NT mamas, & all mamas... cod liver oil in pregnancy? - Page 2

[Panserbjorne]

Do you know why you are anemic? Is it iron deficiency anemia? Is it a B vitamin deficiency? It could also be a low functioning liver...many things can make you anemic. It's kind of important to know why so you can fix the problem properly. My supplements are pretty much what I listed, but I'll expand a bit:
carlsons CLO
cal-mag by flora or natural vitality
garden of life perfect food
sea minerals with silver
designs for health B multi
Juice Plus
designs for health quercetin
designs for health L.glutamine
msm
nettles, rrl, lemon balm, blessed thistle
Those are what I consider to be pregnancy related. HTH

[Panserbjorne]

Oh, and dandruff can also be fungal or a boron deficiency. If the vit A doesn't help you may need to look there.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by honeybeedreams

you are correct. Palmitate is the natural form, retinol is the supplimental form of A. both are fat soluable and build up in the fatty tissues of the body however. (both do need some conversion in the body to become usable by humans) beta carotene is from plants and is converted in the liver in to vitamin A and is water soluable and so does not build up in the body, we secrete what we don't need. people with thyriod and liver disease are not able to convert beta carotene very well and should be wary of vegetarian diets. (since it's been 5 years since i works with supplements i forgot that plamitate and retinol are different, people did always want to know which was which and i had to memorize all the different chemical names for all the different natural and synthetic forms of all the vitamins! )

Nope...retinol (retinal and retinoic acid) is the scientific name for natural vitamin A found in animal foods such as organ meats and properly grass fed dairy and pastured chicken eggs.

Retinyl Palmitate is synthetic and should be avoided as a supplement. Ditto Retinyl Acetate. These are the chief supplements used in research studies and again, they are synthetic.

Retinoids are synthetic, aka Accutane and cis-retinoic acid the Retin-A skin cream. Shown in studies to be seriously toxic during pregnancy.

Beta carotene is converted to vitamin A in the intestines (not the liver, it is stored in the liver)...it is converted by intestinal bacteria. Meaning there are many more conditions where people do not optimally convert it to Vitamin A: long term diarrhea, malabsorption issues, children, etc. The recent report now is a 12:1 ratio, meaning 12 units of beta carotene must be eaten to produce 1 unit of vitamin A, assuming optimal conversion.

People eating a vegan diet are at a significant risk of vitamin A deficiency. It would take six cups of raw carrots or 20 cups of broccoli to obtain the recommended daily requirement of vitamin A per day.
Simple Facts About Vitamin A
By Randall Neustaedter OMD, LAc, CCH
http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...bout-Vitamin-A

Originally Posted by honeybeedreams

one of my sources is from a paid database.. which means i can't give you a link, becuase you need to have paid to have access, but if you want to see it you can PM me. otherwise, you can do a google search for vitamin A and pregnancy and then google will show you the scholarly articles on it (as opposed to ads) and then you can judge for yourself what looks "conservative" or "poorly designed."

Can you quote the study name and references to me please. I don't need a link, I can find on my own.

I have researched this extensively when I decided to supplement myself and DS with high vitamin cod liver oil. I looked at original research. I have never seen a toxicity study for the natural form of vitamin A.

All the studies that I have read that has shown toxicity/tetrogenicity have been the synthetic version of vitamin A.

Originally Posted by honeybeedreams

(PS i'm not sure how CLO effects length of labor... my grandma took it everyday of her life and labored with my father for 4 days until the doctor came and yanked him out with forceps! what's scoop on CLO effecting labor length?)

I do not know what this one particular cause could have been. Studies in animals have shown that vitamin A deficiency causes long labors and inability to push babies out.

CLO as a necessary supplement was common many years ago. My own parents ate (forced to eat as children!) liver and took CLO in orange juice every morning as a matter of course, everyone did b/c that was the prescription to be healthy. It was the Flintstones vitamins of its day.

Weston Price's research on native diets showed as a whole the common amount to ingest from foods was approx. 50,000 IU/day. Of course matched with vitamin D, which modern research has confirmed: vitamin D protects against vitamin A toxicity. Which leads us back to cod liver oil, good source of A and D.

(and by the way, A toxicity is reported at upwards of 100,000 IU/day for several weeks, pretty hard to get from foods.)

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Woodchuck

JaneS: I'm sorry if I missed it, but do you recommend a certain CLO?

I prefer the high vitamin versions, right now we are using Blue Ice. When I had a lot of Nordic Naturals, which is low vitamin, I supplemented with Carlson's natural vitamin A & D pills (vitamins were from cod liver oil).

Good page for sources/dosages/toxicity of A & D:

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html

[JaneS]

More cod liver oil articles of interest:

Cod Liver Oil: The Number One Superfood
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...dliveroil.html

Cod Liver Oil: The Biography of the Remedy That Changed the World
http://www.greenpasture.org/content/..._biography.pdf

[Panserbjorne]

Jane, how do you rate the taste of the blue ice? Is it kid-friendly?

[mama-a-llama]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Because Vitamin A is crucial to preventing birth defects such as cleft palate, heart defects and club foot.

I've been lurking on here for a while. So does the above mean that my 3 mo old son's heart defects could be from deficiency in me? Somehow that makes it feel like my fault, because I figured eating plenty of vegetables and taking a prenatal (Rainbow Light brand, if it matters) was enough.
Truly not trying to be snitty, just processing . . .

[Panserbjorne]

Noone's trying to make anyone feel guilty. When we know better, we do better. Undiagnosed celiac disease in me really damaged both my kids. I was told I had it, but had never heard of it and just dismissed it. It wasn't until after dd was born and she was in much worse shape than ds that I became proactive. We did testing, found out it was true and also that if I had done something before getting pg with dd she may have escaped all of her problems. It left me malnourished and unable to produce breastmilk at first.
It also wan't until later in my journey that I realized most vitamins were useless-they were either poorly synthesized and absorbed or made from synthetic sources the body doesn't recognize. I started learning what to look for and plan accordingly. I thank my lucky stars that I found mamas with great info so that the outcome of this pregnancy would be different. Also, what Jane posted doesn't necessarily mean that all heart defects are caused by a lack of vitamin A...so take it for the info that it is (no matter how tough it feels) do some more of your own research and maybe it'll give you answers, maybe it won't. But at least you can add it to your bank of knowledge so that if you feel that you need to adjust your diet or supplements next time, you can. I know it can be hard to even consider that you may have contributed to a health problem in your kids, and you may not have. Give yourself some hugs and keep yourself as informed as you can.

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Nope...retinol (retinal and retinoic acid) is the scientific name for natural vitamin A found in animal foods such as organ meats and properly grass fed dairy and pastured chicken eggs.

Retinyl Palmitate is synthetic and should be avoided as a supplement. Ditto Retinyl Acetate. These are the chief supplements used in research studies and again, they are synthetic.

Retinoids are synthetic, aka Accutane and cis-retinoic acid the Retin-A skin cream. Shown in studies to be seriously toxic during pregnancy.

Beta carotene is converted to vitamin A in the intestines (not the liver, it is stored in the liver)...it is converted by intestinal bacteria. Meaning there are many more conditions where people do not optimally convert it to Vitamin A: long term diarrhea, malabsorption issues, children, etc. The recent report now is a 12:1 ratio, meaning 12 units of beta carotene must be eaten to produce 1 unit of vitamin A, assuming optimal conversion.





Can you quote the study name and references to me please. I don't need a link, I can find on my own.

I have researched this extensively when I decided to supplement myself and DS with high vitamin cod liver oil. I looked at original research. I have never seen a toxicity study for the natural form of vitamin A.

All the studies that I have read that has shown toxicity/tetrogenicity have been the synthetic version of vitamin A.



I do not know what this one particular cause could have been. Studies in animals have shown that vitamin A deficiency causes long labors and inability to push babies out.

CLO as a necessary supplement was common many years ago. My own parents ate (forced to eat as children!) liver and took CLO in orange juice every morning as a matter of course, everyone did b/c that was the prescription to be healthy. It was the Flintstones vitamins of its day.

Weston Price's research on native diets showed as a whole the common amount to ingest from foods was approx. 50,000 IU/day. Of course matched with vitamin D, which modern research has confirmed: vitamin D protects against vitamin A toxicity. Which leads us back to cod liver oil, good source of A and D.

(and by the way, A toxicity is reported at upwards of 100,000 IU/day for several weeks, pretty hard to get from foods.)

: :

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by mama-a-llama

I've been lurking on here for a while. So does the above mean that my 3 mo old son's heart defects could be from deficiency in me? Somehow that makes it feel like my fault, because I figured eating plenty of vegetables and taking a prenatal (Rainbow Light brand, if it matters) was enough.
Truly not trying to be snitty, just processing . . .

There are many of us here asking similar questions. There are many problems in babies that are linked to the nutrition of the mother and that is a very hard thing to face learning it after the fact. There should be a whole MDC club centered around this. Make sure you and your son get a very nutrient-dense diet. That's what you can do now and you could be pleasantly surprised with the progress that he shows.

Edited to add: it's impossible to know if your diet was the cause. Adding more nutrition to your diet will help regardless of the cause of your son's condition.

Amanda

[mama-a-llama]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

Make sure you and your son get a very nutrient-dense diet. That's what you can do now and you could be pleasantly surprised with the progress that he shows.

I'm just not sure where to start. Is store bought kefir and yogurt (I usually eat Brown cow) a total waste of time? I'm not sure I can afford CLO, although that seems like a good place to start. I already spend a lot on supplements from my natural practioner, including glandulars from Standard Process--I think I saw glandulars mentioned on WAP site. Certainly can't afford butter oil--what brands of butter are best?

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by honeybeedreams

: :

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by firefaery

Jane, how do you rate the taste of the blue ice? Is it kid-friendly?

Weeeeell... I have orange and it's pretty fishy. But DS takes it in 2 oz of juice with his enzymes, minerals and acerola powder (which I just realized has maltodextrin and he should not be getting ARGH) and doesn't complain. The covered sippy probably helps b/c then he can't smell it either.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by mama-a-llama

I'm just not sure where to start. Is store bought kefir and yogurt (I usually eat Brown cow) a total waste of time? I'm not sure I can afford CLO, although that seems like a good place to start. I already spend a lot on supplements from my natural practioner, including glandulars from Standard Process--I think I saw glandulars mentioned on WAP site. Certainly can't afford butter oil--what brands of butter are best?

Homemade yogurt/kefir is by far the best bang for the buck. 24 hr yogurt contains 15 billion good bacteria per teaspoon, more than any capsule on the market.

According to last years Weston Price foundation Shopping Guide, under "Best" for butter from grass fed cows, preferably raw or cultured:

Organic Pastures raw (CA and mail order)
Kerrygold (this is widely available, at Whole Foods too but at twice the price than regular supermarkets in my area.)
Straus Family Creamery
Vermont Butter and Cheese Co.
Organic Valley cultured
Trickling Springs Creamery (PA)
Natural by Nature organic (East coast)
Traderspoint Creamery (IN)
Trader Joe's organic sweet cream
Westminster Dairy raw
Peaceful Pastures raw
Purity Farms organic ghee (Whole Foods)
Grain and Salt Society ghee
Wilderness Family Naturals ghee (great coconut oil here too)

Kerrygold cheese is pasture fed too.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by mama-a-llama

I've been lurking on here for a while. So does the above mean that my 3 mo old son's heart defects could be from deficiency in me? Somehow that makes it feel like my fault, because I figured eating plenty of vegetables and taking a prenatal (Rainbow Light brand, if it matters) was enough.
Truly not trying to be snitty, just processing . . .

Like Amanda said, we should start our own club here. It's a very very hard place to be in as a mama, I know, and still face it everyday.

I know for a fact all my DS's issues stem from me, things I could have changed (mercury fillings, antibiotics). And thought I was eating way healthy, and certainly much healthier than most. My gut was a mess and I allowed modern medicine to wreck up my immune system royally without doing enough of the right homework.

But now never again.

And truly, it's almost like knowing a wonderful little secret of good health because this knowledge is very very hard to come by... and the realization that you literally have your future health, and the health of your family, in your hands. To get this wake up call plus the tools to work with... Unbelieveably Powerful.

I have cured myself of two autoimmune conditions: interstitial cystitis and IBS. And my skin glows, used to break out. I never ever would have achieved this extent of good health had it not been for my DS's birth and the things I went through trying to heal him. In the process I discovered so much more about myself.

(DS is still struggling, the poor bunny, but we're working on it. I hope with all my might that one day I can say I've cured him completely too. One thing I can say is breastfeed as long as possible!)

[JaneS]

P.S. Carly,

I rambled on about myself and forgot to say that you absolutely cannot know for sure about your son and his heart issues. But just know in your heart that you have been given this knowledge for a reason, and perhaps then it was so that you will be able to change the future, ykwim?

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by mama-a-llama

I'm just not sure where to start. Is store bought kefir and yogurt (I usually eat Brown cow) a total waste of time? I'm not sure I can afford CLO, although that seems like a good place to start. I already spend a lot on supplements from my natural practioner, including glandulars from Standard Process--I think I saw glandulars mentioned on WAP site. Certainly can't afford butter oil--what brands of butter are best?

What supplements are you using and do you know why? What are "glandulars"? :

But there are also cheap and free ways to increase nutrients:
**prepare your grains, beans, and nuts to reduce phytic acid.
**the Kerry Gold butter JaneS mentioned is a decent price.
**ferment vegetables. It will add bacteria and vitamins to the food.
**ferment fruit juice. Same reason as vegetables.
**ferment dairy. It's cheaper than the Brown Cow yogurt. Someone here can send you kefir grains.
**forage: do you have access to wild vegetation like purslane or miner's lettuce?
**eat liver. I know I must be crazy, but you can get it for $2/pound at Whole Foods and a filling serving is 1/3 pound. That's 67 cents for an entree. How many people did I convert?
**eat bone broth regularly. It's also relatively inexpensive to buy organic soup bones. Your son will probably eat it without a problem.

[Panserbjorne]

I may be a convert...going to pick up liver from a grassfed cow for the first time tomorrow...gonna make me some liver dumplings...

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by JaneS

P.S. Carly,

I rambled on about myself and forgot to say that you absolutely cannot know for sure about your son and his heart issues. But just know in your heart that you have been given this knowledge for a reason, and perhaps then it was so that you will be able to change the future, ykwim?

So well said. I went through hell and back and I am starting to realize that it did have a purpose. I am lucky in that I hit the wall hard with my first child and that I apparently paid much more than he did. But then he did have a terrible infancy that I don't think he's over. His health goes in cycles but it's generally much better than I would predict given my own problems, but I hit the wall in pregnancy and so began to make changes then. I know that his health will be much better moving forward because of my knowledge. And then there is my husband's asthma and my thyroid -- it's all getting much better.

[Woodchuck]

butter

I love the Kerrygold butter. My NT herbalist encouraged me to use it and I'm hooked. The only thing I don't like is that I try, as much as possible, to buy locally produced food and the Kerrygold is obviously imported.

Oh, yeah, bone broth. I've got to make some of that...