questioning teachers teaching style

[bubsmom]

My ds is given 15 min total time to unpack and eat his snack (he only gets snack since he is part day)? His teacher is very scheduled for all activities and when time is up that's it. Since he is a perfectionists he sometimes panics because he does not believe he has enough time to do tasks so he doesn't even start them. She does not worry if they do not complete an assignment in the given time but my ds thinks differently. If he does not complete something she also writes you did not finish which I think bothers him even though he doesn't say anything. I continually reinforce that it is ok that he did not finish. I have heard that she is the strictest teacher in the school and at first I thought that was good but now I am worried it will effect him in future years. Even though he is only in kindergarten he is determined to be an engineer since I am one and he really enjoys hearing about the things I do. I do educate him on my own at home also. I do not have the option to home school and cannot send him to another school. I have sort of spoken to her but since all the kids have to do it I do not think she will change. I had considered trying to switch teachers but I don't want him to think it is ok to quit if something is tough. I would like him to learn to adapt to situations when needed. She also has a reward system where kids are given stickers to fill in a chart and they get a prize when it is full. I am fine with that but I recently found out she randomly has a day called healthy snack day and they get a sticker if they have a healthy snack. I usually send in a healthy snack but I realize a lot of parents are overloaded and it is so much easier to send them in with a prepackaged snack (I did with my older son for quite a while). I personally think some of the kids are missing out for something that is not in their control. Do you think I should bring this up to her? The ironic part is many of the prizes my ds has brought home are actually old McDonalds and Burger King toys from kids meals. He also has homework 7 days a week, 1 assignment for mon-thur and reading everyday. My second grader has less required homework so it is hard for the younger one to sit down when his older brother is already done. Any way, Please excuse the length. When I get started it is hard to get me to stop. Any advise is appreciated.

ps. I actaully love the school, it has been great for my older son, I think it is just the teachers technique that bothers me.

[boongirl]

As a teacher and a parent, I feel your issues are perfectly justified. I would make an appointment and talk nicely with the teacher. Explain how her comments about not finishing are hurting your son. Perhaps there is another phrasing she can use with your son. As for homework and snack day rewards, those may not be issues you can change but you could still talk to the teacher about them. However, keep one thing in mind. Your child does not have to do his homework. You could just tell the teacher that it is too much and he is not going to do it. Or he could do some. As a teacher, I've had that told to me before. I've had parents ask for more homework. Homework in elementary school, especially in kindergarten, should never make or break any grades the child receives. Homework is supposed to be practice at home in elementary school. Just tell her you want less or none and if she holds it against your child grade-wise, speak to the principal.

[ChristaN]

I just wanted to comment on your concern about teaching him that quitting is okay. We wound up taking dd out of her first grade classroom last year due to a very, very bad fit with the teacher that was damaging my dd's love of learning and self esteem. Dh had the same concerns about quitting.

What I wound up doing was trying to work with the teacher and later the principal to effect the changes that dd needed. I let dd know what I was doing, but it eventually became clear that what we needed was a personality transplant for the teacher and that just wasn't going to happen. You can't make someone into another person and who she was just wasn't going to work for dd.

I took the approach of letting dd know that we had worked to make changes, but that it still wasn't working (which was quite obvious and she knew it more than anyone). I told her that you do the best you can and then you move on if it still isn't working. I do believe that children and all of us should try to fix things, do our best and give it a good shot. However, if things are still bad, sometimes you have to recognize that you have tried your best and it is time to move on or cut your losses.

While I don't want dds to be quitters, I also don't want them to learn that it is okay to be unhappy or abused and that they should just suck it up. I want them to learn to stand up for themselves as well.

[blessed]

Situations are all varied so it's hard to ever generalize about the 'right' way to approach something.

You've talked about not wanting him to quit, and also mention that you would like him to 'learn to adapt to situations when needed'. To me, you seem to be on the right track there.

Theoretically, at least, probably the way to help our kids the best in these situations is to help them to be successful in dealing with these people. For the rest of their lives our kids are going to meet and deal with folks who aren't all that good for them, or who don't necessarily have their best interests at heart. If we can help them to negotiate their way along in these more challenging circumstances, they'll learn some valuable tricks on how to get by in life.

I'm thinking a little bit about the unyielding deadline approach that this teacher uses, and how your son doesn't do well with it at the moment. As I'm sure you well know being that you're an engineer yourself, having to meet unflexible deadlines is going to be the reality of your son's academic experience pretty much from here on out, especially if he's interested in a science discipline like engineering. I wonder if it wouldn't be most helpful for your son if the three of you - you, he and teacher - to work on that issue together to ensure his ability to successfully deal with it, as opposed to hoping that the teacher might change her teaching style?

[aran]

Originally Posted by blessed

As I'm sure you well know being that you're an engineer yourself, having to meet unflexible deadlines is going to be the reality of your son's academic experience pretty much from here on out, especially if he's interested in a science discipline like engineering. I wonder if it wouldn't be most helpful for your son if the three of you - you, he and teacher - to work on that issue together to ensure his ability to successfully deal with it, as opposed to hoping that the teacher might change her teaching style?

nak I am sorry, but success in engineering doesn't come from being able to meet inflexible deadlines... especially not in kindergarten, when children's developmental stage dictates that experiential play as learning works better than "academic" work. Although I think it's way too young to peg a child into a future role like engineer, the truth is that creatively solving problems with mechanical/chemical/physical systems is what makes an engineer successful. That skill would be best nourished by playing creatively with physical objects, at kindy age. I would probably move my child to a new teacher. As you suggest, OP, kindergarten can set the tone for how a child approaches school. It's important that it be a positive experience. I don't see how changing teachers = quitting. School is there as a service to meet your child's needs, and this teacher sounds like a personality mismatch for your ds. If I had a job where I had to spend all day under the thumb of someone who rubbed me the wrong way, I would try to find another job... even though I *could* deal with it, why *should* I if there is a better way?

Signed,
A fellow engineer from Mass

[flyingspaghettimama]

Originally Posted by boongirl

However, keep one thing in mind. Your child does not have to do his homework. You could just tell the teacher that it is too much and he is not going to do it. Or he could do some. As a teacher, I've had that told to me before. I've had parents ask for more homework. Homework in elementary school, especially in kindergarten, should never make or break any grades the child receives. Homework is supposed to be practice at home in elementary school. Just tell her you want less or none and if she holds it against your child grade-wise, speak to the principal.

Thread-jumping here...boongirl,is that really possible? Would teachers be miffed by a parent saying this? Up to what grade level could a parent say this without getting their kid in trouble (assuming I know she already knows how to do the work, it's just busywork for her and a power struggle for us, etc)? Second, third grade, higher?

[blessed]

Originally Posted by aran

nak I am sorry, but success in engineering doesn't come from being able to meet inflexible deadlines...

No, but failure in engineering - and practically every other field as well - can come from inability to meet inflexible deadlines. You won't pass introductory college courses if you can't turn in an assignment on time or complete a test during the allotted time period.

But perhaps you're right, it's probably not necessary to focus on those skills at this age. It's possible that his struggle to succeed in this area now doesn't predict anything at all about his later abilities, and focusing on it now only causes harmful stress.

Or maybe he's just needing a little extra boost of attention and support to successfully overcome this issue. That might boost his confidence and potential more than downshifting him into a less demanding classroom.

Ah, who knows? I'm sure the right answer (is there such a thing?) will show itself eventually .

[CarrieMF]

I personally think some of the kids are missing out for something that is not in their control. Do you think I should bring this up to her? The ironic part is many of the prizes my ds has brought home are actually old McDonalds and Burger King toys from kids meals.

While the kids may be missing out IF their parents only send prepackaged foods the kids do have the ability to ask their parents for the foods they see their classmates having on Healthy Snack day. Teachers use this as a way to get the kids to see what is healthy and in turn they ask their parents to buy those things. It may not work, but it can be easier than directly confronting the parents. What does the teacher consider a Healthy Snack, some things that are prepackages the teacher may consider healthy. As for the toys, it is common for the extra toys are donated to schools.

[turtlemama77]

I think I would be more concerned about my child's perception of school rather than teaching him/her not to give up when things get hard. There are plenty of other ways to teach that lesson.

I think having such inflexible deadlines is unreasonable for a kindergartener. Aren't they still working on grasping time concepts? It's one thing for a teacher to want a structured environment for the students, it's another to be so rigid. Even with 5th and 6th graders I was more flexible than that.

If your child is really having a tough time and you've tried to work with the teacher, I think it's reasonable to change teachers. School should be an enjoyable place, especially in the elementary grades.

[DoubleOven]

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[turtlemama77]

DoubleOven, I would agree with you if the student were a little older. I have just seen too many kids turned off to the whole school experience because of a teacher conflict when they were young.

If it were my child, and talking to the teacher didn't help, I would ask that he be moved.

[UUMom]

I wouldn't put up with that. Esp since you said the teachers are giving Buger King toys. I mean, can it be more *obvious* how pedestrian/mainstream they are? I'm glad it's not me paying for this.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by turtlemama77

DoubleOven, I would agree with you if the student were a little older. I have just seen too many kids turned off to the whole school experience because of a teacher conflict when they were young.

If it were my child, and talking to the teacher didn't help, I would ask that he be moved.

:

That's pretty much the conclusion to which we came as well. I do think that there is value in learning that not everyone will cater to your likes, but early elementary school is a bit soon to hammer that lesson home.

In my dd's case, I had a six year old coming home in tears every day telling me that she wished she had never been born. It was extremely scary to deal with as a parent.

IMO, it is absolutely more important that a young child learns that s/he is a successful student and likes to learn than that s/he learns to get along with difficult people. There are plenty of years ahead for that. I want dd to know that mom will protect her rather than hang her out to deal on her own with a situation that is beyond her currently abilities and maturity level.

[bubsmom]

Thank you all for your various inputs. DH and myself are talking about this more and trying to figure out the best route. I really think that I have to talk with the teacher a little more and see what we can work out. I don't expect her to change her teaching style and I am sure it does work for some of the other children. I think we may be able to work out some way to communicate to him that it is not absolutely critical that he finishes every bit of his classwork and maybe she can find some better wording for when he does not finish his work that more reflects that it is ok. I have recently found out that he has not been having recess but I want to verify that it is true since it is required. I think there may be a good reason for it like weather (I hope). I really do not want to switch his teacher this far into the year since he does say he likes her and he is pretty shy so he is just now starting to make good friends. As for not doing his homework, that option is out since I could say he doesn't have to do it but his perfectionists personality won't hear of it. Oddly enough his older brother wouldn't either since he loves doing homework. I do beleive ds#2's teacher expects more out of her class than the other teachers do. But I know he meets the schools requirements on what they have to learn during the year. She just gives more. If she were to try to hold him back for not meeting her extra criteria I wuold most definatly fight it. As for the snacks issue I may bring it up to her that I feel some kids are missing out while others are rewarded for what their parents do. I fully beleive that rewarding them for their own actions is much better. I am sure that many of the children that do not get a sticker on that day (which is not announced) are not neccesarily telling their parents about it. I found out by almost accidentally one day. He would have never brought it up to me. Thank you again.

[turtlemama77]

If your son is missing recess on a regular basis for disiplinary reasons, the teacher should have contacted you about it. I hope you get some answers when you talk with her!

[bubsmom]

I am sure he is not missing recess for disiplinary reasons. It sounds like the teacher is skipping recess to continue with school work instead. I have decided to wait a few weeks for school conferences since winter break is coming up next week and I want to see how he adjusts that first week back, then the next week is the conference.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Wow -- I'm dealing with some very similar issues with my DS as well. Unfortunately, some of the options IDed here aren't open to us. There is only one K classroom, so changing rooms isn't an option. I have an appointment to go talk to his teacher next week, so wish me luck.

[turtlemama77]

Originally Posted by bubsmom

I am sure he is not missing recess for disiplinary reasons. It sounds like the teacher is skipping recess to continue with school work instead. I have decided to wait a few weeks for school conferences since winter break is coming up next week and I want to see how he adjusts that first week back, then the next week is the conference.

The kindergarten teacher in the charter school where I taught used to keep the kids inside if SHE didn't feel like going out. It used to drive me nuts. Little kids (well, ALL kids) need to run and play outside every day. I hope you address this issue as well when you talk to the teacher.