Who thought it would be a good idea to let Britney Spears design toddler clothes? - Page 6

[Calidris]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

Unless . . . does anyone really know anything about how the typical pedophile operates? My entire base of knowledge on the topic comes from Law and Order: SVU. Maybe pedophiles are so into little kids they get off more on little kids looking really little kiddish. If so, maybe dressing our kids like little grown ups is their best protection????

Not too sure you can generalise about paedophiles any more than you can about any other group, some probably get off on sexualised kids, some on innocents, some on the skater look, some on the preppy look, just like people of "normal" sexualities. As many of us learned recently, some are into diapers, there is no way of knowing WHAT specifically will attract a paedophile to a particular kid and blaming the clothes is just another way of sticking your head in the sand and thinking "it can't happen to me".

[Heffernhyphen]

Originally Posted by Calidris

. . . blaming the clothes is just another way of sticking your head in the sand and thinking "it can't happen to me".

It's SO scary having a kid. As if I don't spend enough time obsessing about potential fatal diseases, head injuries from the coffee table, car wrecks, poisonous spiders, choking on grapes, falling out the bedroom window, is that a bump or a brain tumor? Now I have to worry about fashion!

Seriously, I don't worry so much about my son's wardrobe attracting attention (as I said earlier, he is GORGEOUS in a Speedo); what scares me more is his personality. Heading off topic here, but I have raised him (by example) to be incredibly friendly. He says hi to everyone he sees. He'll give a kiss or a hug to a stranger. It makes me very conflicted, because I want him to be friendly and open and loving, but I also want him to be safe.

How do we strike that balance?

[Thursday Girl]

Originally Posted by littleaugustbaby

So if a woman gets raped, it's her fault for wearing a short skirt? Because you're using the same logic.

.

it's not her fault, but it is reality. it sucks but these people ARE OUT THERE.they are out there and they are more inclined to go for women or children dressed a certain way. i mean they even interviewed pedophiles and straight for the horses mouth said that they are MORE APT (those being the key words, so it's not always) to go after a child that is dressed in a certain manner. facts of it. is it the child's fault or the parents fault??? NO because if there was n'ty little girls (or women) dressed like this THEY WOULD STILL DO IT , but you can decrease your odds. not by m,uch i suppose but you know what when it comes to MY precious daughter i will do EVERYTHING i can to protect her. so no not her fault not the parents b/c it would still happen if no one was dressed like that, but as long as people are dressed like that it's like a zebra among horses.

[joandsarah77]

jewelysmommy I agree. If you have a few kids over for a birthday say and you go to the beach you have no idea of who could be watching. If by chance a pediphile is looking ick! Who is more likly to get looked at more, depending on the pediphiles bent. The girls in the itty bitty bikini /boy in the spedo (Sorry Heffernhyphen but I think thats reality) or the kids coverd up more by a sunsuit, trunks, t-shirt etc. Sadly I think it's the less coverd kids.
I hate the thought of some sicko drooling over my kids, so if those people are around there gonna get less to drool over.

[Viola]

Originally Posted by eminer

Do people really grow up faster for lack of primary colored overall outfits?

But...but...but... I love primary colored outfits. I'd buy kid clothes for myself if they made them in my size!

[littleaugustbaby]

Originally Posted by joandsarah77

If by chance a pediphile is looking ick! Who is more likly to get looked at more, depending on the pediphiles bent. The girls in the itty bitty bikini /boy in the spedo (Sorry Heffernhyphen but I think thats reality) or the kids coverd up more by a sunsuit, trunks, t-shirt etc. Sadly I think it's the less coverd kids.

Again, crimes of a sexual nature are generally committed for a feeling of power, NOT for a feeling of sexual pleasure. Pedophiles are not looking for children wearing bikinis, they're looking for children. Period.

This line of thinking is the same line of "reasoning" that people use to justify not allowing gay scout leaders. Because people are afraid that they'll lust after helpless children.

In the majority of cases where children are sexually abused, the crime is committed by someone that the child knows - and that person is generally someone who is in a supervisory role over the child (parent, teacher, babysitter, etc.), and about 60% of rapes and sexual assualts occur within the home. As many as 80% of sex crime perpetrators have a diagnosable psychiatric disorder.

This isn't a case of someone seeing a little girl in a short skirt and thinking that it's sexy. It's a serious mental issue that goes far beyond that. I think that when people assume that their children are safter because of the way that they're dressed, then it creates a false sense of security. And I think that it's pretty alarmist to say that someone is going to be more of a target for a sex crime (or any kind of violent crime, for that matter) because of the way that they're dressed. And it just smacks of victim blaming, and it's disgusting. It really reads no differently than, "she was wearing a short skirt, she must have wanted it, so she deserved it".

It is no different, IMO, than to assume that a woman is a slut because of the way that she dresses. Which is misogynistic and ridiculous in the first place. But it gets worse when we start trying to indoctrinate little girls into that same mold, making judgement calls about them based on what they're wearing. Our society gives women enough to deal with when it comes to sexuality and body issues. We don't need to be adding more fuel to the fire.

[joandsarah77]

"she was wearing a short skirt, she must have wanted it, so she deserved it".

Never said that, never implied that, never thought that. How could an innocent child want or deserve to be the victom of a pedephile. That IMO is sick!

I guess we can't know the mind of a pedephile, but I still think giving them less to see is better. God gave clothes as a covering for a reason.

[littleaugustbaby]

Are you really trying to bring God into this?

[joandsarah77]

Sure why not Some of us here are Christians. So yer when I choose clothes God does come into it.

[Mom4tot]

Originally Posted by littleaugustbaby

Again, crimes of a sexual nature are generally committed for a feeling of power, NOT for a feeling of sexual pleasure. Pedophiles are not looking for children wearing bikinis, they're looking for children. Period.

This line of thinking is the same line of "reasoning" that people use to justify not allowing gay scout leaders. Because people are afraid that they'll lust after helpless children.

In the majority of cases where children are sexually abused, the crime is committed by someone that the child knows - and that person is generally someone who is in a supervisory role over the child (parent, teacher, babysitter, etc.), and about 60% of rapes and sexual assualts occur within the home. As many as 80% of sex crime perpetrators have a diagnosable psychiatric disorder.

This isn't a case of someone seeing a little girl in a short skirt and thinking that it's sexy. It's a serious mental issue that goes far beyond that. I think that when people assume that their children are safter because of the way that they're dressed, then it creates a false sense of security. And I think that it's pretty alarmist to say that someone is going to be more of a target for a sex crime (or any kind of violent crime, for that matter) because of the way that they're dressed. And it just smacks of victim blaming, and it's disgusting. It really reads no differently than, "she was wearing a short skirt, she must have wanted it, so she deserved it".

It is no different, IMO, than to assume that a woman is a slut because of the way that she dresses. Which is misogynistic and ridiculous in the first place. But it gets worse when we start trying to indoctrinate little girls into that same mold, making judgement calls about them based on what they're wearing. Our society gives women enough to deal with when it comes to sexuality and body issues. We don't need to be adding more fuel to the fire.

Exactly. I don't dress my children based on "protecting them" from pedophiles. I protect my children by watching them, knowing who their friends, friends parents, neighbors are. Pedophiles choose children based on availability and because they are children...not because they are dressed in "provocative" clothing.

I personally don't dress my kids in "provocative" clothing because I think children are rushed out of childhood in general. They don't need to dress like teens or college students when they are 4, 6, 8 and 11. Finding comfortable children's clothes, especially for my dd, has been a challenge for me since she left size 6 (so when she was 5). I don't notice the same shift in boys clothing. My dd has always loved comfortable dresses, leggings and t shirts. We made our foray into Limited Too last year as she had been admiring some of the sparkly shirts. You know what, she didn't wear them anymore than her other shirts and she didn't like the overstimulation of the store. It's like anything in parenting, following the child's lead.

[BlueStateMama]

But...but...can we just go back to THIS http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html

and at least reach a consensus on something? That this is just plain WRONG??? Oh man, that poor boy. Someone rescue him from the pageant circuit!!!

[MamaPam]

Originally Posted by joandsarah77

Sure why not Some of us here are Christians. So yer when I choose clothes God does come into it.

I think this might be the source of a lot of the conflict in this discussion. As a Christian my view on clothing types and modesty is different then that of others as I would expect it to be. And I don't expect non-christians to understand/agree with my view on this topic.

Pam

[joandsarah77]

I don't expect non-christians to understand/agree with my view on this topic.

Oh yes, I don't expect understanding or agreement, but it is one of my reasons.

As for http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html who buys that stuff maybe for a garden party with the queen

[wintermagick]

Yuck!!! I've not seen anything like this... but then my little one is still in that stage between baby and toddler. And most of her clothes are given to us by granparents.

Yes... who designs these?

[Heffernhyphen]

Originally Posted by joandsarah77

As for http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html who buys that stuff

I'll tell you who, my neighbor. The one who turned us in for child abuse because our parenting styles are about as different as our clothing styles. My husband and I like to joke that they won't let their kid out of his bedroom unless he's in a coordinated outfit with French words on it. Meanwhile, our wild child is in the front yard in a dirty jammie top and cloth diaper.

[NinaBruja]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

Let's start here. Do you really not see a vast difference between strolling around topless and nursing in public? C'mon. Conjure up an image of, oh, let's say Bo Derek jogging topless along the surf. Now imagine some mom on a park bench with her baby nuzzled in her lap, with maybe a fraction of an inch of skin showing. Maybe it's just the bi in me, but I'm seeing one as far more inclined to stir up a sexual thought or two.

well of course theres a difference. but i guess im comming from the angle of breasts not being inherently sexy no matter what theyre doing.
the image of bo derek made me thankful for bras, i dont know her or what cup size she is but i cant imagine running topless. ow. its all in the eye of the beholder i guess. what if the person seeing the woman being rediculously descreet is a lactation fetishist? does that make breastfeeding sexy? im not a fan of nursing descreetly so im not really able to pull off the 'fraction of an inch of skin' look but even with boobs flapping in the wind i certaintly dont think thats sexy... this reminds me of my friend. she was nursing her distractable newly toddler daughter and forgot to put her breasts away. then she went outside to play with her daughter in the front yard. eventually she figured out why everyone was gawking at her... maybe some people would but i dont find that sexy...

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

I'm guessing you really do know what sexy clothes are when you see them. Think Beyonce; think Brittney Spears; think the slutty girls you weren't allowed to hang out with in high school; think how you dressed when you were trying to get the attention of that someone special (or just special enough for that night).

well i guess this explains it... i wasnt banned from seeing anyone based on fashion choices, my mom didnt make stuff like that an issue. i think beyonce and britney spears wear alot of clothes, well i mean they wear long pants, underwear isnt hanging out, ect. and wow i dont recall ever having a consious thought of wearing something special for anyone's attention. im serious... i may run around in next to nothing sometimes(when im not huge and pregnant) but im deffinitely not doing it for anything other than my own comfort.

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

Yeah, tell that to Madonna next time she decides to reinvent herself.

my issue is with that womans music not her fashion sense.

Originally Posted by Calidris

there is no way of knowing WHAT specifically will attract a paedophile to a particular kid and blaming the clothes is just another way of sticking your head in the sand and thinking "it can't happen to me".

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

Seriously, I don't worry so much about my son's wardrobe attracting attention (as I said earlier, he is GORGEOUS in a Speedo); what scares me more is his personality. Heading off topic here, but I have raised him (by example) to be incredibly friendly. He says hi to everyone he sees. He'll give a kiss or a hug to a stranger. It makes me very conflicted, because I want him to be friendly and open and loving, but I also want him to be safe.
How do we strike that balance?

there is a section in 'protecting the gift' about teaching children to talk to strangers. its awesome... i must sound like i own stock in this book seriously though i think everyone should read it, its all about protecting your children. https://www.gavindebecker.com/books-ptg.cfm

Originally Posted by joandsarah77

God gave clothes as a covering for a reason.

if god had intended us to wear clothes we would have been born in them

Originally Posted by littleaugustbaby

Again, crimes of a sexual nature are generally committed for a feeling of power, NOT for a feeling of sexual pleasure. Pedophiles are not looking for children wearing bikinis, they're looking for children. Period.

This line of thinking is the same line of "reasoning" that people use to justify not allowing gay scout leaders. Because people are afraid that they'll lust after helpless children.

In the majority of cases where children are sexually abused, the crime is committed by someone that the child knows - and that person is generally someone who is in a supervisory role over the child (parent, teacher, babysitter, etc.), and about 60% of rapes and sexual assualts occur within the home. As many as 80% of sex crime perpetrators have a diagnosable psychiatric disorder.

This isn't a case of someone seeing a little girl in a short skirt and thinking that it's sexy. It's a serious mental issue that goes far beyond that. I think that when people assume that their children are safter because of the way that they're dressed, then it creates a false sense of security. And I think that it's pretty alarmist to say that someone is going to be more of a target for a sex crime (or any kind of violent crime, for that matter) because of the way that they're dressed. And it just smacks of victim blaming, and it's disgusting. It really reads no differently than, "she was wearing a short skirt, she must have wanted it, so she deserved it".

It is no different, IMO, than to assume that a woman is a slut because of the way that she dresses. Which is misogynistic and ridiculous in the first place. But it gets worse when we start trying to indoctrinate little girls into that same mold, making judgement calls about them based on what they're wearing. Our society gives women enough to deal with when it comes to sexuality and body issues. We don't need to be adding more fuel to the fire.

Originally Posted by joandsarah77

As for http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html who buys that stuff maybe for a garden party with the queen

ahhh! make it stop!!!

[Ambrose]

:irked:

All right, I've read through this whole thing, and ....

Wow. Just. Wow.

The judgemental attitudes from some of you really have me wondering how "open-minded" you claim you are raising your children.

"Hootchie", "Skanky", and "Slutty" in the way you women are using them are derrogatory, offensive and down right mean.

A few momma's here have made really good points on *their opinions* both for and against these type of clothing. But I do not and will not be open to someones opinion who insists on using slut, skank, or hootch as part of their reason as to why they don't like the clothing.

Those mama's are sexualizing the clothes themselves by calling it skanky, slutty, and hootchie and then claim that others will view it as such. Well, you are in essance encouraging others to view it that way because YOU are viewing it that way.


**Bolds and inderlines my emphasis**

Originally Posted by eminer

Well, I honestly think that these issues have more to do with your perception of adult attire and sexuality and the social context than with age appropriateness. I never went "clubbing" and would consider it degrading to go around wearing clothes for the sole purpose of turning other people on. I do sometimes wear skimpy clothes to the beach, however. Why? Because I love feeling the breeze and sand and water on my skin. Because I feel good and sexy in the best, most meaningful sense: beautiful, unashamed in my body, unashamed to enjoy it. It took me a long time to get there, partly because I heard comments like those in this thread and developed negative impressions and feelings. *snip* Bikinis aren't what hurt girls and their developing sexuality. And underwear should follow the contour of our bodies. When my dd wears briefs, they slip down under her little belly and the extra fabric bunches up. She likes them anyway, and I support her. But what would be wrong with underwear shaped more like her? And um, shirts that show her cute little belly button...?!

:

Originally Posted by lucysmama

I must say I am totally shocked by how many people think a child's navel exposed in a swimsuit is wrong or inappropriate. Is this really the message we want to send our kids? That their navels are somehow sexual and we must cover them for fear that a hypothetical predator may find it arousing? I just do not get this.
*snip*
I think the problem here is that lots of people associate a style of clothing with a certain ethnicity, a certain socio-economic background, a certain sexual fetish, a lack of religion perhaps, a lack of moral fiber maybe, and they find it inappropriate to see a child (or their child) associated with this. This reeks of prejudism to me, not in the racial sense, but the literal-judge-a-person-by-their-cover mentality that I hope not to pass on to my kids.

: :

Originally Posted by genna

Well as far as little girls clothes- I think there is a difference between a bikini and a 2 piece bathing suit. A bikini has the triangle top and skimpy bottom, a two piece has a straight across full coverage top and appropriate bottoms that cover everything.

I'm sorry, I know you are trying to decern between two styles, but I just have to say it... a bikini is two pieces of cloth yes? That covers the same portions that the bathing suit "2 piece" does? Both of them are 2 pieces, end of story, some just like a different style than what your 2 piece style it. That does not mean that bikini's are different type of bathing suit at all. What is it called then? A duo piece if not a straight 2 piece? I'm sorry, I'm trying to throw in a little humor here, not sure if it's getting across what with my mood of the overall thread.

Originally Posted by joandsarah77

God gave clothes as a covering for a reason.

So, why were Adam and Eve born naked? And why did they only use "clothes" after they got thrown out of the Garden? Apparently they were perfectly OK to go clothes free in the Garden. That doesn't tell me that God intended us to wear clothes... IMO...