Team sports, or lack thereof.

[boysrus]

I don't want to do soccer or baseball. DOes this make me a bad mom?
I can't stand the whole lifestyle that forms from the team sport.
After we move, we will be reapplying to the Y. The boys will have the choice of KArate or swimming lessons.
Do you think I am ruining them for life? I want to hear great words from other moms who avoid team sports.

[moominmamma]

We barely do team sports. Last year the kids sort of fell into a low-key community soccer program but that was the first they'd done a team sport and we only did it because it was easy and fun and I knew and liked the coaches' philosophy. My eldest was 11 and it was her first experience with team sports. She may do it again for the next couple of springs, but I'd wager it'll be the lifelong extent of her experience with team sports. She enjoys gymnastics, skiing, skating and mountain-biking, so she's fit and active.

I think some collaborative group work is a good think for children to experience. It doesn't have to be sports though, nor does it have to be frequent and constant experience. My kids play in a community orchestra and have done some collaborative project work on a couple of co-op radio shows this year. That's plenty enough, IMO. They handle the mix of responsibility, accountability, leadership, deferring and co-operating just fine.

Miranda

[USAmma]

I agree with you 100%. I hate team sports, always have. I cannot see myself sitting out on the field with the other soccer moms. It sounds very boring to me. IF my daughters ever really, really wanted to try it I would let them do one season and see. But it's expensive (uniform, fees, mileage, time) so they would have to want to very badly.

Right now I have my dd enrolled at the Y: dance, gymnastics, PE. My toddler loves the childcare room so I get an hour to sit and read my book or exercise. Everyone's happy.

The only exception is I may enroll her in a track club when she's a bit older b/c she loves to run. Track is different. I grew up in track and you don't have the same team sports mentality. It's mostly about individual performance, even performing against yourself and your personal best.

[Lillian J]

I don't know much about the team sports lifestyle, because I never could interest my son. He did a bit of gymnastics for a while, ended up participating in occasional small and casual homeschool sports, and did some aikido (the martial art), but that's about it.

But I had a friend who encouraged her kids' team sports because she felt it was important to learn how to be a team player for whatever came along in adult life. Interestingly enough, her grown daughter now has a responsible job with Google that requires teamwork, and her son has a job with a software developer that requires the same. So who knows - maybe the mom had some kind of precognition where they were concerned. But whether the sports really made a difference, I don't know. They really enjoyed their sports, though - played hard, made good friends through them, and didn't seem to be affected adversely at all. They weren't in an area, though, where they had to deal with the whacko parents and coaches I've heard of in some places. And my friend told me how much she really enjoyed sitting on the field visiting with the other soccer moms - she found it very relaxing to take the time to just hang out and chat on the grass in the afternoons.

I had another friend whose son was always driven by a strong need for sports - a very physically oriented boy who just absolutely thrived in them. He would have been a very different kid if he hadn't had them. That mom and son had to deal with some unfairness and politics involving coaches and parents, but she found it worth the effort because sports meant so much to her son and his self esteem. And she was also a very athletically oriented person who felt sports were great and wholesome on many levels - things that had nothing to do with competition but with one's own development - so his athleticism fit right in with her values.

So it just all depends on so many individual factors. We're all so different... - Lillian

[boysrus]

yep, usamma, when you said sitting on the sidelines, yep, that is a huge part of it! At the Y, we can all be doing something. I understand that there are great reasons to do them, but they are just wrong for our family. I am planning to get my oldest into drama, which is a great team mentality. And, it is the same thing a track, in a way, trying to best yourself instead of someone else.
My middle guy will be getting onto a lego robotics team when he gets older.

[nicole lisa]

Another team sports hater here, . I just can't stand the team mentality - I have never been a team player.

I grew up in dance and never ever felt comfortable in competitive team sports. I am really hoping DS is the same, though if he really wanted hockey (my nightmare) or soccer or something I would support him. I would much prefer running, swimming, dance, karate....sports where you are your own competition - where the focus is on furthering your best.

Right now he's in karate and seems to be loving it. But it's sat. mornings and I have such a hard time sitting in the waiting area for the hour he's in the dojo. BF and I don't fit in with the other parents. They're into the whole hyper-parenting thing.

[whimsy]

I have NEVER played a team sport. Well, I was a cheerleader, but nothing competitive.

I love to WATCH professional baseball (Go CARDS!)

But I do not think you need to play them to be well rounded.

[snyderjoint]

This is a very interesting subject, growing up disabled and unable or at least thinking I was unable to play sports really had me thinking about this. While I agree you don't need sports to be well rounded or a good person I do think they are a very good thing for kids. I wish I could have played sports when I was a kid. However, some kids aren't into sports at all or team sports and that's ok, I would never push my kid into something. However, if my kid showed an interest I don't think I'd have the heart to tell them they couldn't do a team sport even if I wasn't into that kind of thing.

Amy

[Dar]

I guess I don't see how this is really about the parent at all. If your child wants to play a sport that can only really be played with a group, then I would hope you'd find an avenue for that. If not, well, then don't. Rain played soccer for years, spring and fall... I think from age six to age eleven. She enjoyed it most of the time, which is true of most of the things she chooses to do. It was her choice, of course. She also played a season of softball at the Y... actually, it was Y-ball. Soccer worked well for her - nearly all of her coaches were about the fun of playing rather than all about winning, and the coach she had when she was 6-8 was really a wonderful nurturing male role model for her during those years (since her dad wasn't and isn't really part of her life). There were always a couple of teams that got nasty and ultra-competitive, but Rain's teams were generally very supportive. Actually, her co-ed teams were not so supportive, but most of the all-girls teams during the 6-10 years were very much so.

Y-ball was actually too non-competitive for her... she was 8 when she did it, or 9, and they were all about everyone getting to play every position, not keeping score, etc... and there were some good things about that, but it also was frustrating for the kids who were more competent... imagine always playing a game with your 4-years-younger brother, for example.

Generally she'd practive once (when she was younger) or twice (after 8 or so) a week, and then play once a week, for 2-3 months or so. I didn't really think of it as a lifestyle, just 2-3 hours a week. Compared to theatre, it was nothing, time-wise. often took on a job like organizing snacks, and then everyone brought snacks to one game. I went to the games but didn't stay for practice after the first season. It was actually fun, most of the time. The rule was that you could only yell positive things, and everyone followed the rule 99% of the time. We cheered a lot, drank coffee, took toddlers to the playground in shifts, and enjoyed being outdoors. That was my experience, anyway...

dar

[UlrikeDG]

Originally Posted by Dar

I guess I don't see how this is really about the parent at all. If your child wants to play a sport that can only really be played with a group, then I would hope you'd find an avenue for that. If not, well, then don't.

This is what I was thinking!

[boysrus]

yes, i do see your point Dar.
It is just such a part of mainstream culture that I feel a bit odd, I guess.
I am struggling too, because my oldest would love to play baseball, but I am afraid of his self esteem taking a big old whack. I need to really research the teams and see if I can find some truly sportsman teams for him.

[Tata]

Oh, god. Organized sports are terrible. I'm a dad and have two daughters. I personally will not conceal my dislike of team sports to them, but if they wish to participate, I will support them in any way I can. The "team" mentality permeates work environments to ad-nausium. And, competitive people are just so much fun to be around, you know? Taken to its extremes, the win win, eyes on the prize, go team go mentality is, in my opinion a big problem in this and other cultures. Especially in a male dominated way. So, yeah. I'd support my daughters and even encourage them to play IF that is what they wanted. But, oh too many parents go bonkers getting their kids into sports because it's supposed to be sooo good for them.

So, no, you're not wrong in not liking team sports. Your kids will turn out just fine not playing. And, they may turn out fine playing, too. It is really up to them but it's up to the parent to guide them in proper balance of what they learn through the sport experience.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by Dar

I guess I don't see how this is really about the parent at all. If your child wants to play a sport that can only really be played with a group, then I would hope you'd find an avenue for that.

Perhaps my perspective is a little different from yours, living as I do in a remote rural area with four introverted kids. Unless I actively seek out possibilities for my kids, it would never occur to them to 'want to play' a sport or get involved in any activity for that matter. Their days don't intersect with those of other kids who are doing hockey, baseball, basketball, etc.. None of those sports are offered in our community, and so I would have to make a concerted effort to drive my kids 3 hours round trip to introduce them to these possibilities. I confess I haven't done that... though I have driven similar distances for arts-related things.

The enthusiasm with which I do or don't seek out certain types of opportunities for my kids has a huge influence over whether they become interested in those things. My interests and values lie in the arts, community service and individual sports.... and not surprisingly those are the areas my kids have developed interests in. If I believed team sports were important, I would have created opportunities for the development of those interests. But I don't, and so I didn't.

So I think parenting choices help create the environment for the development (or not) of certain interests.

Miranda

[sleet76]

As a "graduate" of long-time team sportsmanship (soccer mostly, but a little basketball, softball, and track--lots of relays), I have to say that I personally really enjoy that part of my background. I am not an overly-competitive person, and feel very well-rounded. However, I don't think team sports participation is at all necessary. As long as your children are able to follow their interests (and you can steer those some, I'm sure, especially of they are young) I don't see that they will be lacking from not playing team sports.

I do hope that my kids are interested in team sports. I think that if they end up homeschooled through their whole education, team sports would be one thing that I can really personally relate to. I'm a public school graduate, and while I'm sold on homeschooling, it is something that will be very formative for them that I have not experienced. That's okay with me, but I guess part of me wants to "relate" to their experiences. I don't expect that I will do more than gently suggest sporting opportunities, but I do hope that they choose sports that I enjoy watching! (that is if they choose sports at all!)

[Dar]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

The enthusiasm with which I do or don't seek out certain types of opportunities for my kids has a huge influence over whether they become interested in those things. My interests and values lie in the arts, community service and individual sports.... and not surprisingly those are the areas my kids have developed interests in. If I believed team sports were important, I would have created opportunities for the development of those interests. But I don't, and so I didn't.

For me, part of unschooling is ensuring that my daughter has the opportunity to learn about all sorts of different things, not just the ones I particularly value or know about. I make a point of offering things that are outside my comfort zone, just because I don't want my daughter to be limited by my own interests. I don't believe that I can determine what is valuable for her... although it's taken me a long time to really "get" that. Some kids thrive on team sports, and find the camaraderie fulfilling and the competition motivating. Others would rather eat worms than play on a team. Although team sports may not be important for the latter group, I would argue that they certainly are for the former.

And boysrus - Yball might actually be perfect for your son. In our experience, there was a wide range of ability levels and the focus was completely on playing and having fun, rather than competition. it was very, very low-key...

Dar

[nicole lisa]

I agree, Dar.

I would definitely support DS in any sport he chose (though I'll qualify hockey below), but I think here it's OK to talk about just how outside some of our comfort zones that would be.

I qualify hockey because I live in Canada and hockey isn't hockey it's HOCKEY. It's insane. 5 year olds have two practices a week plus a game. So it's not just an hour or two a week. It's the hour to get gear rounded up, to the rink, skates on uniform on, practice or game for an hour or an hour and a bit, and then after game talk in locker room, gear off, to the car and then home. It's at best 2.5 hours each practice and game. And often the rink times are right at dinner or very early morning (a friend's seven year old has Sat morning practices at 6:30am). There's also weekend tournaments that have 6+ hours spent at the rink each day. It's a big time commitment (as well as expense, several hundred a season and that's not including equipment) so though I'd want to support DS we would have an honest conversation about what hockey means not just for him but for the whole family. It impacts everyone.

One compromise someone I know has made is to say yes to hockey but no to summer sports as the family needs some time each year when they're not running a child to practices and games etc and some time each year when the family can enjoy meals and week-ends together. Plus there are other kids in the family and for them it's important the family's schedule isn't always revolving around just the one member's activties. If their son wants soccer in the summer or baseball he knows he'd have to decide whether he was willing to drop hockey that year. We'd look into a similar compromise.

In this area it is really hard to find a non-competitive and just once a week hockey league. My brother was in one when he was younger and it was still the whole "all for one and one for all" thing that really effected sensitive guys like him. My parents had a hard time helping him deal with losing because he felt it was because he wasn't a fast enough skater or a good enough goalie or because he didn't posses a hard enough shot. They attended all pratices and games so they know it wasn't so much the coach (no uyelling at kids etc) so much as the message that they all win together and fail together etc.

I think we were all just talking about our feelings surrounding team sports. But I'm pretty sure as loving parents we'd help our kids persue their interests even if they were in team activties.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by Dar

For me, part of unschooling is ensuring that my daughter has the opportunity to learn about all sorts of different things, not just the ones I particularly value or know about.

Sure, I agree, but it becomes a question of just how far you will go ... literally and metaphorically. Was I willing to drag my then 8-year-old, 10-year-old and 1-year-old on a three-hour round trip three times a week so that my then-6yo could take up the spot on the competitive gymnastics team she was offered? No way! She might have loved the competitive program, but it wasn't something I felt was worth that level of sacrifice.

My kids have done community soccer which is three times a week through the spring here -- but locally. When it's easy and when it works for everyone in the family, I certainly am more than willing to put time and energy into things that I don't particularly value. In fact I had to push them into giving it a try, as is typical.

I'm just trying to point out that I don't think we can pretend parenting is value-neutral. Parental interests and values do affect children's interests and values... as well they should!

Miranda

[tealee]

Originally Posted by boysrus

I don't want to do soccer or baseball. DOes this make me a bad mom?

But you will be doing hockey right?

Seriously, though...
My husband and I both enjoy playing ice hockey but are totally not in agreement about the kids. I want to not put the kids in organized competitive sports untill they have the maturity to handle it and then only if they want to. My husband sees only positives for getting the kids into hockey. He expects our 4 year old to play hockey by the end of the year and she can't even SKATE yet.

I think the critical thingy is to guide the kids into activities they enjoy and excel at.

[greencurry]

I think the "child-led learning" doctrine can be misapplied. I strive to guide my daughter's choices and to give her as much freedom as possible within the limits I consider necessary for her long term health. Competitive sports are not an aspect of our culture that I see as making a positive contribution. Of course I love the idea of teamwork that was brought up, and I think there are many ways to work together toward a goal that don't involve "beating" anyone else, or getting more, faster, better, etc.

If you (the op) are uncomfortable with those kinds of sports, I don't think you are a bad mom for denying your boys something they want. Do you feel bad about denying them candy and french fries three meals a day, or watching cartoons for hours on end, or any other aspect of our culture that are considered acceptable by some? I realize those are super-unhealthy extremes, I'm just saying that it is up to you as a parent to decide for yourself what's best for your kids.

[SagMom]

*I* don't have any love of watching sports, but I don't think that has to have anything at all to do with my kids. If they're interested in something that I'm not, I'll still try to find a way for them to do that activity. Of course, the rest of the family's needs need to be considered when time and distance and money are an issue, but there's often a way to work those things out so that everyone is happy.

otoh, I don't think there's anything inherently necessary about team sports either.