What would you have said?

[finn'smama]

I had a client today, she had a baby six days ago (she didn't bring the baby!!). She decided not to breastfeed. She didn't even try.: She told me all about why she chose not to-she has a "phobia" of milk, she was nervous about bf in public and around relatives, she can't seperate sex/breastfeeding and she said she was having terrible anxiety about it until she just decided she wouldn't even try and then she felt better. I think it was hard for me because I didn't want to make her feel bad-she's a nice girl and I'm sure she'll be a good mom-but I wanted to give that baby a voice, kwim? At one point in our conversation about it, I mentioned that it wasn't too late to try (she was obviously very full of milk still), but she didn't respond. That's all I could say. Would anyone have done or said anything different? This is really bothering me...everyone I know has bf or at least given it a shot, so I've never encountered this situation before, and it's just making me so sad.

[teacup]

I probably would have said what you did: You can still try, if you're interested.

She's obviously not interested. Some people aren't. There's nothing you could have said (unless you're a therapist) that would illuminate a lightbulb over her head. Some people have body issues that run pretty deep. She has them. Like you said, it doesn't mean she'll be a poor mother.

It makes me a little sad too.

[lauraess]

what kind of client was she? I just wondered if somehow the two could be linked together to give you more of an opportunity to tla it over.

I guess she has made up her mind.. although giving her info on the real benefits could help in the future if she hasnt already heard/read about them.

It is hard to let go of these situations where for some reason we really feel the loss for the baby.

[Meiri]

I would have tried to find a way to suggest she get some counselling for that problem. That is not normal.

[NYCVeg]

Maybe, given the nutritional and immunilogical benefits of bfing, suggest pumping, at least part time? It's less ideal than feeding at the breast, but at least the baby would get some bm, and it would help her avoid issues of NIP or in front of family/friends.

[finn'smama]

I'm a hairstylist and she's a long time client. So I've seen her from the beginning of her pregnancy. She always talked about having an aversion to bf, but she said she would try, but deep down, I think she knew she wouldn't. It's funny, because I have a 10 month old nursling and I've always nursed in front of her and she always seems admire our nursing relationship. I'm not judging her, I just feel bad for the babe and I'm feeling like I wish I could have said just the right thing to change her mind.

[finn'smama]

I asked her if she was pumping at all and she said no. She said also that formula these days is "just about as good"!!! I don't think she would pump anyway, because she mentioned today that it makes her gag to milk the cows at work (she works in a vet hospital). She has some serious isssues...which she recognizes.

[Tori Gollihugh]

Originally Posted by finn'smama

I had a client today, she had a baby six days ago (she didn't bring the baby!!). She decided not to breastfeed. She didn't even try.: She told me all about why she chose not to-she has a "phobia" of milk, she was nervous about bf in public and around relatives, she can't seperate sex/breastfeeding and she said she was having terrible anxiety about it until she just decided she wouldn't even try and then she felt better. I think it was hard for me because I didn't want to make her feel bad-she's a nice girl and I'm sure she'll be a good mom-but I wanted to give that baby a voice, kwim? At one point in our conversation about it, I mentioned that it wasn't too late to try (she was obviously very full of milk still), but she didn't respond. That's all I could say. Would anyone have done or said anything different? This is really bothering me...everyone I know has bf or at least given it a shot, so I've never encountered this situation before, and it's just making me so sad.

I think the main thing I would have added would have been an expression of my FEELING about the situation... "Gosh, that's really sad for your baby to miss those wonderful antibodies and the physical closeness to you while nursing!" Something like that, probably.

It DEFINITELY depends on your relationship, though. See, I know lots of ladies at my church are really NOT interested in hearing anything I have to say about natural "whatever" and EBFing. I feel apart and seperate from them because of this, but I also know there really isn't much point in mentioning these things to certain women. If there was a new mama OR someone whose position I didn't know, I would still try to express my opinion in some way, shape, or form. Unfortunately, the MAINSTREAM ways run rampant among the church ladies (which seems to really be contrary to things we supposedly believe... but what can you REALLY do except try to be true to yourself!?).

[Salema]

I think it can be really difficult to maintain respect for other people's choices when they are so different from our own.

I think you did the right thing.
It sounds like you were sweet and empathetic and a good teacher (by letting her watch you nurse and talking about your nursing relationship).

We can't change everyone.

But maybe someday, someone will ask her about bf'ing, and she will say, "I know some people who bf and they say it's great."

I've had a couple of friends choose not to nurse or choose to let baby CIO or choose not to co-sleep or choose to spank (family - I can't get away from them. I don't think I could have a friend who hit their kids...) It's really hard to watch that and be supportive, but sometimes all we can be are the quiet voices, standing up for kids everywhere.

Since she is a client, you can continue to talk to her about the benefits of other love she can bestow on her baby, even if she has chosen not to bf. If you had insulted her or made her feel bad, she might never have come back, and then you wouldn't get to talk to her about any of the choices that she'll face as she learns to parent.

Just my 2 cents.

[Realrellim]

Originally Posted by finn'smama

...because she mentioned today that it makes her gag to milk the cows at work (she works in a vet hospital). She has some serious isssues...which she recognizes.

Given that she has, as you pointed out, serious issues, I think it's a situation where it probably doesn't matter. Clearly, she needs counseling for these issues, and I'm not sure that encouraging her to give it a try anyhow would help given the seriousness of her own mental state. It would be a bit like telling a woman with severe PPD to try to think more positively, KWIM?

In most cases, I think it's worth talking it up a bit because the NIP issue usually seems like a more of a hurdle than it is, for example. But to a woman who finds milking cows problematic...well...counseling is definitely in order. It sounds like there might be some abuse issues there that she's dealing with too, perhaps?

[Icequeen_in_ak]

I take the compassionate approach. I always say "oh... I know how hard it is... and it's really tough to deal with the social pressures associated with breastfeeding.... BUT.... "

And then go into my story about how insecure I was when I first had my daughter, but how thankful I am that I didn't give up (we had a very rough road... failure to thrive, sns, pumping, supplementing, etc.) and then go into my success story and comment on how healthy and vibrant and intellengent and beautiful my child is and how we still nurse at almost 3 (although she's weaning now).

I try very hard not to come across harsh, because that is what they expect... they expect to be attacked. I try to empathize and show them the path forward.

Realistically though... the mama has to WANT to do it for her child.

[RadiantMama]

pump!

Love the responses...YES

CALL HER
and tell her
that depriving the child
of the nutrients in her milk
could be considered abusive
(i know that's rough, maybe tone it down)

Unless she is on drugs or smoking
she should give the baby the milk

she can PUMP!!!
(then if it turns her on...have sex!)

[finn'smama]

Originally Posted by Salema

I think it can be really difficult to maintain respect for other people's choices when they are so different from our own.

That is so true. It was difficult, because I didn't want to come off as preachy or judgemental (even though, if I'm honest, I was judging her in my head ). Anyway, I've had a day to think about it and I think I would handle it the same way if I could do it over. I feel like I should have said more during her pregnancy when she mentioned she may not bf...I just assumed she'd change her mind!

[laohaire]

I would not have said anything at all to make her feel bad or convince her to change her mind.

Imagine if she tried to nurse, given the serious issues she has. Don't you think it would possibly negatively affect her relationship with her baby? I would think it would be much better to be a happy, calm, loving mom that doesn't nurse than to be an angry, upset mom that struggles to nurse and then inevitably fails and possibly continues to feel negativity toward the baby long after then nursing relationship was over.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge advocate of breastfeeding and would try to talk many into doing it. But some women, due to being screwed up by society, are not going to have healthy nursing relationships no matter what. And I don't think the advice of their hairdresser is likely to somehow make such a woman suddenly change their entire attitudes toward such a sensitive, personal topic. I think since such a burden was lifted for her when she decided not to try, that it sounds like the right choice for her.

[teacup]

Salema, I really appreciate your response.

[amyers]

I agree with the pp who said that without help for her other issues the mama may do more harm by "forcing" herself to bf. I have spent MANY hours, over a period of YEARS, getting over an "irrational" phobia. (Thankfully, it wasn't for bf!!!) Even when looking at it myself, it doesn't make sense to hyperventilate in that situation. But I still did. For a new mother to have to put herself through while interacting with her baby could cause even more issues with mom, and who knows what it would do to baby? I think that if she was serious about it, she should have started dealing with her phobia before the baby.

I appreciate that you handled the situation the way you did. I think that by keeping it non-judgemental and low key, if she ever decides to have another child, you may be able to influence her to get the help she needs in tim for that baby . . .

Ang

[Ruthla]

I think you handled it well. You informed her that relactation is possible and suggested pumping as an alternative to formula. She's not interested- at this point I'd encourage her in other aspects of AP (ie, snuggle while bottlefeeding, no propping bottles, babywearing, responding to the baby ASAP, etc.)

[finn'smama]

Originally Posted by Meiri

I would have tried to find a way to suggest she get some counselling for that problem. That is not normal.

I was talking about this with my sister today, we were wondering if her OB recognized this and if he recommended any help for her. I know that her doctor's were really trying to get her to at least try bf, so they must have had an idea about how she felt.

It's been interesting to hear everyone's point of view about this. I'm happy with the way I handled it I think. Given the fact that she does have some deep seeded issues around this, it probably is best for her and her babe that she does it this way...

I still feel sad for the baby though...can't help it.

[Avocado]

I had a similar situation the other day. My dh and I were having dinner with friends who have a 1 month old... We hadn't seen them since their ds was born. While she was pregnant, I asked if she planned on bf'ing and she said "yes, for sure", and I told her that the first few weeks can be really hard but, not to give up because it gets better, and I went on and on, of course, about how wonderful bf'ing is and about all of the benefits ... So, the other night, one of the first things I asked is "how is breastfeeding going?"- her reply was "Oh, I quit that at 2 weeks!" as she laughs "It was just too hard, I needed sleep and he was 'cluster-feeding' like, every hour! Now Brian can feed him and I can actually get some sleep!" Mind you, she does not work and she had a fairly easy vaginal birth (I only mention that because I had a C-section and they gave me a spinal, which did not work, then an epidural, so afterwards I was groggy and throwing up- THEN, my incision split wide open AND when I first tried to bf in the hospital I had dd latched wrong and the result was bleeding scabbed nipples and the worse pain I've yet to experience in my life- and I still managed to breastfeed successfully!! (nipple shields rock!)). So, when she mentioned the "cluster feeding", I said "Oh that's actually very normal for babies to eat every hour or even more than that- especially in the first weeks and/or when they're going through a growth spurt... That's probably why my incision split open, ya know, getting up so much to feed her." (I really don't know why my incision split, but I wanted to rub it in that it happened and I'm still bf'ing). Ugh. I was so frustrated not only that she gave up so easily, but that she was actually trying to explain to how "hard" it is! Like I haven't been bf'ing for almost 11 months! On top of it all, her poor ds was in his carseat the whole time and when she gave him his : formula, she PROPPED the bottle with a blanket! *sigh*

I made a point to bf as much as possible throughout our meal...

[AmandaBL]

I don't think you could

have done much more than what you did. I'm also a stylist & I tell all my prego clients that if they choose not to breastfeed, my services are no longer avaliable. They laugh at first. I've lost 2 clients to this so far. Somehow, when they come in complaining of reflux & ear infections & colic they are not pacified by my touting of the benefits of breastmilk (& believe you me, I have ranted & raved about these throughout their pregnancies!!!) One of the lost clients was a cardiologist & I told he point blank that she knows better. She didn't even breastfeed for the 2 weeks she was home with the baby (and the live in nanny). Whatever. I also point out that there is no shame is making the choice to remain child free. I just don't get it. As far as supporting & encouraging breastfeeding, I think you did all you could. Let them know that at any point they can make an effort to relactate. It breaks my heart though, as I'm sure it does yours. What's sadder is that I have a client currently who is dreading trying to find a new stylist after her partner's baby is born. Really - finding someone to provide her with fantastic highlights is causing her more trauma than choosing to feed her child substandard food.