NT mamas, & all mamas... cod liver oil in pregnancy? - Page 6

[cfiddlinmama]

This thread rocks! I just wanted to add that I (and my kids) take the Quantum brand high vit. from Radiant Life and it's great! I was so freaked out by the thought of taking CLO. I just take it straight off the spoon and so do my kids! It's not bad at all. I have a harder time eating butter straight! (I can't afford butter oil so I'm eating a ton of butter instead!) My mom uses a shot glass with water, poors the CLO on top and shoots it. She says the last thing in the mouth is water! I felt like I wasted a lot of CLO this way though. My kids always want more (esp my 14 mo old!)

Question though: I've been taking the recommended 1/2 teasp. (on the bottle) I'm pretty much EBF and trying to reverse tooth decay. Should I up my dose? I was worried about overloading on A&D.....

PS your list of ok butter is wonderful. I was so glad to see Trader Joe's Org. cultured on the list! Yay!

[jessicaSAR]

Thanks Jane S and Firefaery for all the info. I can definitely add a few brazil nuts and daily greens to the WAP list. I have never heard of liver tablets, but that sounds like a good idea. I have yet to figure out where I am supposed to get enough liver to eat 8oz per week (a quarter cow from our local farm lasts us about 6 months).

[Panserbjorne]

I can't remember where in CT you are, but there's a farm in Falls Village that sells grass fed beef and you can buy liver by the pound. You can also get (as Jane said) dessicated liver tablets. Designs for Health has a great one. Kinda pricey but well worth it considering what you are NOT putting into your body (fillers, toxins etc.)

[cobluegirl]

I think I will have to go with the liver tablets...I don't like liver.....ewww....lol

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by cobluegirl

I think I will have to go with the liver tablets...I don't like liver.....ewww....lol

Eat Fat Lose Fat also recommends Solgar and Carlson's desiccated liver supplments but not sure how they are raised.

www.drrons.com has a lot of grass fed organ meat tablets on his site.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by firefaery

I question that because 2 brazil nuts give you your RDA of selenium-you don't want to go overboard.

More on selenium in MT's Nutrition/Immunology 101. I think she would say that the RDA is low (it's under 100mcg I think.)

[jessicaSAR]

Originally Posted by firefaery

I can't remember where in CT you are, but there's a farm in Falls Village that sells grass fed beef and you can buy liver by the pound. You can also get (as Jane said) dessicated liver tablets. Designs for Health has a great one. Kinda pricey but well worth it considering what you are NOT putting into your body (fillers, toxins etc.)

What's the name of the farm in Falls Village. I have been getting beef from Herondale farm just across the border in NY (we used to live in Millbrook NY), and I just emailed him about the availability of additional organ meats. But, if he does not have any I will try this farm. I expect I will also have to rely on a few liver tablets. I am hoping the morning sickness will be much better now that I am no longer vegetarian, and eating much more protein and fat, but it still might be hard to eat enough liver.

[Panserbjorne]

I don't mean to say that you can't have more than 2 brazil nuts a day-and RDA's are terribly off the mark for many reasons, but IIRC the powder I'm talking about would have you getting around 18 a day. I showed it to anouther nutritionist and she had the same reaction as I did. Too much selenium. And long term that can be problematic.

Jessica-I believe it's White Hollow Farm-I'll have to check.

[Gale Force]

Hi firefaery! I've been thinking about you a lot in the last six weeks. I hope you are all well. When I read that you were moving just before having a baby, I just about went bananas just thinking about it.

[Panserbjorne]

Hey Amanda! Yeah, it was awful for many reasons...but now I have a squishy baby! I need to talk to you soon. I'll try to remember to pm you..

[Gale Force]

If you have a picture of that squishy baby, I would love to see one.

[cobluegirl]

WOW Firefaery...Congrats!!! you are already posting..hehe

[Just_Isabel]

I'm loving this thread, just read the whole thing.
So here is a .

[beachbuminthecity]

[QUOTE=JaneS;4598449]CLO as a necessary supplement was common many years ago. My own parents ate (forced to eat as children!) liver and took CLO in orange juice every morning as a matter of course, everyone did b/c that was the prescription to be healthy. It was the Flintstones vitamins of its day.[quote]

Wow, JaneS in your quote above just turned on a light. My parents fed me the same thing except to CLO. I moved out went I was 18 and got married at 21, well at 21 I took birth control pills for 8 months then stopped. I believe that not eating like I was taught and the BCP's started my health delema. Well I started getting acne at that point. Prior to that had one zit a month durning that time of the month. Well 21 years later I have overgrowth candida and hyprothyroid (which my mom has too--hypo). I am finally changing my diet to be like the NT way. I am waiting for my kefir grains, I am so excited. I believe that this kefir is going to make a huge difference in my health. Anyway, just thought I would share that thought. Oh yeah one more thing. My mom's mom is 94(maybe older) and has all her own teeth, no health problems except that she is showing signs of demetica(spllg?), she lived in brooklyn and grew her own veggies (alot of dandelion) and always ate healthy. She is Ital. and ate alot of garlic. I don't think she ate alot of sweets. Anyway, like I said before just sharing some thoughts out loud.

[beachbuminthecity]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

So well said. I went through hell and back and I am starting to realize that it did have a purpose. I am lucky in that I hit the wall hard with my first child and that I apparently paid much more than he did. But then he did have a terrible infancy that I don't think he's over. His health goes in cycles but it's generally much better than I would predict given my own problems, but I hit the wall in pregnancy and so began to make changes then. I know that his health will be much better moving forward because of my knowledge. And then there is my husband's asthma and my thyroid -- it's all getting much better.

Hey Gale Force,

When did you change your diet and what is your regimen. What do you take and do extra for you thyroid. Are you hypo or hyper. I am trying to do the Nourshing Traditions way. I am waiting on my kefir grains which I believe will make a huge difference. I haven't kept up on cod liver oil which I just started back in again. I do have overgrownth candida issues I am trying to deal with. I currently take probiotics. I take cal/mag fizz, have you or anyone else used this and what is everyones opinion on it. I try to remember to take digestive enzymes. I need to make myself a schedule so I take everything I should everyday. I am suprised I remember my thyroid meds. Oh ya I just switched from synthyroid to armour. Wow the switch was strange physically, but I think it is adjusted and I feel it works better than the synthyroid. Anyway sorry for the rambling.

[Lady Lilya]

Originally Posted by honeybeedreams

you are correct. Palmitate is the natural form, retinol is the supplimental form of A. both are fat soluable and build up in the fatty tissues of the body however. (both do need some conversion in the body to become usable by humans) beta carotene is from plants and is converted in the liver in to vitamin A and is water soluable and so does not build up in the body, we secrete what we don't need.

I have 2 bottles of Vitamin A. Both say they are in the form of "retinol palmitate." Is that safe while pregnant?

My OB said she tells everyone not to take it in any form.

I miss it. I feel the lack of it since she told me to stop.

Originally Posted by provocativa

This question has been burning in my mind! I see my midwife tonight and will ask her. Interestingly, I have been demonstrating some signs of vit. A deficiency this pregnancy- extreme dandruff, for one. Yuck.

Me too, among other things. I think I have always been deficient in A. I only started taking it a few months ago, but I noticed a clear difference in soreness/droopiness of the eyes, skin issues, etc.

Originally Posted by JaneS

Nope...retinol (retinal and retinoic acid) is the scientific name for natural vitamin A found in animal foods such as organ meats and properly grass fed dairy and pastured chicken eggs.

Retinyl Palmitate is synthetic and should be avoided as a supplement. Ditto Retinyl Acetate. These are the chief supplements used in research studies and again, they are synthetic.

Retinoids are synthetic, aka Accutane and cis-retinoic acid the Retin-A skin cream. Shown in studies to be seriously toxic during pregnancy.

Beta carotene is converted to vitamin A in the intestines (not the liver, it is stored in the liver)...it is converted by intestinal bacteria. Meaning there are many more conditions where people do not optimally convert it to Vitamin A: long term diarrhea, malabsorption issues, children, etc. The recent report now is a 12:1 ratio, meaning 12 units of beta carotene must be eaten to produce 1 unit of vitamin A, assuming optimal conversion.

Jane, both of my bottles say "retinol palmitate" very specifically. I remember that the reason I bought them was because they didn't have soy or gelatin or sugar. They are made by Solgar.

I just ordered some CLO because I definitely don't want the deficiency that I believe I have, to be a problem for the development of the baby.

------

Another question....what were the dangerous levels that were found in the studies? For the first 2 months of pregnancy I continued taking my vitamin A (retinol palmitate) 5,000 IU along with my usual supplements. I wasn't good about taking it EVERY day, but probably half of the time. Is that dangerous?

I am still not sure if this is the dangerous one or not, because it says both retinol and palmitate.

------

Also, I was observing you ladies talk about thyroid. I, too, am curious about supplements for hypothyroidism, since it is a common problem (about 20% of women, I read). I was diagnosed with it about 6 years ago, just based on TSH levels, but had no symptoms. In fact, I leaned the opposite way with symptoms. I took synthroid for 6 months but felt out of balance, so I stopped. My doctor assured me that if I stopped I would by now be 300lbs (I am 121lbs at 3 months pregnant, I was 117lbs before), depressed, feel cold all the time, and have such a low energy level that I would probably be dead. I feel fine. Never better, in fact, than I was just before I conceived. But, I wonder now if the test results were really suggesting a tendency for a deficiency.

I just read last night about the test of painting your arm with iodine tincture. I will have to get some next time I go out. If I find a thyroid issue, what is the best nutritional way to address it?

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Lady Lilya

I have 2 bottles of Vitamin A. Both say they are in the form of "retinol palmitate." Is that safe while pregnant?

No, IMO. Or only at small doses according to mainstream medicine.

Originally Posted by Lady Lilya

My OB said she tells everyone not to take it in any form.

Then she has not studied this herself and is just parroting the falsely held belief based on studies of only synthetic A being teratogenic.

Originally Posted by Lady Lilya

I miss it. I feel the lack of it since she told me to stop.

Me too, among other things. I think I have always been deficient in A. I only started taking it a few months ago, but I noticed a clear difference in soreness/droopiness of the eyes, skin issues, etc.

Jane, both of my bottles say "retinol palmitate" very specifically. I remember that the reason I bought them was because they didn't have soy or gelatin or sugar. They are made by Solgar.

I just ordered some CLO because I definitely don't want the deficiency that I believe I have, to be a problem for the development of the baby.

Yes, the natural food form of nutrients is always better. In addition to the fact that vitamin D needs increase as A is increased in diet as well and vice versa. They are necessary to include in the diet together. What did you order for CLO and how much are you planning to take? Are there other excellent forms of natural A (and D) in your diet: wild seafoods, organ meats, raw grass fed dairy, pastured eggs?

Originally Posted by Lady Lilya

Another question....what were the dangerous levels that were found in the studies? For the first 2 months of pregnancy I continued taking my vitamin A (retinol palmitate) 5,000 IU along with my usual supplements. I wasn't good about taking it EVERY day, but probably half of the time. Is that dangerous?

I am still not sure if this is the dangerous one or not, because it says both retinol and palmitate.

I believe that it is 10,000 IU of synthetic A (retinol palmitate) that is the cut off for pregnant women based on studies showing teratogenity above that amount. Again, mainstream falsely lumps that in as the amount for all forms of A.

Originally Posted by Lady Lilya

Also, I was observing you ladies talk about thyroid. I, too, am curious about supplements for hypothyroidism, since it is a common problem (about 20% of women, I read). I was diagnosed with it about 6 years ago, just based on TSH levels, but had no symptoms. In fact, I leaned the opposite way with symptoms. I took synthroid for 6 months but felt out of balance, so I stopped. My doctor assured me that if I stopped I would by now be 300lbs (I am 121lbs at 3 months pregnant, I was 117lbs before), depressed, feel cold all the time, and have such a low energy level that I would probably be dead. I feel fine. Never better, in fact, than I was just before I conceived. But, I wonder now if the test results were really suggesting a tendency for a deficiency.

I just read last night about the test of painting your arm with iodine tincture. I will have to get some next time I go out. If I find a thyroid issue, what is the best nutritional way to address it?

I would get your TSH level tested again pronto. I believe the new number that is desirable is anything under 2. But most drs do not know this standard.

Low iodine can greatly effect active form of thyroid (T3) in the body. It cannot be made without iodine and also the amino acid tyrosine. Check your iodine levels and make sure you are eating enough quality protein, pg women need more (ie. Brewer Diet, WAPF Pg/BF diet)...that would be the first step. If your TSH is high, you may have to consider a thyroid supplement and possibly the Armour natural form would be a better choice than Synthroid b/c it will contain T3 as well as T4.

Also consider first waking body temp as a way to test thyroid (Wilson's Low Temperature Syndrome) although not sure of accuracy in pg women.

[MyLittleWonders]

Question - we are just starting the Feingold Program and need to switch the flavor of our CLO. We were doing Blue Ice Artic Mint, but can't have the wintergreen they use. We are basically down to lemon or plain flavor options, at least for the next 4-6 weeks (after that, we can reintroduce things like oranges and/or wintergreen to test reactions). So, there aren't many options in their "supplement guides" and of their choices, I'm not sure which ones contain naturally occuring A & D. For now, I bought the Twinlabs plain flavor, but I don't think I'm going to be able to get anyone else to take it except me (and that's with a chaser of something - and we can't chase it with orange juice; just pineapple or pear). So ... any advice or knowledge on Nordic Naturals or Kirkland Labs CLO? I tried looking for a lemon flavored Twinlabs CLO, but they don't seem to make one. Any suggestions would be helpful! I know we could probably just for-go it for the next month, but if we are going to go through some detox, I would like to counter balance that with some good omega 3's and A & D going in, yk?

[Lady Lilya]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Yes, the natural food form of nutrients is always better. In addition to the fact that vitamin D needs increase as A is increased in diet as well and vice versa. They are necessary to include in the diet together. What did you order for CLO and how much are you planning to take? Are there other excellent forms of natural A (and D) in your diet: wild seafoods, organ meats, raw grass fed dairy, pastured eggs?

I ordered Blue Ice, i think it was called. I read most of the ladies saying that they take 1tsp twice a day. The website said a half tsp. I hadn't really decided.

I don't eat any shellfish, but I have had fish 3-4 times during my pregnancy (happened to be salmon each time) so far. It probably wasn't wild salmon, but I wouldn't know since I didn't purchase it.

I never could eat organ meats.

I used to get grass fed dairy and meat, but now I just don't have it in me to travel as far as I have to go to get it, and carry it back on several buses over a period of hours. Local stores (still quite a hike to shop at) have horrible selection and quality of everything. When I was working in the city, I would go to Whole Foods after work and my husband would meet me there and we would carry it back together on buses. It was difficult and stressful and uncomfortable, and the other passengers would get angry at us. Even when I was getting grass fed, it was pasteurized dairy because that is all they sold in Whole Foods. I don't have a car to travel to farms to try to get raw.

We are getting (at least 80% of the time) pastured eggs. The only time we don't is when I don't need ANYTHING else and just tell my husband to walk to the corner store instead of traveling to the supermarket. I can't say I am eating the eggs with any consistency, though. Some days I have 3 eggs scrambled, and usually do that a few days in a row, and then I won't have any for a week.

So, you can see why I am thinking I am not getting enough via diet. I really think a supplement like CLO is important for me. Especially since I am also concerned with Vitamin D.

What about vegetable sources for A? I don't think I am getting anywhere near enough, but definitely SOME.

I believe that it is 10,000 IU of synthetic A (retinol palmitate) that is the cut off for pregnant women based on studies showing teratogenity above that amount. Again, mainstream falsely lumps that in as the amount for all forms of A.

I'm not going to worry about it, then. As far as I understand it, the problem is that it accumulates in your system if not used. I am pretty sure I was using it all up pretty fast at the time I was taking it, and I wasn't taking it very consistently. I probably took it less than 20 times in those 2 months.

I would get your TSH level tested again pronto. I believe the new number that is desirable is anything under 2. But most drs do not know this standard.

I am trying to avoid any blood tests. My veins are difficult, and it can take hours and many holes before they get any out. A very stressful experience and I would like to spare the baby the stress hormones.

Perhaps if I call the former doctor he can tell me what the number was. He said it was slight (when I pestered him about my lack of symptoms). I was probably borderline.

Also, my diet has radically changed since then, so I feel like the cause of it is probably gone. Before that, I ate a lot of crap. The reason I went to the doctor in the first place at that time was chronic digestive issues, which have since gone away. I will definitely try the painting test and the temperature test. I don't have any symptoms at this time that would suggest any issues with the thyroid, so I am not going to stress too much about it based on some old test when I was a wreck nutritionally.

Also, I am eating a lot of protein lately. Do you mean we get iodine from protein? I read olive oil and nuts, which I eat a lot of.

Jane, you have been infinitely helpful. Thanks a million!

[quietserena]

There was a question somewhere in this thread on sources of folic acid. Here is a thread that talks about increasing vitamins of the B group by ripening kefir.

Thought it belonged in here.

And thanks guys, this only reassures me.