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arguments against preschool? - Page 5

post #81 of 154
Interesting debate since we just started looking at preschools. Both dh and I work and we would like something for dd that has a little more structure than just daycare. The one we've found is set on a farm with a garden and greenhouse. The curriculum is child directed. They decide what chore to do and what activities to do, what overarching theme for the semester, etc., etc. I've never really considered preschool to be a "school" in that there is a set of skills a child must have at the end of it.

I probably would consider this particular preschool even if I were a SAHM mainly b/c I love what dd will be exposed to there. But I certainly wouldn't consider preschool a necessity.
post #82 of 154
You know, another reason I have considered sending DD to preschool is so she can have more caring adult figures in her life. We have absolutely no family anywhere nearby; DD adores her grandparents, but she sees them only a few times a year. I wish there were more adults just in her life as friends, but our friends tend to either be other parents of toddlers, who are understandably preoccupied by their own kids, or childless people who don't have much interest/experience with kids. I feel like DD has a very small "tribe," so to speak, and I think it might be a good thing for her to have other interesting, responsible, caring adults in her life. Also, although I try to give her exposure to art, music, the outdoors, etc, I am just one person, and other people are going to have different ways of interacting with her and different interests that could be very broadening to her.

But maybe this is a poor reason. ??? I'm really conflicted.
post #83 of 154
Chiming in pretty late here! Great discussion!

We did send our ds (now 5.5) to a cooperative preschool for all of the positive reasons that many people stated. And, for a while, we thought it was a good thing. However, in retrospect, I wish we'd never done it. We have a very senstive ds and we thought that giving a caring environment that was very free play/child led learning oriented would allow him to get over his fear of other children and make friends, get to know other caring adults. He did make new friends - kids he's still friends with, but there was a cost.

One of the costs is that my child was in an enviroment that most of the time was too much for him. Having 33 other kids in the same space was overwhelming for him. Having kids who were bigger than him (and more aggressive than him) only taught him who to avoid whenever they were around (and to be ever vigilant while in preschool). Not the stress free environment I was hoping for. In his last year at preschool, the focus for the pre-ks became getting them ready for kindergarten with more structured activities. That went over like a ton of bricks! My ds began to beg me to not go to preschool and I started to feel guilty for trying to meet his needs : - i.e. the director was giving me the evil eye when I stayed with him as long as needed (which oftentimes was the entire time there).

Another cost that I now recognize is that I lost an important connection with my son that I am currently trying to rebuild. I gave my son over to the "experts" and then felt guilty when my mamabrain was telling me something else. I also lost out on some precious, precious time with my son - that I can never have back. He was in afternoon preschool and I would say that we spent the entire morning getting ready to get out of the door (my ds is a person who takes a looong time to transition from one activity to another ). Then when he came home, it was time to get ready for dinner and bed - so the day was kind of all about preschool even though it was only 3 hours of our day.

We are now happily homeschooling and I wished I done it for preschool! I must say there were a couple of positive thing that the preschool did reveal to us - that we should homeschool - my dh was not open to it at all until he saw how miserable structured school was making our ds. There was also his best friend (who is now homeschooling as well) who he met at the coop - that's a plus. And the parent educations that they had only reinforced our ap/nfl style - and, ironically, led us to homeschool!

I would really listen to your instincts re: your child - that voice deep in your belly that KNOWS what is best for her. I wish I'd listened more - and now I know!

Good luck to you!



Michelle
post #84 of 154
imho no it's not a bad reason. It's actually one of dh's reasons for not wanting to homeschool exposure to other adults and learning critical thinking, etc., etc. He doesn't want dd's only "authority" figures to be us.
post #85 of 154
wow michelle... did he have 33 kids in his class at that preschool? Thats a lot If anything this thread has made me more aware of why I love our co-operative preschool. Kylas class has 5 kids in it total... its not full but the most they are allowed is 8 (with 1 teacher and 1-2 parents daily). There is no "Readying for kindergarten" here and the co-op has their own kindergarten that she will attend next year (taught by a good friend of mine).

After that we may homeschool, I havent decided yet.. but im thankful that I found the school I did after reading this thread
post #86 of 154
want to post but nak, will write more soon....
post #87 of 154
Joining the discussion very late in the game...

Our dd started preschool this year. She just turned 4. The reason we sent her to preschool is because it is part of the school she will be attending. It is a language immersion school (here in the US, not a Canadian immersion school) and as of kindergarten, everything is taught in the target language. These first years are for the kids to acquire the language. The school she goes to is called "International School" and over 50 countries are represented by the student population and is so culturally diverse it amazes even this world traveler. It is full-time, 5 days a week and except for a short quiet/nap time in the afternoon, it's like regular school. Dd loves it and is thriving there. She has made many friends and is rapidly progressing with the language. Over Christmas break, after about 2 weeks home, she bugged me every day about going to school she missed it so much. For us, it has been nothing but positive, although dd has picked up some bad behaviours we've had to deal with.

So, unfortunately, I have no personal arguments against it.
post #88 of 154
Oh My! 33 kids in one preschool class??? That is a lot!! My DS goes twice a week for a couple hours. There are 12 kids and 2 teachers and one assistant teacher. Parents are welcome to stay whenever they want. DS loves and trusts his teachers and has lots of fun playing with the other kids.

My feeling is do what is right for your child, you and your family. If you don't want your DC to go to preschool don't send them. We all have to do what is best for our kids. Who cares what anyone else thinks!
post #89 of 154
Actually, 33 in addition to ds were enrolled in his afternoon preschool group. There were 3 teachers and 5-6 parents working every day. It was a lot. Not all of the kids showed up everyday, mostly it ran in the 25-30 range - but there were days when EVERYONE was there!

There were also things that were mandatory for every child - such as two circle times per day. Ds didn't like either of them because he had to sing songs he didn't like and be counted by other kids who he may or may not have connected with.

Like I said, if I had to do it over again......

However, if there were a group of moms that wanted to get together and do a small free play/child led gathering a few days a week - now that would be fine with me - and probably with my kid. As long as it would have been ok for us not to show up all the time. But we now get that sort of thing with the homeschooling group park days -- it is twice a week - we can go and participate if we want or not. Mostly we go.

I just remembered, though, that the OP was looking for info about why preschool may not be so bad. I remember reading a study that just came out of University of California Berkeley saying that preschool was not as good for kids as they had previously thought. I'll see if I can dig up the link and post it. It might be the info you need for your dh.

Peace,

Michelle
post #90 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisalou
imho no it's not a bad reason. It's actually one of dh's reasons for not wanting to homeschool exposure to other adults and learning critical thinking, etc., etc. He doesn't want dd's only "authority" figures to be us.
Are you both comfortable with the idea that your daughter will trade you and your husband as authority figures for the Queen Bees in her immediate peer group?

I am personally not comfortable with that because I do not trust children to have the good judgment and wisdom that adults (ideally) do. I also find that children, particularly girls, value conformity to somewhat arbitrary social norms far higher than I think it is worth and in doing so, cause other girls to mask their own differences (including difference in intelligence). Many girl groups enforce conformity with what can be unbelievable viciousness.

There's a reason why the rates of anorexia and bulimia are very high among sorority women relative to other college women, to use just one example.
post #91 of 154
Found the links for the study. Hope this is helpful !

Here's one link:

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/r...1/01_pre.shtml

and another:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NGG3FH6VD1.DTL

and yet another:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=47322



Michelle
post #92 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

There's a reason why the rates of anorexia and bulimia are very high among sorority women relative to other college women, to use just one example.
Totally OT. This sort of cracks me up. Sorry. I am very much in the unschool camp so I am with you on the preschool discussion. But I was in a sorority (the prez for one year in fact and I currently advise this group) and did not have one fellow member with an eating disorder. Of course I went to an engineering college so all of us women were more "manish" than your typical sorority chicks I guess
post #93 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire
There's a reason why the rates of anorexia and bulimia are very high among sorority women relative to other college women, to use just one example.
I'm interested in the source of your stats as well. Are you suggesting that women in sororities are more susceptible to this kind of 'pressure'?

And yes, I too was in a house and knew no one who had this kind of issue...
post #94 of 154
Michelle,

None of those links worked for me.
post #95 of 154
Thread Starter 
Cenote/Michelle

None of your links worked.

CB has a point, however: here's a link from Brigham and Women's Hospital http://healthgate.partners.org/brows...ng%20Disorders

Athletics and Certain Professions

Athletes, such as dancers, jockeys, gymnasts, runners, wrestlers, and cheerleaders, tend to be at higher risk for eating disorders. Many coaches and teachers encourage thinness to achieve a competitive edge. They may advocate calorie counting and inappropriate loss of body fat. There is also a higher risk of eating disorders in models, actresses, entertainers, sorority members, and socialites, all of whom may experience social pressures to be thin.

I was also in a sorority and saw many negative behaviors, including severe pressure to be thin and count calories. I had borderline anorexia until I finally graduated and left that state (and state of mind) far behind me.


This would be an interesting topic for another thread.
post #96 of 154
post #97 of 154
Thread Starter 
Now they work! All the links refer to the same study.

From the first one:
Quote:
"The biggest eye-opener is that the suppression of social and emotional development, stemming from long hours in preschool, is felt most strongly by children from better-off families," said UC Berkeley sociologist and study co-author Bruce Fuller.

On average, the report finds that the earlier a child enters a preschool center, the slower his or her pace of social development, while cognitive skills in pre-reading and math are stronger when children first enter a preschool program between the ages of 2 and 3.
From the second:
Quote:
The study, with its good and bad news, is likely to fuel arguments on both sides of the preschool debate. Universal preschool advocates can seize on the findings that preschool benefits most children in language and math. Those who think scarce preschool resources should continue to go to the poorest children can point to the negative effects on social development, especially for children from the wealthiest families. The study looked not only at aggressive behaviors but also at a child's ability to cooperate and negotiate tasks in a classroom.
I think, having taught in preschools where most kids were from wealthy families, that the reason social and emotional development is lagging in this group of children is that the parents are just really busy with work and social stuff related to work. These kids are often in preschool from 6am to 6pm whereas middle class families tend to do whatever they can to minimize their childrens' time in daycare/preschool. This latter group can then spend more quality time with their children. I also think that much of what this study is referring to is based on all day, preschool/daycare and not just part time, a few hours a week preschool.

I also think that the arguments pro or con preschool really do vary from household to household, child to child, and school to school. This is why I started this thread as a way of finding support for what my intuition was telling me, that my child is not ready for preschool and that that is ok.
post #98 of 154
I guess I could have been clearer - it was one study - but I posted multiple links since the articles tend to have a slightly different take. Just my slightly anal thoroughness streak revealing itself!

Michelle
post #99 of 154
FWIW

I have a son with a Nov bday so when he turned 3 he did not qualify for the free state pre schools which is just a couple of hours per day

I do not have the money to pay for private preschool but have not really been stressed

he just recently started taking control of his potty destiny .

i recently signed him up for a preschool program through the park district
$30
2 hrs per week
some one asked me about the credentials etc..
i laughed
this is playgroup to me
a reason meet at a certain time 2 days per week
play groups have not worked for us
i feel that this just may be a glorified play group ...just what i am looking for !
post #100 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by boongirl
I think, having taught in preschools where most kids were from wealthy families, that the reason social and emotional development is lagging in this group of children is that the parents are just really busy with work and social stuff related to work. These kids are often in preschool from 6am to 6pm whereas middle class families tend to do whatever they can to minimize their childrens' time in daycare/preschool. This latter group can then spend more quality time with their children. I also think that much of what this study is referring to is based on all day, preschool/daycare and not just part time, a few hours a week preschool.

I find this shocking. First 6 am to 6 pm is day care NOT preschool.

Second, "wealthy" familes almost never have children in 12 hour day care. They use nannies and if a family is truly wealthy one parent often does not work.
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