non-AP mamas who want to think they're AP? - Page 4

[kayjayjay]

AP as a buzzword is pretty recent. And the mamas I know (from the beginning!) who had babies in slings and not letting them CIO and co-sleeping...were *thrilled* to have a label for what they were doing.

This is how I see "Attachment Parenting" as a description of certain parenting choices. When my first DD was born we made some choices that were directly contrary to mainstream parenting advice and our "What to Expect" book. I was afraid to let people know that she was sleeping with us and that I was bf her on demand for fear that we would be told we were doing it wrong and that we were spoiling her. When I found out that there was a parenting style that approved of our choices I was encouraged, and I felt less alone.

I do think, as the op suggested, that the AP label is becoming more desirable as a sign that one is making responsive parenting choices. Quite a change from 10 years ago. Not to judge whether those that use the label deserve to, just noting that the term seems to be associated with good parenting.

Interesting to note how labels make people defensive.

[Danesmama]

I also think that maybe some of these moms are terming themselves AP because it is a buzz word, and not because they truly know what AP is about. It could maybe open their eyes a bit if you suggested they read books by Dr. Sears or Alison Granju. Without being pushy you could say something like "I really loved The Baby Book by Dr. Sears, how about you?" and then offer to loan her a copy if she hasn't read it already. Who knows they could be doing a lot of AP things already, but no matter what some educational reading could never hurt.

It does really surprise me that any mom would say that she's AP to another mom IRL. I would never say that to anyone I know - although I do talk about sleeping with my children, breast feeding on demand and everyone knows I am very close to my children! Anyhow I'm

[wannabe]

LOL, I'm the opposite!

My parenting style may fall under the 'AP' label, but if anyone tries to label me anything I'll bop them one.

xxx Wannabe, proud non-AP mother

[boongirl]

Originally Posted by calynde

This was meant to be a general, philosophical-level thread. No judging going on here. Why is there suddenly such a defensive tone?

Because you wrote this in your original post:

Or maybe I'm confusing AP with the "Mothering" community...which is rather about natural family living...which includes AP but doesn't refer to it exclusively.

It makes it sound as if you are saying there are mamas here at mdc who claim to be ap but really are not. Now that you've clarified it to two people in real life, yes it is clear that anyone spanking is not really practicing attachment parenting. Of course, that is just my opinion. But, anyone spanking their child in order to send the message that mom is boss is not being really emotionally responsive to their child. But, again, that is my opinion.

I only know a few mamas I would consider practicing AP but we don't really ever talk about it that much. The mamas in dd's coop preschool all seem pretty mainstream to me but then again we don't have time to talk about anything while working at school. I guess what I mean is that I've learned, as a parent, never to judge a book (parent) by its cover (outward appearances) until I've read further (gotten to know them).

And, of course, there is the old biblical adage, which I like even though I am pretty non-religious: judge not lest ye be judged yourself.

[johub]

Is Attachment Parenting a buzzword or a new fad?
Is it becoming more popular?
I had no idea that most people had even heard of AP.

[boongirl]

Originally Posted by johub

Is Attachment Parenting a buzzword or a new fad?
Is it becoming more popular?
I had no idea that most people had even heard of AP.

Dr Sears has sold a half a million copies of The Baby Book and who knows how many other books. Parenting, Parents, and Child all write about it. The local parenting rag in my town did a whole issue devoted to it. I think that means more and more people are becoming exposed to the idea of attachment parenting, making it a buzzword. OF course, I live in a major metropolis and things may be totally different in small town, bible belt america. But, if it is getting so much ink, that can only be a good thing for children.

[crunchy_mama]

AP to me is not so much about a checklist. However, we had a LLL meeting this last week and this one lady was about to drive me nuts talking about how she was so crunchy and all the things she did, but has talked many times about doing the opposite- CIO, crib sleeping etc. Why lie about it? I think whatever parenting decisions one makes they should at least be confident in them (even if I personally don't agree with them) it seems that for some it is just the in thing to follow, even if they don't actually ap at all.

[Sharlla]

Originally Posted by johub

Is Attachment Parenting a buzzword or a new fad?
Is it becoming more popular?
I had no idea that most people had even heard of AP.

I never heard of "AP" until after DS2 was born, when I found out what it was, I knew that was my parenting style. And yeah, I like that I have that label now.

[AdinaL]

I understand where the OP is coming from. I had my first experience with this not to long ago. After I had listened to a woman threaten her child with a spanking, belittle her in front of me, allow her to bawl her head off during a time out for asking a question, demand obedience (she used the word obey) in the form of a "yes, mommy" and generally be disrespectful of her child, she turned to me as said that being an AP parent was hard.

It surprised me. I will admit.

I think there is some confusion about the term, what it means, what it entails, how being attached and responsive to your child usually means not hitting them, or disregarding their feelings. I do think that it has become a buzz word - a way to embrace a popular parenting philosophy which is touted as being good for the child.

I have also met moms who said they exclusively breastfeed - when in fact that last for the first two weeks of life, and then they began supplementing with formula because their doc told them too. Again, and adoption of the term that embraces the idea, though not the actual practice in order to be seen as doing what is best for the child.

I think that the need to do what is right, or perceived as right by society at large, for your child will drive you to label yourself as something you may not entirely embrace and understand so as to fit in. Especially with moms, who are constantly barraged with new studies and new info and

Labels aren't inherently bad - they are a way of categorizing information. All humans do it. It is the way we figure out where we stand in the world.

Discriminating due to a label is bad.

I find that the same sort of adoption of what is "cool" happens with "popular" religions. Think of all the celebrities who are into Kabbalah, or Buddhism....and all the people who then do something to label themselves as such, even without knowing what the heck they are doing.

People hear a term, hear some brief descriptor that may or may not be correct, decide they like the sound of it and label themselves as such. Not always correctly, not always respectfully or wisely.

Can the mama label herself that? Sure. Does it make me ? Yep. Makes me scratch my head when someone says they are converting to Judaism, and yet have never met with a Rabbi too. Is it a problem? Not really. The only real problem I see is if the person labeling themselves erroneously begins to teach others about this fabulous new parenting philosophy (or whatever) that is based on doing whatever you want really. Then it becomes an issue I think. I mean - AP has ideals for a reason. You can embrace the ideals, and do what works for you and your baby, even without doing a dreaded "checklist" of parenting. We all have ideals we wish to live up to - that isn't a bad thing. We all also stress out when we don't live up to them on occasion.

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by Danesmama

I get very tired of mothers on this board judging the "AP-ness" of other people. We do vax, and yes, my sons are circumcised (not for religious reasons), but I still consider myself AP, although many on this board would not.

How does elective circumcision fit in with Attachment Parenting?

[Ellien C]

Originally Posted by Galatea

How does elective circumcision fit in with Attachment Parenting?

I think it has more to do with Natural Family Living which is what Mothering.com is about. I think of NFL as larger and all encompassing. I think AP is a component of NFL.

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by Ellien C

I think it has more to do with Natural Family Living which is what Mothering.com is about. I think of NFL as larger and all encompassing. I think AP is a component of NFL.

Well... if being AP means that you do what is right for the child and not what is easiest for the parent, then circumcision doesn't fit in that. It is wrong for the child, and may assuage some feelings the parent has. Doesn't sound very AP.

[the_lissa]

I think it has way more to do with AP than NFL. I consider it a parenting decision.

[Bruden]

Having just moved back to the US after having my two children in Sweden, I'm so surprised by conversations like this. Why compare? Why the need to one up each other or dismiss another person's parenting/philosophy? Of course I'm going to be drawn to people with like minded views but how does it affect my life if some person I've never met wants to call herself whatever.

You don't hear people in other countries talk about AP, CIO, or any other child related acronyms. What happened to people being tolerant? I would hate for someone to compare me to someone else. I do what I think it right based on our lifestyle and children. I suppose it never occurred to me to advertise that I had a home birth or didn't circumcised my son, etc. I don't see the point. If you like me, you like me. End of story.

* hope my tone doesn't sound defensive or aggressive, I'm mostly perplexed.

[dido1]

Just read through these post...interesting conversation.

My hot button is being labelled non-ap because we electively circ'd. I am conflicted about that decision and will answer to my son for it eventually if it becomes an issue for him. Everyone else who feels up for judging me on that topic can take a running leap. Sorry if you think that makes me non-AP but since I am extended bfing, co-sleep, babywear, cloth diapered for a long time, gd, etc., I don't really fit into the mainsteam parenting crowd either.

Labelling is silly really, because all it does is make those of us who do not strictly adhere to one set of parenting rules or the other feel alone and unsupported. I almost stopped posting here because my son is circed and I work full time, but I find more inspiration and likemindedness here than on any other parenting board so I continue to come here for parenting inspiration and thought provoking debates like this one :-)

[Danesmama]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

I think it has way more to do with AP than NFL. I consider it a parenting decision

the_lissa was referring to the decision to electively circ.

Galetea quoted me when asking how elective circ fits in with attachment parenting. Again I have to stress how steamed this makes me that anyone would presume to judge which criteria I use to make my parenting decisions and then imply that by making these decisions that I do not fit in with AP ideals. I find this sort of judgemental attitude offensive.

Originally Posted by dido1

Labelling is silly really, because all it does is make those of us who do not strictly adhere to one set of parenting rules or the other feel alone and unsupported.

Originally Posted by Bruden

Having just moved back to the US after having my two children in Sweden, I'm so surprised by conversations like this. Why compare? Why the need to one up each other or dismiss another person's parenting/philosophy? Of course I'm going to be drawn to people with like minded views but how does it affect my life if some person I've never met wants to call herself whatever.

My thoughts exactly to Bruden and Dido1!

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by dido1

My hot button is being labelled non-ap because we electively circ'd. I am conflicted about that decision and will answer to my son for it eventually if it becomes an issue for him. Everyone else who feels up for judging me on that topic can take a running leap. Sorry if you think that makes me non-AP but since I am extended bfing, co-sleep, babywear, cloth diapered for a long time, gd, etc., I don't really fit into the mainsteam parenting crowd either.

Labelling is silly really, because all it does is make those of us who do not strictly adhere to one set of parenting rules or the other feel alone and unsupported. I almost stopped posting here because my son is circed and I work full time, but I find more inspiration and likemindedness here than on any other parenting board so I continue to come here for parenting inspiration and thought provoking debates like this one :-)

Originally Posted by Danesmama

Galetea quoted me when asking how elective circ fits in with attachment parenting. Again I have to stress how steamed this makes me that anyone would presume to judge which criteria I use to make my parenting decisions and then imply that by making these decisions that I do not fit in with AP ideals. I find this sort of judgemental attitude offensive.

I find elective circ offensive. You are putting your thoughts and needs over the child's. Should we accept someone who chose to formula feed b/c she couldn't be bothered to breastfeed, and when she posts, say nothing b/c it might be judgmental? It is one thing to circ out of ignorance and then regret it, but to suggest that elective circ is an acceptable choice is the same as saying choosing to formula feed is an acceptable choice, and that is not okay here at MDC.

[Jwebbal]

Well... if being AP means that you do what is right for the child and not what is easiest for the parent, then circumcision doesn't fit in that. It is wrong for the child, and may assuage some feelings the parent has. Doesn't sound very AP.

As much as I don't like circumcision (which is a WHOLE lot), I find the above to not be the definition of AP. AP isn't always doing what is right for the child, what the hell is right anyway? I think you are confusing NFL with AP, NFL may be against elective circumcision, but AP doesn't have a word to say on the subject. Look at the various sites, Dr. Sears, API, and so forth. The two things are separate. There are things we do which we find are best for our babies, breastfeeding, cosleeping (and again I will say one doesn't have to cosleep to be AP, there are other ways), babywearing (again, not everyone can do this, and they are still AP), etc, etc. Galatea, if you pay attention the woman said she was conflicted about that decision, and many others have made that decision and then come here and found out they were uninformed. Let's not sit here and play judge and jury to every mom that comes along and decide whether she is AP enough to be here, I think that kind of attitude just pushes people away, and if we really care about children we will welcome them and use gentle ways to educate them to our way of thinking about stuff like this.

[dido1]

Ap

Originally Posted by Galatea

I find elective circ offensive. You are putting your thoughts and needs over the child's. Should we accept someone who chose to formula feed b/c she couldn't be bothered to breastfeed, and when she posts, say nothing b/c it might be judgmental? It is one thing to circ out of ignorance and then regret it, but to suggest that elective circ is an acceptable choice is the same as saying choosing to formula feed is an acceptable choice, and that is not okay here at MDC.

I totally understand and appreciate that elective circ is not supported by MDC, however, I don't feel that it is appropriate to label someone "not AP" because they made that choice in the past. People like myself who see this board as a place to learn and gathering parenting ideas are often driven away because they are made to feel "unworthy" for outing themselves as parents who chose to circ, formula feed, etc in the past. I think that unless someone is coming on here blatantly saying "Do this, it's the way" about topics that are not supported by MDC, they shouldn't be made to feel as though they are lesser "AP" parents. Instead of judging, blaming and naming, why not educate, explain your perspective and share your experiences and feeling respectfully instead of labelling? That was the point I was trying to make.

[MilkOnDemand]

So, do you get some sort of award for being the most AP parent around?

I don't see how elective circ could possibly fall into a definition of AP parenting - a very natural parenting technique. If you had your son done, does it make you a bad parent? I'm not here to judge, as I had my first DS circ'ed due to ignorance and left my second intact due to education. Does educated elective circ fall into AP - I don't think so at all.