Baby's dad's Arabic--what can I do??? - Page 3

[LadyMarmalade]

Originally Posted by blissmonkey

What I need to know is, what do you do in a situation like mine? It's really easy for you to self-rightously say "I would never let someone cut my son" well, neither would I, but what if you felt unable to prevent it? I mean, aren't there any laws to prevent this?

Truthfully? I'd divorce him and obtain any/all legal documents to prevent him from doing it behind my back. It's more important for my child not to be sexually mutilated. No religion or man is more important than the genital integrity of my child (and yes, I'm a religious person).

Please keep fighting for your son. Don't give up. You're implying that you feel unable to prevent it from being done (if it is indeed a boy) ... please don't be overwhelmed. Stay strong.

[blissmonkey]

Would that really be grounds for divorce? Would as judge see it as child abuse? Of course, even IF it went that far, he would get visitation, and be alone with the child. Realistically, would the child be better off with a foreskin but no father, and a bitter exhausted mother who has to leave him with a sitter so she can work like a dog to support her two kids? And what if I could actually educate him (ie: explain all the facts, then show him the horrible disgusting photos and disturbing videos, which I will!) and he agrees (even just to shut me up) and we take the baby to visit the family (who is VERY traditional) back in "the old country" My God, they could take the baby somewhere and have it done--and under third-world sanitation conditions! (I mean, I'm talking about a country where you can have your dental work done by a so-called "dentist" who walks the streets with a box of loose teeth and a pair of pliars! No joke!) I am getting freaked out about it the more I think about it. Other moms in this situation (esp. in a "mixed marriage" who got their husbands to change their minds) please, tell me, what did you say? What finally got through their thick skiulls?????

[goodcents]

bliss did you check the pamphlet presented here on islam and circ? as a muslim i found it very helpful. i just wish i found it before i circed.

[Dragonfly]

I won't pretend to have been in your position. I can tell you, from firsthand experience, that single motherhood is hardly about bitterness, constant exhaustion, and never seeing your children (unless that's what you make it, of course). You do have a very good point that divorcing him would not necessarily protect your child, though.

Honestly, you don't need to convince him. You just have to say "no." Period, no. If you give birth in a hospital, take a big, back sharpie marker with you and write "NO CIRCUMCISION" on every one of his diapers. Make your voice heard loud and often. Once your baby is home, keep him in your sight at all times.

Let your husband know how serious you are about this. Let him know that it is a dealbreaker and that if he insists, you will use every resource available to you to make sure he never has an opportunity to hurt your baby. Show him the information on Islam and circumcision. Tell him you know that his religion does not require it and, so, his need to do it is about him, not about the child.

If reason and expressing what is in your heart are not swaying him, perhaps you'll have to be fierce. It's worth it if it keeps your child from being mutilated, isn't it?

[pdx.mothernurture]

Originally Posted by blissmonkey

Would that really be grounds for divorce? Would as judge see it as child abuse? Of course, even IF it went that far, he would get visitation, and be alone with the child. Realistically, would the child be better off with a foreskin but no father, and a bitter exhausted mother who has to leave him with a sitter so she can work like a dog to support her two kids? And what if I could actually educate him (ie: explain all the facts, then show him the horrible disgusting photos and disturbing videos, which I will!) and he agrees (even just to shut me up) and we take the baby to visit the family (who is VERY traditional) back in "the old country" My God, they could take the baby somewhere and have it done--and under third-world sanitation conditions! (I mean, I'm talking about a country where you can have your dental work done by a so-called "dentist" who walks the streets with a box of loose teeth and a pair of pliars! No joke!) I am getting freaked out about it the more I think about it. Other moms in this situation (esp. in a "mixed marriage" who got their husbands to change their minds) please, tell me, what did you say? What finally got through their thick skiulls?????

You don't need to have "grounds" for a divorce in order to end a marriage. You can divorce, legally, for any reason. And, in states like mine which are 'no fault' divorce states, there isn't any weighing of whose fault it is with regard to how assets are divided up.

Remember, some people cut their daughters for cultural/religious reasons. What lengths would you go to protect your child if he was a daughter?

If your husband is unable to understand where you're coming from, he refuses to consider your concerns, and won't respect your wishes and maternal instincts or the inherrent right of your son to be free from non-medically indicated, amputative surgery...will he be able to love and respect the two of you in the other ways that matter?

I'm sorry you're going through this, and I agree it's a really tough situation but I also agree with others who have said that a child's genital integrity should never be on the table as a marriage bargaining chip...and if it gets to the point where it is, what kind of marriage is it anyway? KWIM?

Jen

[morning glory]

Why not ask your husband what makes his cultural belief that part of your son's body should be cut off more important than your personal belief that babies shouldn't be mutilated?

Casey

[DahliaRW]

This may be a long shot, but is it possible to get a court order so that the father can't have the child circ'd and for them to stay married? It may end the marriage to do so, but is it necessary to divorce to get such documentation?

Worst case, refuse. Never leave your dh alone with your son. Let your dh know that if he does it behind your back you will divorce him and sue for custody.

So sorry you're going through this.

[MistyMM]

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

I won't pretend to have been in your position. I can tell you, from firsthand experience, that single motherhood is hardly about bitterness, constant exhaustion, and never seeing your children (unless that's what you make it, of course). You do have a very good point that divorcing him would not necessarily protect your child, though.

Honestly, you don't need to convince him. You just have to say "no." Period, no. If you give birth in a hospital, take a big, back sharpie marker with you and write "NO CIRCUMCISION" on every one of his diapers. Make your voice heard loud and often. Once your baby is home, keep him in your sight at all times.

Let your husband know how serious you are about this. Let him know that it is a dealbreaker and that if he insists, you will use every resource available to you to make sure he never has an opportunity to hurt your baby. Show him the information on Islam and circumcision. Tell him you know that his religion does not require it and, so, his need to do it is about him, not about the child.

If reason and expressing what is in your heart are not swaying him, perhaps you'll have to be fierce. It's worth it if it keeps your child from being mutilated, isn't it?

This is what I would do, however if hubby was still making threats to do it, I would leave him. Why stay with someone willing to abuse my child?

Misty

[blissmonkey]

Info in French or Arabic?

Hi, everybody. Thanks for the replies and the links to more info. Truth is, I feel too exhausted now to read all the info out there. (There is SO much!) I'm holding off until after the next ultrasound which (hopefully) will tell us what we're having. Believe me, we have enough things to deal with right now without me dragging in this. I don't feel "up to" the giant debate and chaos. I know, I know, the ultrasound could be wrong, so I should be prepared, just in case. Does anyone know of any anti-circ websites available in French or Arabic? DH's English is pretty good, but reading English is tough for him, and I'm afraid he won't get the real meaning of what he's reading. If he reads it himself, it'll be more objective, and maybe he'll be more likely to make the sane decision, instead of filtering it through me, since I tend to get pretty worked up over stuff like this. (Then, it gets "personal" and, even if he agrees that I have a point, he may be too stubborn to admit it. *sigh!* men...honestly!!!!!) Sometimes I think men are just practice for eventually having to deal with children!!!!!:

[Dragonfly]

Originally Posted by MistyMM

This is what I would do, however if hubby was still making threats to do it, I would leave him. Why stay with someone willing to abuse my child?

Misty

It's an excellent point. But it's entirely true that, unless you can give a court some reason that your child should not be with his dad unsupervised, you will generally have much less control over what happens to your child as a single parent with shared custody than you will as a married parent with the opportunity to oversee every interaction.

[Stardust27]

Originally Posted by blissmonkey

Does anyone know of any anti-circ websites available in French or Arabic?

This is the site of a French anti-circumcision organisation: Association contre la mutilation des enfants

They also have Sami A. Aldeeb Abu-Salieh's long essay "To Mutilate in the Name of Jehovah or Allah" in French (Mutiler au nom de Yahvé ou d'Allah).

And another one in Canada: http://www.infocirc.org/bienven.htm

The only thing I know of in Arabic is the translation of the Ashley Montagu Resolution to end the Genital Mutilation of Children Worldwide, but that might not be exactly what you're looking for.

Stardust