Baby's dad's Arabic--what can I do??? - Page 2

[DahliaRW]

I would also think of what you would say to your son if he ever came up to you when he's older and asks why you allowed it to happen. I think "your dad wanted it done" would not be a satisfactory answer to a cut male. He'd still want to know why YOU did not protect him.

[MistyMM]

Originally Posted by blissmonkey

A lot of you have recommended that I give up the vegetarian part of the deal in exchange for keeping my son "intact". Well, you obviously don't know my DH! Even if I were to sacrifice the vegetartan part (which I would never do in a million years, as I feel even more strongly about that issue than I do circumcision)

I am going to be the first one to say this, and it may sound harsh, but sometimes the truth IS harsh (this is coming from a mom who HAS one cut son and one intact son and feels the pain and regret every day for allowing them to cut her child) how on EARTH could you feel more strongly about saving an ANIMAL FROM TORTURE then saving your own SON FROM TORTURE? There is something seriously wrong with the above statement.

[Frankly Speaking]

Blissmonkey, you should be very aware of where your son is and what's happening when he is alone with his Dad for an extended period of time. Especially prearranged time.

It's not likely that he can have him circumcised on a while-you-wait basis and that he will have to make an appointment to have it done. Thus, you need to make sure there is not a regular time that he is alone with him so that he could make an appointment ahead of time to have it done when you are regularly away. Most doctors will do it up until the 6th month but will not from months 6 through 12. That's because they will do it with no anesthesia before 6 months but with general anesthesia after 12 months and general anesthesia is very dangerous for babies less than a year old. During the months 6 - 12, your son will be fairly safe but after that, the danger begins again. Just give him no opportunity to have it done.



Frank

[LadyMarmalade]

Originally Posted by MistyMM

I am going to be the first one to say this, and it may sound harsh, but sometimes the truth IS harsh (this is coming from a mom who HAS one cut son and one intact son and feels the pain and regret every day for allowing them to cut her child) how on EARTH could you feel more strongly about saving an ANIMAL FROM TORTURE then saving your own SON FROM TORTURE? There is something seriously wrong with the above statement.

I saw the statement differently ... I see a mama here who is willing to do whatever she can to save her son but her DH's ears are closed to it. I think she's just highlighting how firm her DH is on this issue. She just has to be even firmer

Good luck, mama. I have no suggestions on how to convince your DH - mine was totally on board. If you do a search on ways to enlighten stubborn males in this forum I'm sure there will be some good suggestions.

[LadyMarmalade]

Here are a few links which may help

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...light=convince

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...light=convince

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...light=convince

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...nvince+husband

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...nvince+husband

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...nvince+husband

[MistyMM]

I disagree. She said "Even if I were to sacrifice the vegetartan part (which I would never do in a million years, as I feel even more strongly about that issue..." (vegetarianism) "than I do circumcision)"

which tells me that there is something really wrong here if a mother feels more strongly about protecting animals from torture, then protecting her son from torture. This statement screams issues to me. Like perhaps this mother doesn't realize the actual TRUTH behind circumcision and the harm that it causes. She said that her first son is intact, so, OP, I'm going to give you a taste of what I saw the first few days of my oldest sons life.

I had a screaming child, who wouldn't latch on (it took much effort) was always in deep sleep due to severe traumatization, and when I changed his diaper for the first time, after the mutilation, I peeled off the guaze gingerly and saw nothing but a SWOLLEN BLOODY STUMP. what was left of his perfect penis was destroyed. Sure, weeks later the glans hardened and became "normal" for a circ'ed penis. Have you seen the videos of circumcision? what about the pics? If you are having a hospital birth, did you know that circumcising your infant in the first few days at the hospital make them around 30% MORE likely to catch the strep that is antibiotic resistant flesh eating bacterium that can cost your child his LIFE? (see www.doctorsopposingcircumcision for their latest press release on this issue) Really, I think you need to start advocating for your CHILDREN as strongly or MORE SO then you do for some animals.

However, personally, if it were me, and my husband was insisting on mutilation (for ANY reason, including religious) I would divorce him and get a court order forbidding him from having one done. I see no reason to stay with a man who would willfully abuse my child in his first few days (again, coming from someone who did cut her first son because I didn't know better)

Misty

[LadyMarmalade]

You're right- I obviously didn't read the part in brackets carefully! Oops. Maybe I need more coffee (rough night last night, got woken up way too many times). Sorry about that.

[MistyMM]

Originally Posted by caloli

You're right- I obviously didn't read the part in brackets carefully! Oops. Maybe I need more coffee (rough night last night, got woken up way too many times). Sorry about that.

LOL no biggie, I just wanted to make sure it was clear that I wasn't picking on the OP or putting words in her mouth, she actually DID write that, and it makes me want to hurl just thinking about the kind of mindset that must take, to care more about animals than about your own kids rights? wow. That's all I can say.

[Unoppressed MAMA Q]

Originally Posted by MistyMM

LOL no biggie, I just wanted to make sure it was clear that I wasn't picking on the OP or putting words in her mouth, she actually DID write that, and it makes me want to hurl just thinking about the kind of mindset that must take, to care more about animals than about your own kids rights? wow. That's all I can say.

well, to offer a slight spin on that...
male infant genital mutilation is one (life-long) incident of torture, whereas eating animals inflicts torture on many, many creatures, over and over again...
not that i think it's in any way OK to cut a piece of a penis off, no way...but just maybe an insight.

[Kathryn]

Yes, but this is your own child. You protect your child above all else.

[MistyMM]

Originally Posted by Kathryn

Yes, but this is your own child. You protect your child above all else.

well said. That and the fact that you can buy humanely raised, pasteur fed well taken care of beef, chicken, turkey, etc as an alternative to the massive butcherhouse meat. I think it's a poor excuse to allow someone to sexually mutilate your child, and I also think (imo) that it's a sort of self righteous thing for a mother to say. Oh, I sacrificed the genital integrity of my child so that he doesn't contribute to the inhuman treatment of animals and can be rasied vegitarian. Aren't I great? but you know what? it's NOT HER FORESKIN to sacrifice. Period. She is not SELFSACRIFICING to save animals, to allow a child to be cut in a "comprimise" with a dh in order to raise him vegetarian is an abuse on the child, when the mother already KNOWS the truth about circumcision but will still agree to it.

Sorry, but the truth hurts.

[sadkitty]

You, know, I am a hardcore v*gan, have been for 13 years. My almost ten-year-old has never tasted meat. I never thought that any life was more valuable than the next. Then I had children and i can honestly say this...

...I would take a bite out of a live cow with my bare teeth before i allowed the COSMETIC AMPUTATION OF ONE OF THE MOST SENSITIVE PARTS OF MY CHILD'S ANATOMY WITHOUT (or even with) ANESTHETIC...

My children may choose to eat corpses or the lactate of a cow some day. My son may choose to have his penis scarred for life, but at that time IT WILL BE A CHOICE MY CHILD MADE! As a consenting and informed adult.

[pdx.mothernurture]

Originally Posted by sadkitty

...I would take a bite out of a live cow with my bare teeth before i allowed the COSMETIC AMPUTATION OF ONE OF THE MOST SENSITIVE PARTS OF MY CHILD'S ANATOMY WITHOUT (or even with) ANESTHETIC...

Abso-freakin'-lutely.

The comfort, safety, and wellbeing of your own flesh and blood should come above all else. It's the first and foremost sacred obligation of parenting.

Jen

[jessjgh1]

I don't know, I just think this could come down to another debate like would you ff or circumcise if you "had", too. NOt sure the thread needs to go in that direction.... there are still religious obstacles to overcome, and that is yet another debate (and one we are not allowed to have on this board)

So what does the OP need to help with husband? You keep saying it is not religion but culture... would it be helpful to know of others from that culture that refused circumcision... etc.

Those early days/weeks are so stressful I would think it would be better to have the issue resolved before your child's birth. Unless your dh is one of those that makes a big deal over something, but you kinda do what you want, a few days go by, and crisis over.-- However with circ, you'll need to have a united front if you are going to be dealing with his family, his culture, etc.

GL

Jessica

[Mutilated]

Do not cut your baby boy not matter what, it's his body HIS decision.

[Mutilated]

-double post

[darsmama]

Kathryn & Misty,

Yep. Well said.

[wahm2hanyas]

its part of the sunnah, or way of the prophet and what should be done for the boys, it is weak for the girls to do it, meaning that it is not much proof for the girls to do it but for the boys..it is not a age regarded as having to do it, the circ that is..I am muslim, raised in the us and now residing in egypt. and I will not allow my son to be circ till he is at the age that he decides to follow islam. now for my husband, he wants the sons done early, as it is easier for them, but I havent even gotten yasmeens ears pierced and only the polio vaccine. but islam is over culture so perhaps you can investigate and show him the proof/ daleel and then his ego will be softened, insha'Allah.
and their are many nice strong names, there are not nice names in all languages

[Stardust27]

Maybe this thread has some valuable information for the OP, as well:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=370229

Stardust

[blissmonkey]

Easier said than done!

Ok, I haven't had the time or energy to check this site lately, but here's my answer to a lot of people who obviously misunderstood my position on vegetarianism. First, let me just state for the record that I AM 100% OPPOSED to cutting my son. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT! Secondly, the vegetarian issue is completely irrelevant in this case, since he wouldn't accept that as a trade-off anyway. (A pretty sick and twisted trade-off it would be, too.) We made the compromise about religion/ vegetarianism long before we even conceived. At the time, it seemed like a good compromise and I hadn't even considered the circumcision thing. Honestly, it never even entered into my mind. As far as all those who claim I put the suffering of animals before the suffering of my child, I think you are not seeing the side I am. Again, as I said, I am NOT even wavering on the circ issue. I am 100% AGAINST it, but feel like I have no power over this (ya, it's his kid, too. Sometimes I think being a single mom was easier in a lot of ways.) The vegetarian issue here goes way beyond the suffering of animals...doesn't anyone see the long-term benefits of a vegetarian lifestyle, both physical and spiritual? Anyway, as I said, it's a moot point, since it's not on the bargaining table. What I need to know is, what do you do in a situation like mine? It's really easy for you to self-rightously say "I would never let someone cut my son" well, neither would I, but what if you felt unable to prevent it? I mean, aren't there any laws to prevent this? I'll know next month if we're having a boy or girl, and hopefully this won't even be an issue. (No, female circ. is NOT a Muslim tradition or custom--it is practiced in some cultures that happen to be Muslim, but it is not part of the religion, nor my husband's culture.)