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Nutrition/Immunology 101. Sticky please. - Page 9  

post #161 of 1098
Yay!! OT sorta (well "was" topic) - my hub just came hope with whole wheat sour dough bread!! Randomly!! This is a guy that loves white bread, lol, but tries.. He did that with something else the other day (I learned on MDC that something was very good to use and he came home with it). Weird! Is he awesome or what??!

Jlpolzin, that's AWESOME that your migraines are gone. Good riddance to them. Pregnancy (and a change in diet) does wacky things to the body..
post #162 of 1098
Thread Starter 
OM I think the chook poo has selenium, becuase the feed has selenium added. Also depending on what grain they feed chooks, if it comes from Oz it has good levels of selenium, last time I asked....

Maybe with all the seaweed and stuff you're using, your garden might have enough selenium?

I try not to get a figurative headache on it all. I sort of let it all percolate, and somewhere it falls into place...

jlpolzin, that would indicate that part of your migraine is hormonal....
post #163 of 1098
Thread Starter 
post #164 of 1098
Thread Starter 
SunshineStarr did he like the sourdough? I love it, but some people consider it an acquired taste...
post #165 of 1098
I still haven't acquired the taste for sourdough. LOL.
post #166 of 1098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
SunshineStarr did he like the sourdough? I love it, but some people consider it an acquired taste...
Thanks for reposting that beautiful garden! It looks like the Garden of Eden or something!
We both love the sourdough. Is any of the good stuff lost through toasting? (please don't say yes, please don't say yes)
post #167 of 1098
Thread Starter 
No. I love it toasted. and I put garlic/parsley butter on it... or a home made almond/brazil nut butter. schlerp!


Okay, I think I'm well enough to go away so I'll be back my Monday. .... which is... your Sunday...
post #168 of 1098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
No. I love it toasted. and I put garlic/parsley butter on it... or a home made almond/brazil nut butter. schlerp!


Okay, I think I'm well enough to go away so I'll be back my Monday. .... which is... your Sunday...
Have a great time, MT!!!
post #169 of 1098
Thread Starter 
I will.

How about someone, in my absense look up silica, biochemical functions, symptoms of deficiency and food sources... and put up a full analysis of that.

And then maybe chromium, or whatever takes your fancy. You'll probably find stuff I don't even know.
post #170 of 1098
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlleoiseau
I'm finding the magnesium and gestational diabetes discussion interesting. I was diagnosed with gd.

According to John Marion Ellis a deficiency in B6 shows up in a preggo woman as carpal tunnel syndrome, legs cramps, diabetes of pregnancy, muscle spasma in legs and feet.

Deficiency of B6 distorts mineral, hormone and fluid balance.
post #171 of 1098
: :

Wow. I just sat here and read through all of this, taking notes (as best as I could with my son sleeping in my arm/lap!), with all sorts of things to ask my midwife about when she comes to our place for our next postpartum appointment. And this is the exact thing I was looking for when I came to this forum, too.

Someone a few pages back mentioned wanting to garden but living in an apartment... I'm in that situation, too, and I love the book "The Apartment Gardener." It's got lots of info for making the best garden possible in an apartment situation, really good book. It's older, but still good...I bought it for $1 on Amazon.
post #172 of 1098
Thanks everyone for the migraine thoughts. I'm doing some reading on magnesium. I think I get a lot of it, based on stuff I like and usually eat but will start keeping close tabs. Also, I can't find any way they are related to what I am eating so I think it must be something I'm NOT eating. Maybe I'll keep a food diary.
I found with my first two pregnancies I did not ever have one. With this last pregnancy I had some real winners! I had always thought they were hormonal since pregnancy stopped them but that didn't hold true this time. I can only think I'm missing some key nutrient.
I'll let you all know if I find anything of interest.
Suzy
post #173 of 1098
Ok, here's a "I'm listening to my body" test...

Everytime I up my selenium, my pits get stinky.

Does that mean I'm detoxing?
post #174 of 1098
Ok, I found that magnesium deficiency is considered a cause for chronic fatigue, muscle aches, migraines and a host of other issues my mother suffers from. I only have migraines, not all the other stuff but I don't want to end up with them in 10 years. I found a recommended dose of 400 mg 2x per day of magnesium citrate.
Does that sound ok?
Thanks all! I appreciate your wisdom. I'll let you know how my experiment goes.
Suzy
post #175 of 1098
One of the best foods for the immune system: Raw (grass fed) Milk

All of the problems that are automatically brought up when milk is mentioned: allergies, mucus issues, interference with calcium absorption, etc. etc. are mostly attributable to pasteurized milk only.

Raw milk is to pasteurized milk as breastmilk is to formula. Raw milk contains beneficial digestive enzymes, amino acids, vitamins and immunoglobulins... all of which are destroyed by heat.

Find out why....

Quote:
The Health Benefits of Raw Milk from Grass Fed Animals
by Ron Schmid, N.D.

Some of the factors transmitted by milk are thermo-labile (sensitive to heat). Though their destruction may not produce death, their deficiency may prevent proper development of the child. This may show in the development of an inadequate skeleton or a decrease in resistance….delay in development of osseous centers is noted more frequently in those children…receiving heat treated milk. It is particularly absent from the raw milk fed children….I am basing this discussion on analysis of 150 children whose parents have consulted me because of respiratory allergies….many other workers…have also shown that treating milk by heating interferes with its proper assimilation and nutritional qualities….The best milk from a nutritional standpoint is raw milk….Heat-treating milk interferes with calcium metabolism causing…delay in bone age, and small bones….The interference with calcium metabolism as shown in the bones in only a physiological index of disturbed metabolism throughout the body.'

Is milk a 'natural' food for humans?

Not everyone agrees that milk should be part of the human diet after infancy. The argument is made that just as all other species drink no milk after weaning, neither should we, especially that of another species. Many adults have difficulty digesting pasteurized milk, and allergies to pasteurized milk products are common. While this lends credence to arguments against milk, such reactions are usually due to pasteurization itself and the poor quality of conventionally produced milk and milk products. While for some individuals genetic influences play a role, for most the body's reaction to milk depends largely upon the quality and state of the particular milk used.

[Jane note: milk allergies are to the casein protein micelles, which are denatured, or jam packed tightly together as a result of heat pasteurization treatment and thus more difficult to digest. And goat's milk proteins, more easily digestible still, as their size is smaller and differently structured... ask me if you want reference for this. My DS can only do goat's yogurt, in which also, the lactic acid bacteria in yogurt pre-digest the proteins.]

The Swiss of the Loetschental Valley were one of the few native groups Weston Price studied that used milk (the others were certain African tribes, including the Masai). The Valley people used raw, whole milk, both fresh and cultured, cheese, and butter, all in substantial quantities. The milk was from healthy, grass-fed animals and was used unpasteurized and unhomogenized. Such foods clearly can play a major role in a health-building program for the individual genetically enabled to utilize these foods well. They are a rich source of fat-soluble vitamins A and D and other crucial nutrients in short supply in diets lacking in high quality animal fats. (Contrary to popular opinion, liberal amounts of animal fats, particularly from grass-fed animals, are essential for good health and resistance to disease.)

More: http://www.drrons.com/benefits-raw-milk.htm
Quote:
Raw Milk - History, Health Benefits and Distortions
by Ron Schmid, N.D.

Distillery Dairies, Pasteurization, Certified Raw Milk and the Milk Cure

“Raw milk cures many diseases.” [viii] - J.E. Crewe, MD, The Mayo Foundation, January, 1929

The War of 1812 with England resulted in the permanent cutting off of the whiskey supply America procured from the British West Indies. As a result, the domestic liquor industry was born, and by 1814, grain distilleries began to spring up in the cities as well as the country. Distillery owners then began housing cows next to the distilleries and feeding hot slop, the waste product of whiskey making, directly to the animals as it poured off the stills. Thus was born the slop or swill milk system.

Slop is of little value in fattening cattle; it is unnatural food for them, and makes them diseased and emaciated. But when slop was plentifully supplied, cows yielded an abundance of milk. Diseased cows were milked in an unsanitary manner. The individuals doing the milking were often dirty, sick or both. Milk pails and other equipment were usually dirty. Such milk sometimes led to disease. By the last decade of the nineteenth century, a growing number of influential people throughout the country believed that American cities had a milk problem.

Pasteurization, begun around 1900, was a solution of sorts. The other was the certified raw milk movement, which insisted on clean, fresh milk from healthy, grassfed animals. Henry Coit, a medical doctor, was the founder of the first Medical Milk Commission and the certified milk movement. Physicians in cities throughout the country considered raw milk essential in the treatment of their patients; they worked together to certify dairies for the production of clean raw milk. This resulted in the availability of safe raw milk from regulated dairies. Initially, from around 1890 to 1910, the movements for certified raw milk and pasteurization coexisted and in many ways even complemented one another. From about 1910 until the 1940s, an uneasy truce existed. Certified raw milk was available for those who wanted it, while the influence of the pasteurization lobby saw to it that most states and municipalities adopted regulations that required all milk other than certified milk be pasteurized. The end of this truce (detailed below)has led to the subsequent outlawing of all retail sales of raw milk in most states and even of on-farm sales in many.

Many people today find it surprising that support of raw milk among physicians was widespread in the first half of the twentieth century. The use of raw milk as a treatment of chronic disease has a rich and well-documented history. In 1929, J. E. Crewe, MD, one of the founders of the Mayo Foundation, the forerunner of the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, published an article entitled “Raw Milk Cures Many Diseases.” Here are excerpts from Dr. Crewe’s account of his experience with raw milk:

“For fifteen years the writer has employed the certified milk treatment in various diseases and during the past ten he had a small sanitarium devoted principally to this treatment. The results obtained in various types of disease have been so uniformly excellent that one’s conception of disease and its alleviation is necessarily changed.” [ix]

The Health Benefits of Raw Milk

“It is very difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it.” – Upton Sinclair

During the early days of pasteurization, researchers showed that scurvy often resulted when pasteurized milk replaced raw milk in the diet of infants. “Pasteurized milk gradually induces infantile scurvy, unless antiscorbutic diet is given in addition,” Alfred Hess wrote in the American Journal of Diseases of Children in 1916. “This disorder quickly yielded to the substitution of raw for pasteurized milk.”[x]

Thus from the earliest days of pasteurization scientists demonstrated that heat treatment had a profound effect on the health-giving properties of milk. A loss of nutrients other than vitamin C was demonstrated in subsequent studies. One article, “The effect of heat on the solubility of the calcium and phosphorus compounds in milk,” was published in 1925 in the Journal of Biological Chemistry. The author’s conclusion was unequivocal: “There is a loss in the soluble calcium and phosphorus contents of the milk due to heat and the amount of the loss depends upon the temperature to which the milk has been heated.”[xi] Other studies showed that pasteurization caused the loss of significant percentages of many of the B vitamins and nearly all of the enzymes in milk.[xii]

Further compelling evidence of the superiority of raw milk appeared in The Lancet in 1937, in a report on the work of the medical officer to a group of orphanages. The physician gave pasteurized milk for five years to one group of 750 boys, while giving raw milk to another group of 750. All other conditions were alike except for this one item. During that period, 14 cases of tuberculosis occurred in the boys fed pasteurized milk, while only one occurred in those fed raw milk. The article also discusses the dental health of the children brought up on raw milk: “Dr. Evelyn Sprawson of the London Hospital has recently stated that in certain institutions children who were brought up on raw milk (as opposed to pasteurized milk) had perfect teeth and no decay. The result is so striking and unusual that it will undoubtedly be made the subject of further inquiry.”[xiii] [xiv] Instead, the report has been conveniently forgotten.

Very little research was done after about 1950 on the relative nutrient content of raw versus pasteurized milk. The move toward universal pasteurization was in full swing and interest in raw milk was waning in agricultural colleges increasingly supported by dairy industry and agribusiness funding. One study, however, published in the Journal of Dairy Research in 1967, confirms much of the earlier research. The authors were interested in finding ways to preserve more of the vitamin content of milk during processing and they made a number of interesting comments.

“On leaving the udder, milk quickly takes up oxygen from the air,” they wrote. “During subsequent processing and distribution, this dissolved oxygen promotes oxidative changes that degrade several important nutrients in the milk. Thus, though potentially milk could supply an important fraction of the daily dietary requirement for vitamin C, average market milk supplies relatively little. Similarly with vitamin B12, much of which may be destroyed during heat processing. Fresh milk is also in fact a rich source of a form of folic acid. Like vitamin B12 and ascorbic acid, the folic acid in milk is unstable to heating.” How ironic to see these statements in an industry publication some 50 years after pasteurization had been presented by the milk industry as a purely beneficial process that did not substantially alter the nutritional value of milk.

More: http://www.drrons.com/raw-milk-veritas.htm

Quote:
SUPPLEMENTAL REPORT IN FAVOR OF RAW MILK

The report was compiled and condensed by the International Medical Expert on raw and pasteurized milk, Dr. William Cambell Douglas, Jr. M.D., author of the definitive book analysis of scientific and clinical study on milk, The Milk Book; and the proponent and leading present-day empirical scientist on the positive effects of raw milk products on humans, Aajonus Vonderplanitz, author of We Want To Live, Vol.1 Out of the Grips of Disease and Death, and Vol.2, Healthfully, the Facts.

Addressing the Board’s concerns regarding raw milk was the intent of this Supplemental Report that encompasses:
Health Risks From Drinking Pasteurized Milk;
Bacterial Risks from Drinking Pasteurized Milk,
Infant Death Syndrome and Colic from Feeding Pasteurized Milk,
Disease and Disease-Risks from Drinking Pasteurized Milk,
Health Benefits and Risks from Drinking Raw Milk,
Bacterial, Viral & Parasitical Resistant and Nutritive Value of Raw Milk,
Medical Milk Therapy - Prevention and Reversal of Disease from Drinking Raw Milk,
Infant Raw Milk Safety and Health Benefits,
Raw Milk Safety and Health Benefits In General,
Immune Raw Milk Therapy Benefits,
Raw Milk As a Preservative,
Nutritive Value of Raw Milk vs. Pasteurized Milk,
History of Movement Against Raw Milk;
The Creation of the Assumption That Pasteurized Milk Is Safer Than Raw Milk,
National Unsubstantiated Claims Against Raw Milk,
Chronology of Unsubstantiated Claims Against Raw Milk Produced in California,
How Credible is the Center for Disease Control regarding Raw Milk?,
Bacteriology, and Conclusions and Recommendations.

See full expert report here:
http://www.karlloren.com/aajonus/p15.htm
Where to get raw milk and more info:

www.realmilk.org


Quote:
Besides destroying part of the vitamin C contained in raw milk and encouraging growth of harmful bacteria, pasteurization turns the sugar of milk, known as lactose, into beta-lactose — which is far more soluble and therefore more rapidly absorbed in the system, with the result that the child soon becomes hungry again.

Probably pasteurization's worst offence is that it makes insoluable the major part of the calcium contained in raw milk. This frequently leads to rickets, bad teeth, and nervous troubles, for sufficient calcium content is vital to children; and with the loss of phosphorus also associated with calcium, bone and breain formation suffer serious setbacks.

Pasteurization also destroys 20 percent of the iodine present in raw milk, causes constipation and generally takes from the milk its most vital qualities.

http://www.realmilk.com/rawvpasteur.html
http://www.realmilk.com/abstractsmilk.html
http://www.mercola.com/2004/apr/24/raw_milk.htm
For more discussion on the value of grass fed dairy, read the thread I started in Dental, "Curing Cavities with Nutrition"
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=399989

which discusses the X Factor, only present in grass fed dairy, that enhances mineral absorption. Fortunately it is not destroyed by pasteurization, however, there are few dairies pasturing/hay feeding their animals exclusively now. There is great incentive for raw dairies to follow this practice b/c quite simply grass fed cows do not get sick ... they are eating their natural diet.

Adding another great link on raw milk:
http://www.price-pottenger.org/health_tips.htm
post #176 of 1098
I started researching raw milk last summer - fortunately our local HFS carries Organic Pastures ... we love it! (Well, I'm not big on drinking it straight, but never have been big on drinking any milk straight. ) Ds#1 and dh LOVE it, and I mix it in my morning smoothie, with both boys drink too. We do still buy pasteurized milk (either organic or alta dena) for yogurt and cooking, but 99% of any milk we drink is raw.

Organic Pastures also sells raw colostrum and also what they call "super leche" which is colostrum towards the end as it is getting milkier. The superleche comes in chocolate which we like to drink.

Organic Pastures They aren't too far from us and we thought it would be fun to take a trip up there this next summer - from the sounds of it they do tours.
post #177 of 1098
Holey moley. I don’t think I have a snowball’s chance of catching up on this thread.

So many consequences of magnesium deficiency. The deficiency will come back to haunt you if you don’t fix it, that’s for sure as I sit here hypothyroid (so that’s another outcome for the list).

IV magnesium: I tried to convince my doc to hook me up and sock it to me. No takers. Later I realized that it wouldn’t work anyway. Your blood cells regenerate something like every 4 months. At any given moment, you have cells dying and new ones being born. At each of those “births” you need magnesium available for your cells. An IV wouldn’t work because you would pee a lot of it out. The key to a magnesium deficiency is slow and steady diligence.

I take an MCHC calcium product that contains magnesium glycinate. I take 220 mg a day in addition to dietary intake, but I will be upping that soon because I have had a lot of magnesium cravings lately. I take a higher relative dose of calcium right now as part of a therapy to reduce the uranium in my body. Do I sound crazy yet?

Magnesium citrate is good. I take Mg glycinate. I’ve heard good things about Mg malate as well.

I agree with MT on using diet to fix all of this, but if you have a deficiency, I don’t think supplementation is a bad thing. If it speeds your recovery, that’s great. I am definitely supplementing.


My little wonders – I live in the Sierras just north east of Bakersfield and I contemplate a field trip to Organic Pastures regularly.


Planta -- before getting pregnant, have your mineral levels checked with that red blood cell test I linked to or consider a hair analysis though it is not as effective for all of the minerals. And that same company does a blood spot amino acid test. Living on nuts and seeds I would be interested to see your amino acid profile. I need to eat 100 grams of protein a day. On my low days I eat about 75 grams and I don't feel like I've had enough. A couple of weeks ago I ate 2-3/4 pound hamburgers and felt very satisfied and not at all stuffed. This is not to gross you out, it's just to say I cannot imagine living on nuts and seeds as my protein. I've never gone raw, but I was nearly a vegan for a while and a vegetarian for some years.

These dietary choices debates get old after a while because there are empirical ways to test whether the diet is working for you. Whoever that was in the link that I did not follow who is 40-something and does or does not look emaciated could just get bloodwork done and post it as a trophy on her website.

Amanda
post #178 of 1098
Oh, I forgot to add some rules of thumb for supplements:

take mineral supplements with food because your digestive system is working well. You will absorb more. I don't know if it's best to take them before, during, or after. I try to take mine during, but I'm just lucky to remember them. The other thing is to spread your dose throughout the day for better absorption.

B vitamins for some reason have been found to be better absorbed on an empty stomach. If you have malabsorption issues, there is a sublingual or nasal preparation option.
post #179 of 1098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gale Force
Planta -- before getting pregnant, have your mineral levels checked with that red blood cell test I linked to or consider a hair analysis though it is not as effective for all of the minerals. And that same company does a blood spot amino acid test. Living on nuts and seeds I would be interested to see your amino acid profile. I need to eat 100 grams of protein a day. On my low days I eat about 75 grams and I don't feel like I've had enough. A couple of weeks ago I ate 2-3/4 pound hamburgers and felt very satisfied and not at all stuffed. This is not to gross you out, it's just to say I cannot imagine living on nuts and seeds as my protein. I've never gone raw, but I was nearly a vegan for a while and a vegetarian for some years.

These dietary choices debates get old after a while because there are empirical ways to test whether the diet is working for you. Whoever that was in the link that I did not follow who is 40-something and does or does not look emaciated could just get bloodwork done and post it as a trophy on her website.
Thank you for your concern - I understand it because I'm coming from the same place.
The big irony is that there is so much sickness all around that is mainly due to the standard diet (even accepted by the standard medical community) and noone makes a big fuss, but when someone chooses something like the raw diet everybody rushes to say how unhealthy it is.
There is very much to talk about these issues - protein, minerals, etc, but here people will say that I'm pushing my crazy idea for no rational reason (even though I've done research and thinking on it for almost 2 years).
As for empirical tests - yes. What I can see for myself is more than I could hope for in the way of proof. Pity I can't convince anyone else (actually a few people started to eat more raw because of me).
Just one observation for you: as you see with the vaxes, there can be grave mistakes made in the name of science, so also in the dietary field we have to take any mainstream propaganda with a grain of salt.
post #180 of 1098
This may be a silly question, but I do not know and should know: Does the amount of water to juice/milk ratio for toddlers/young children affect their overall nutrition/immunology?

How much better for you are fresh squeezed fruit juices, vs. bottled juice? Is it worth purchasing a juicer or doing it the old fashioned way?
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