Team sports, or lack thereof. - Page 2

[Tigeresse]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

I'm just trying to point out that I don't think we can pretend parenting is value-neutral. Parental interests and values do affect children's interests and values... as well they should!

Miranda

I agree. My kids are skiers/snowboarders because that is what we do. They have been raised in the sport. If they had chosen it themselves we would have quite a challenge pulling it off as we don't live in an area where skiing is just around the corner. Dh and I have most definitely influenced our kids participation in this sport.

My oldest 2 ds's also played soccer at their request. After 2 years lost interest. Most definitely not necessary imo, but it was accessible and affordable so we did it.

Later, I "influenced" ds#1 to try dancing (hip hop) because I could see an ability in him. Talked him into trying a class, and he has never looked back. He enjoys it and is pretty good at it (as well as an awesome snowboarder!).

So, up to this point, ds1 has interest in sports/physical activities in which his parents have directly influenced him. The soccer thing (his idea) turned out to be fairly short-lived, however, I'm glad he had the experience because he wanted to do it.

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by Tata

Taken to its extremes, the win win, eyes on the prize, go team go mentality is, in my opinion a big problem in this and other cultures. Especially in a male dominated way.

Yes, yes, yes! I played soccer for entirely too many years when I was younger. I was also on a gymnastics team. I also ran track, and I was also on the fencing team.

With soccer and gymnastics, the "team" mentality was basically an "us versus them" mentality. We wanted to kill, annihilate, stomp into the ground, etc., the other team. We rocked. They sucked. "We" hated "them." It was awful. It was the same in gymnastics, even though gymnastics is actually more of an individual sport. The "team" thing was really played up in an "us vs. them" way.

With track, there was some of that, because it was an "our school against yours" thing, but the people I ran track with were, for the most part, mainly interested in competing against other people who were very skilled or themselves, not in beating "you" because of where "you" came from.

With fencing, it wasn't like that at all. I think because fencing is seen (in high school) as such an odd thing to do, ALL the fencers had a kind of shared "we're the weirdos, rah rah rah" mentality that the "us vs. them" thing was ALL the fencers against the world, not "our" fencing team vs. "their" fencing team.

I completely agree with the idea that focusing on the prize and winning is a big part of what's wrong with things these days. We need to focus on cooperation and mutual aid/benefit, not on "who's best."

The other thing I tend to dislike about sports is the "no pain no gain" mentality. I don't believe in abusing the body just to "win" something or be the best. I think sports should be fun, and I think there is too much pressure on kids to perform even when their body says to take it easy.

Namaste!

[Lillian J]

Oh dear, this seems to be my day for playing devil's advocate - not my usual cuppa' tea - but maybe I've had too much tea this morning! In fact, I KNOW I've had too much tea! But... : here goes...

Over the years, I've personally witnessed dynamics among families I've known where moms who had gentle but strong philosophies about things that are generally more closely associated with a feminine point of view tried to impose those values on sons who, by nature, had a more male point of view. Video games are one of the biggies. Toy gun play is another - I've heard SO many times of gentle homes where even squirt guns were banned, but children would pick up sticks and make them into pretend guns. Team sports might be another...

[An aside: I once got some lovely ceramic jars donated to our cub scout group, and was about to lead the boys in making drums out of them - which is exactly what I'd picked them out for - and the boys were really excited. Not one, but two of the moms, independently popped up with "Drums? No - I want to do something really nice with this!" In each case, dads who were usually in the background stood firmly up to them with "Those belong to the boys - and they're going to be drums!" I realize this is different - that was about something other than deep values, but it did, to me, demonstrate subtle but strong male/female differences that moms sometimes don't think about.] I don't feel that any family should have to make huge sacrifices to provide something that's dispensable and only benefits one member - but it makes me uncomfortable to think of what might be a perfectly harmless activity being made taboo over what might very well just amount to a difference in natural drives. I don't think all people interested in team sports are even thinking in terms of beating anyone so much as doing their very best and having supportive interaction with the team - but I'm not sure trying to dampen someone's attraction to a competitive situation is necessarily going to really wipe it out of their psyche.

I've seen some boys having to go along with their moms' more feminine values until they could get off on their own and do their own thing - which is a far different thing from influencing them through ongoing respectful exchange of ideas from the beginning. I think the latter is what really sinks into the fiber of their values and works as superglue in the relationship. I don't mean to reduce these issues down to male/female - I realize they're a lot bigger than that - but I do think there's quite often a perfectly natural, and often subtle, male/female difference in there that can get easily overlooked or devalued.

I remember that poet and mens' leader, David Bly, once said that fathers need to "take sons away" from their mothers when they're about age 11 if they're to have a good male/female bond with a woman later on; and the remark infuriated me when I had a young son - but I've grown to understand that he wasn't probably wasn't talking about breaking the love bond so much as the control bond.

I'm one of the first to agree that we need to have more traditionally feminine values brought more to the forefront in the workings of our society, our spirituality, and our world - Absolutely! - but I think we also need to be very sensitive to our sons' natural drives along the way, and to really listen to them. I'm not saying anyone here has suggested than we shouldn't - but it's just been my observation in real life that this does get missed a lot. I think men have often ruled the world in such unfortunate ways that we tend to undervalue some of the things that might be the natural makeup of a lot of boys. Just some thoughts - and, as I said, my son was never attracted to team sports, so it hasn't really been my issue. Lillian

[rootzdawta]

Originally Posted by boysrus

yes, i do see your point Dar.
It is just such a part of mainstream culture that I feel a bit odd, I guess.
I am struggling too, because my oldest would love to play baseball, but I am afraid of his self esteem taking a big old whack. I need to really research the teams and see if I can find some truly sportsman teams for him.

DS is only 6 mos. but I've already begun thinking about team sports if we do decide to homeschool (which I really want to do). One of the biggest reasons why homeschooling appealed to me originally was because in school, my self-esteem did take a big old whack that I am still recovering from. Further thinking on it revealed that this is not a good reason to shield my ds from school/sports: because his self esteem might take a whack. It's my job to help him build up his own intact self-image to the point where his perfomance or his looks don't determine his self-esteem, don't determine him. I wish my parents did this for me. My husband's parents did and although he was teased in school too, he's one of the most confident guys I know. Long and short, I guess if ds really wanted to play a team sport and as long as his playing didn't negatively impact the family, I'd be willing to let him try and if indeed the spirit of competitiveness is just too much, I'd have to pull him. But I wouldn't let my fears about damage to his self esteem keep me from letting him at least try.

I tend to think, thought, that the world is competitive and I'm competetive by nature (sometimes too much maybe). I don't think losing in a competition or not being good in a competition should cripple someone's self esteem. Easier said than done, I suppose.