk to her about your concerns and see what she thinks. Maybe she could join a children's dance company or something similar less focused on "winning" and less likely to attract oglers and stage moms?

My daughter (7, almost 8) is super into her dance and gymnastics and wants to be a competitive cheerleader (although she has not done any cheering), so I definitely appreciate your concerns and POV from a few years down the line. I hope I can learn something from this thread too.
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 
OK, I’m sorting it out, some.

First, I have more of an issue with the human body (and moves performed by it) than I had previously. I’m becoming more prudish, as my dd nears the teen years. Yuck. I don’t really want that to happen. But at the same time, I understand it now when parents don’t want their children to have their bellies showing (especially during a dance).

I am having trouble finding a balance between feeling like “the human body is beautiful and sensual and there is nothing wrong with it” (which I mostly learned from belly dance); and feeling like “girls are over sexualized by our society, so underage dancing girls should probably not emphasize their sexuality”; and feeling like “expressing their sexuality and beauty is one way for young women to feel good about themselves”; and feeling like “it’s not like dressing, dancing, acting in a sexy manner suddenly flips from being not-OK to OK when they turn 18”; and feeling like “that middle-aged man oggling that 16 year old‘s rear is disgusting“.

ARGHHH!

Where do you draw the lines? Is a three year old wearing a yellow polka dot bikini on stage and grooving OK? Is it still OK when they are budding 15 year olds? What about when they are 23?

Or is it all on the shoulders of those watching? A person thinking sexual thoughts about that bikini-clad three year old would be a pervert. A (hetero or bi) man watching a 23 year old dancing in a bikini and having sexual thoughts or urges, well that’s only natural. So, was that middle-age man looking appreciatively at the 16 year old’s rear only natural? (My DH pointed out that testosterone doesn’t know if she’s of age or not, only if she appears to be physically mature.

--------

I’ve got other stuff going on, too. Issues with competition and judging children against each other. Issues with dance being a terribly competitive, and potentially physically (and emotionally) destructive field. Issues with supporting my child’s dream, no matter my personal thoughts regarding that dream. Issues with NOT supporting my child’s dream.

I’ll have to post more (and try to figure out more) about these later. Real life is calling.

lckrause, I didn't see your post before writing the above. I'll respond as soon as I can. Thanks!
post #7 of 22
My experience with dance (and Rain has danced on and off for 10 years now) is that there are different kinds of dance studios... the "competition", dance-team kind really turns Rain off, frankly. We checked out a few places when we first moved here, and one was heavy into this... and she was really turned over by the focus on flash and costuming, rather than on quality. The place she chose instead has produced a number of dancers currently dancing in Broadway shows, and they're very serious about the dance part... very focused, intense, not flashy or fun... and Rain loves it. This is what works for her, at this point in her life.

The place she was taking before this was in California, and they were different, again... they didn't do competition or Broadway, but they focused on the inner meaning of dance, and dance as a transformative experience... it was low-key (although the instructors were well-qualified) and it was perfect for her then.

So, I guess my thought is that there are lots of ways to perform besides these contests - Rain has done musical theatre for years, for example, and many shows have various kinds of dance numbers, from tap to ballet - and many kinds of dance studios out there, even now, some of which avoid the whole contest thing entirely. Maybe one of these would be better for your family?

Dar
post #8 of 22
I know where you're coming from, Ann-Marita. Young girls are over-sexualized in our culture. I have been at dance recitals and felt that same bad vibe that you are describing. I like Dar's idea of finding a dance studio that is more in line with your philosophy.
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks, everyone. I sure do appreciate your responses.

I'm having trouble finding a studio in town that offers what dd and I would like to see.

OK, just in case the universe is listening, I am going to try to define what I want:

I want a studio (or teacher) that teaches correct technique and expects and motivates the students to apply themselves to learning good technique. I want NO verbal (or other) abuse! I want dd to have several (many?) opportunities to perform over the course of the year. I want the competitive aspect of it to be de-emphasized. I want the social environment to be healthy, and not the typical teen scene. I want non-sexy costumes. I want my dd to come away from class with a healthy self-image, including a healthy body. I want the parents to be treated with respect and the bond between parent and child to be supported and encouraged.

The reason we've been going with the dance teams is because they have more performance opportunities, and are generally more focussed on good technique than "regular" classes.

I understand the attraction that many feel for Liturgical dance - the atmosphere is more uplifting and less competitive. But we're not Christian. And finding an equivalent Pagan dance experience is, well, I've never even heard of one.

I am seriously thinking of forming our own team. Maybe a homeschool team, or an AP team. Either way, the families involved must be Pagan-friendly.

I could hire out some of the instruction (I know a ballet teacher who was homeschooled herself), and I could teach parts myself (jazz, etc). I'm good at finding performance opportunities (none of which are competitions).

But I'm so scared of starting my own classes. Scared of failure, I suppose.

Gotta go.
post #10 of 22
I understand where you are coming from. Ballet is my dd's (11) first love. We live in a very small town and we're lucky to have any kind of dance studio. She never had any desire to do Jazz or Tap (she did do Tap for a year) until this year when she was accepted into "Company" and is now expected to be proficient in all three. There are two things challenging in this for her. The first is just learning how to move her body in a way that didn't really "speak" to her before. But the second is the costumes and the suggestive moves. We are not Christian either (quite pagen-bent, but really not religious) but still have really serious concern over the sexualization of young girls. I have been so relieved at her disinterest in Jazz simply because of the costumes those little girls wear!! The movements might not seem so sexual if the girls weren't showing three quarters of their bodies! Luckily, my dd doesn't want to wear those costumes, either, so this year, she is taking an interest helping to choose the costumes. We don't have any kind of dance team. Company does a few extra performances each year besides the regular recital...small town woes. The main dance instructor is really artsy in her choreography and her pieces usually take a modern perspective. However, her assistant is the Jazz/Tap instructor and usually things are pretty typically what you would see a dance team do. I don't know how to deal with it either except to keep encouraging my DD's modesty while continuuing to encourage her love of dance. Her greatest aspiration right now is to be a dancer and I can't imagine doing anything that might squelch that desire even with all the crap she might be faced with. So...I think I understand where you are coming from. I just don't really know quite how to deal with it, either.
post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Oh, man! We have ANOTHER of these competitions this weekend! Just thinking about it makes me tired.

It is (again) being held in a gym with bleachers (as opposed to a auditorium with cushioned, individual chairs with backs). And it will be over 12 hours in that gym!

I'm trying to take steps so it is a more comfortable experience than the last one (even though it is longer).

I am planning on begging, borrowing or stealing (not really) a stadium seat, so I will have a seat back to lean against. We are going to pack an activity bag (books, a small game, maybe some colors, etc) and I will take my dd out of the gym at times. We'll go find some quiet, out-of-the-way place to sit and read or play a game.

All the noise and lights and crowds kind of got to us both last time, but I didn't think to take dd out of the gym and let her have "down" time. I won't make that mistake again.

The teachers told me that the dancers can't leave the premises until both dances are done. Ick. They have one dance in morning, and another one around 5pm. Then they have to be back at 8pm (or is it 8:30pm) for the awards ceremony, which is expected to be an hour and a half or more.

Slightly OT: The web site for this competition says that they give each team a certain number of passes to get in free (they charge for admission). These are intended for the parents who volunteer (booster club officers, administrators, etc). The teachers get badges and get in free also. Well, I assist teaching the younger team (not my daughter's), and I'm costume coordinator for my daughter's team, and I teach other classes at the studio, AND the owner of the studio KNOWS that we are financially strapped right now. But did she offer me one of those passes??? NOOoooo! And I'm probably too pridefull to ask (beg) her for one. I'll pay the admission, but DH is not going.

I'm still conflicted about all this.
post #12 of 22
Wow, even if the over-sexualized stuff and the competitiveness didn't put me off the 12-HOUR events sure would!! I didn't even know those existed: it sounds like hell on earth....

I've been to painfully long recitals before (e.g. 4 hours), but at least those were in a theatre. Frankly that sounds unbelievably agonizing and not at all respectful of families' time or the needs of other children in the families.

I'm sorry it's so tough to find what you want in your town. That would be really frustrating.
post #13 of 22
12 hours really does sound like a terribly long time. How many different teams are competing?

You are a brave, brave woman.
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
I won't be in the gym for 12 hours. There is a break for supper after our dancers' second number at about 5pm. I need to keep that in mind. But we are supposed to be there from mid-morning to after their second dance, and then again for the award ceremony in the evening (until about 10pm).

My poor, dear, dd. She thought that we could leave during the five hours between their dances. When I explained that the teachers said we couldn't leave the premises, she burst into tears. I told her that we will be bringing a healthy lunch that we will eat in the car, and that she and I will go off and find a quiet place to read aloud or play games during the afternoon.

She said that she didn't like how she felt the last time. Make-up on her face all day, tights on all day, too much noise, too many dances. She said "It's like cable TV, but IN your BRAIN." I interpret that as input overload.

It turns out that my boss didn't know about the free passes. So, I was all offended for absolutely no reason. I was being peevish. I feel like I should apologize to someone, but I'm not sure who. Maybe it's all of you.

I think I better stop for now. I recently nearly doubled the number of hours per week that I work, and I am so tired that I'm weepy. Bed is calling.

Thank you all for your continued support.
post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
Well, maybe just one more post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lckrause
12 hours really does sound like a terribly long time. How many different teams are competing?

You are a brave, brave woman.
It's over 40 teams, and some (most?) perform multiple routines.

Brave? Ha. It's feeling more like foolish.
post #16 of 22
Quote:
It turns out that my boss didn't know about the free passes. So, I was all offended for absolutely no reason. I was being peevish. I feel like I should apologize to someone, but I'm not sure who. Maybe it's all of you.
Its ok, comp fees can totally add up and when you're making scarafices to dance it can get to you.

I am a competitive dancer, I know exactly what you are talking avout -- 12 hour days, competition moms, overpriced food/drinks (when there even is some), comp fees, door fees, etc -- it is rediculous.

I would bring food (if I had any, when I was in college I didn't even have parking $, there was a family that would pack extra food if they knew I was going to be there). I'd always bring books, homework etc, because even tho we were "allowed" to leave you never knew how the comps were going to run and you never wanted to risk not being there for your dance.

I compete because for me it is a very spiritual experiance (plus i'm a competitive person), but that's just me. I love dance so much, which is why at 26 I'm back in the competitve game with the "big kids" (21 & over) after 4 years of "retirement".

I do irish dance, so no showing bellies, but even there there's alot of controversy over weather girls younger than 12 should be allowed to wear make up or wigs or fake tans. There are constant debates on skirt length and if it is approprate to allow girls to run around in their bras and bloomers in between dances.

But our comps are usualy 12-14 hour days and take up a whole weekend and usualy have 1000 dancers. Its exhausting. There are never enough chairs, no places to hang our expensive costumes ($1500-3000 new, generally). I usually bring a fold up camp chair. But I don't have a dress rack. There are always learning or small minded people (and of course stage moms) but they are just things I have to put up with if I want to compete. Just like i don't like most of the costume styles and I don't want to wear a wig, but if my teacher says I have to, then I have to, KWIM? (my execption is, if i ever qualify for worls I'm going to wear whatever I want, b/c after that i could retire and be content )

I have been to youth dance recitals when dsd was dancing and I was apauled at the skimpy outfits and suggestive moves (not to mention the studio charged alot for classes and it was obvious they were not getting the corrections they needed). What got me was how the girls were being sexualized for entertainment purposes and for the most part the girls were unaware. The dance teachers think it's cute or edgy to do this and I think its wrong. You can do beautiful or edgy dances without this overt sexualization -- like the OP says, there will always be people who interpriate some things as sexual, but alot of what I have seen has been meant to be sexual, because, well, sex sells, and i have a problem with applying this to kids, fortunaly dsd doesn't dance anymore.

I have talked to dsd about this and she tries to understand that its not her, but what other people percieve, which can be difficult (she's 11).

I like the idea of starting your own team.
post #17 of 22
No real advice - I just want to vent along with you . My dd is 16 and is Captain of her school's color guard. When she signed up, I thought it would just be performing with the band and football games and parades. WRONG!! We just finished competition season. Travel to high schools at LEAST 2 hours away from home, sitting around waiting for my dd to perform for 3 minutes, the endless parade of teams and awards ceremonies - it ruins many a weekend around here. When my dd was a freshman her team was the State Champion, last year they placed 2nd in the State, and this year they did not even qualify to go - and she is happy about it! The joy of Flags is over, and now she just wants to keep it up for the sake of the other, younger girls.

I do know how you feel about the "sexiness" of the routines. It makes me uncomfortable watching the dancers shake T & A in the hopes of titillating the judges into giving them a higher score, but I REALLY REALLY hate the little winks and smiles that go along with it. I mean no disrepect to dancers, as they are incredibly talented and work very hard - it just breaks my heart to see young girls have to sex it up to win in the Pom & Pom/Dance categories.
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann-Marita
She said that she didn't like how she felt the last time. Make-up on her face all day, tights on all day, too much noise, too many dances. She said "It's like cable TV, but IN your BRAIN." I interpret that as input overload.
So this sort of sounds like your dd isn't too happy with the competitions. Do you think she wants/needs to quit for a while? Or maybe just not go to the bigger competitions? (Are there smaller ones? I don't know.) I could see my daughter feeling the same way--loving the actual dance in a team part, but hating the waiting around and having to stay in her costume all day.

I hope you are feeling a little better today.
post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
Well, the bigger competition was yesterday. I'm exhausted, but it was better than last time. We spent some hours in our car. DD laid down on the back seat with a blanket and pillow, and I read to her for a while. It made a huge difference.

I'll post more as I can - I'm tired and way, way behind on housework. I'm still having very mix-up feelings about the experience.
post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by enkmom
I REALLY REALLY hate the little winks and smiles that go along with it...
Oh, I saw SO much of that! On dancers from 6 yr olds to 10-12 yr olds, and teens too.

I saw one young (5-7yrs?) team that had bellies covered only by fringe (and shorts on), doing the winking and open-mouth expressions, and doing a sort of arch and contract with their backs and spines. Between the amount of skin they were showing, and the expressions on their faces, the dance move came off as pelvic thrusts. My jaw dropped!

(See, this is where I think you have to keep in mind ALL the factors at play - the dance moves themselves, the costumes, the amount of make-up, the setting [a stage in an auditorium is a MUCH different feel than the gym floor], the expressions on the dancer's faces, the prevailing culture [I live in a conservative area], even the words in the music - to find ways to do popular dance moves without sexing up these children!)

And yet, I also saw some really fine dancing! But I don't think the rest of it was worth it to see the few remarkable dances, either for me or for dd.

Yes, I think I want dd to quit the team thing for a while, and/or I want to start some classes for homeschoolers in my area. And I think dd doesn't want to be in that kind of event again. I need to sit down with her and really listen to what she has to say.

I know she loves the feeling of being on stage. We have some performance opportunities (for much smaller audiences, I think) through our church and the homeschooling groups we are part of. I think I'll encourage her to perform at these venues and see how she feels afterward (as opposed to how she felt during/after the recent competitions).
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Preteens and Teens
This thread is locked  
Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Ages and Stages › Preteens and Teens › Another competition Saturday, was: Pre-Teen Dance Instruction and Competition Issues