No recess as punishment

[kewb]

I just sent a note off to my ds's principal. Based on the details I have so far my ds took goldfish crackers, threw them on the floor and proceeded to stomp on them. This is unacceptable behavior and he should have been made to clean up the mess he made. My friend, who picked him up for me today, told me that the lunch aide has taken away recess for tomorrow.

This is unacceptable to me -and I let the principal know it. Now, however, I am doubting myself. Am I correct in my thinking that this is unacceptable and should be stepping in or will I be viewed as one of those pain in the neck moms who will not let the school do its job?

[Sharlla]

This was standard practice at most schools I went to. In middle school or higher they just call it detention though. Elementary they would write your name on the board as a warning and each check you got meant how many mins of recess you lost and the 4th check you were sent to the office. I would know, haha, I was always getting in trouble.

[tboroson]

It is, or at least was, common practice. However, I think it's an absurd practice. Recess isn't a "treat", it's a chance for physically active young kids to run off steam. How on earth do they expect a child to behave sitting behind a desk the rest of the day if they take away that outlet? It's a very inappropriate and counterproductive punishment.

[trolley]

Originally Posted by tboroson

It's a very inappropriate and counterproductive punishment.

What would be a better punishment? I was thinking making him clean up the mess, but some parents would throw a fit, saying that their kid was embarrassed in front of the other kids for doing "the janitor's job".

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by trolley

What would be a better punishment? I was thinking making him clean up the mess, but some parents would throw a fit, saying that their kid was embarrassed in front of the other kids for doing "the janitor's job".

I think that's silly. Cleaning up after yourself is a lifeskill, not a "janitor's job". Cleaning up the mess is absolutely a natural and logical consequence. If one felt the need to take it further, perhaps he shouldn't get goldfish crackers the next day, but even that's a bit much to me.

[lauraess]

I think taking away recess is a crime! Kids absolutely need outdoor time and even with one recess it's not enough time for a kid to be outdoors and engaging in nature and their bodies. But, that's another subject sorta.

What is so hard to understand about the need for a child to be responsible for their mess, clean it up and then ... uh let it go perhaps? for gosh sakes--- life gets tough, kids do stuff--- big deal. so a little spillage. Taking away recess is trully wrong.

go fight for your childs rights and others.. since i hear this is common.

[lauraess]

Originally Posted by kewb

This is unacceptable to me -and I let the principal know it. Now, however, I am doubting myself. Am I correct in my thinking that this is unacceptable and should be stepping in or will I be viewed as one of those pain in the neck moms who will not let the school do its job?

I believe that stepping in would be more like letting the school know they dont have the job of complete and utter control no-matter how ridiculous. I say BE A PAIN IN THE NECK, BE a PAIN IN THE REAR--Moms need to support their kids not let school society take over.

[trolley]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I think that's silly. Cleaning up after yourself is a lifeskill, not a "janitor's job".

I threw that thought out there since I know a teacher who was absolutely raked over the coals because she made a child clean up a mess he made and the parents flipped out about it, saying she embarrassed him in front of the other kids, and she will never again make him do what they pay janitors to do.

[lauraess]

Originally Posted by trolley

I threw that thought out there since I know a teacher who was absolutely raked over the coals because she made a child clean up a mess he made and the parents flipped out about it, saying she embarrassed him in front of the other kids, and she will never again make him do what they pay janitors to do.

Wow, how elitist.

[hellyaellen]

they do this at dds school (k-1st). i think its counterproductive but i haven't made a big deal about it. i just try to make sure she makes up for it at home. kudos to you for approaching the school about it.!!!

[kewb]

I got some more details from my son last night. It was him and another child who smashed the crackers. They were made to clean it up (which is 100% appropriate and more in line with my thinking). When I asked him about recess he said he does not remember the lunch aide saying anything about it.

Here is the principals response:
Please talk to the classroom teacher to determine what happened at lunch time.* She can speak to the aide.* When youngsters misbehave during recess-- especially when it is an indoor recess-- it is not uncommon to have the child lose recess on another day.* I cannot determine the severity of the offense, if it is the first time it happened, or the details of the incident.*There are a limited number of consequences available to the aides at lunchtime-- and it is important that the children respect and listen to the aides who are responsible for their safety.* Believe me, we do not want to limit activity at lunchtime, either! Children need time to unwind... but they also need to know that rules must be followed.*

I swear, she is like the teflon don. Nothing sticks to her.

[TeaBag]

I agree. Expecially for the "offense". I think that taking away the only time in a 6-7 hour day of pure activity is truly wrong.

That being said, I know that my ds' school policy is the same. For example, he told me one day that they only had one recess that day. I was upset adn asked why. "Well, we were talking and didn't finish our work, so Miss. _________ said we had to stay in at recess and finish it." Which I found to be appropriate, mostly because this teacher is a firm believer in very little homework. Her logic is that they do their work at school, so that they can just be children after school and not be chained to 30-60 minutes of homework. I've been told by other parents that this is the norm in the other 1st grade classes! That bothers me. So, no recess, or finish his work at home; personally, I find no recess to be appropriate. And, they still have 3 recesses in 1st grade here, so it wasn't like he lost all his running/playing time, kwim?

[TeaBag]

Originally Posted by kewb

I
I swear, she is like the teflon don. Nothing sticks to her.

I'm sorry, but this made me :

[mammastar2]

I agree that taking away children's physical activity isn't a good idea. In addition:

a. it sets up a really negative dynamic - after all, your child is being 'punished' by having to stay inside the school: what does that say about school and how he should view it?

b. providing a 'consequence' for inappropriate behavior the day after the event is not age-appropriate and ineffective.

[boongirl]

It is likely that that taking away tomorrow's recess when you misbehave during today's recess is part of the culture of that school. This is the case in many schools. Your son likely knew this but did not think ahead when he smashed the crackers. Kids don't often think first before they act so I doubt your son expected that he would lose recess if he smashed crackers. The principal is right in saying the the recess aides have limited punitive resources. But, that does not make it right to take away a recess. When I was teaching, I hated taking away a child's recess because it also meant I was losing my recess break, often the only time I had to go to the bathroom. Also, kids need physical activity and they are getting less and less these days. There are two movements currently going on in the field of education in this country. One is taking away recess for punishments and increased learning time. The other is to try to get recess returned to schools. The National Assocation for the Education of Young Children has a great article about the importance of recess. Another organization, The American Association for a Child's Right to Play has many great articles about the importance of recess and play.

If it were my child who lost her recess, I would print off some of these references and send them in to the principal and classroom teacher with a note stating that I value recess as much as what is going on in the classroom and do not ever, for any reason, want my child to loose recess. If they have a problem with that, they can contact you and you can come up with other ideas for handling your child's misbehavior, should it happen again.

[Altair]

i agree it's not an ideal punishment.

however, there are 3 issues that many public school teachers face (not sure if your school is public):

1. there are few meaningful consequences they are allowed to use. as mentioned earlier, even common sense consequences (clean up the mess) can be argued with.

2. maintaining discipline for an entire class involves being stricter than when you deal with only a few kids at a time.

3. there are children coming into K already with EXTREME behaviors. there is a culture of many parents wanting to push off school discipline.. to not deal with the issues. (of course, i'm not saying this about the OP! there is, however, a trend towards parents allowing children to break school rules)


classroom management is THE biggest issue facing PS teachers today... bigger than high stakes testing.

I think if someone solves those 3 problems, he or she will be a millionaire.


soooo.. in light of that, I can see how parents who use GD at home would be surprised/offended at the consequences used in PSs. the simple truth is, everyone is not going to be happy. you would rather your child clean it up. some parents would rather no snack the next day. some would rather nothing.

I don't know where I'm going with this.

[calicokatt]

I pulled my daughter out of school over this very issue. She was repeatedly missing recesses to make up for late classwork. I had TWO conferences with the teacher and the principal, both times, was assured that my daughter would miss no more recesses, and both times, she did. There were 2 occassions on which she had NO RECESS AT ALL- for the ENTIRE day! I happened to drive by the school one day during recess, so I walked to her class to see if she was there, sure enough, she was. I grabbed the nearest trash sack, tipped her desk into it, and told her to gather the rest of her stuff. All to a chorus of "you can't just walk in here and take her!" from the teacher. The arguments I used were : If I worked at the school for the length of time my daughter is there during they day, they would be required by law to give me two 15 minute breaks and a half hour lunch. My daughter was 8 years old at the time, with a much shorter attention span, and she was being denied her recesses on a regular basis. I told the principal she would be back when they could place her with a different teacher. I had already requested this twice, but they felt it was too late in the year. Two days later, they phoned me with a new teacher for her. By the time I got her out of there, she HATED school, which she had always loved. Every year since then, I meet with the new teacher at the beginning of the year to discuss recess. We have come across no more recess nazi's since then, thankfully.
Recess is not optional in my book. It is time they NEED to let down, unwind, play, whatever lets off stress and tension for them, as well as time to build social skills which will serve them just as well later in life as the materials the teachers want them to 'make up' during recess time.

[kewb]

I had parent teacher conference last week and discussed this issue with his teacher.
They did not take his recess away, instead he had quiet lunch. No talking during lunch. I don't love that either, but at least he got recess.

As it turns out my ds neglected to mention the classroom rules of conduct/consequences contract that the class did at the beginning of the year. All the students had input into what the class rules would be and what the consequences would be (recess removal was one of them). Then after all the students agreed they traced their hand, cut it out and wrote their name in is and attached to the contract as their signature. From a democratic standpoint I thought the contract was a good idea. However, recess removal-even if the students agreed is not.

If it wasn't for the fact that I work full time I would seriously consider homeschooling.

[lauraess]

Originally Posted by kewb

I had parent teacher conference last week and discussed this issue with his teacher.
They did not take his recess away, instead he had quiet lunch. No talking during lunch. I don't love that either, but at least he got recess.

As it turns out my ds neglected to mention the classroom rules of conduct/consequences contract that the class did at the beginning of the year. All the students had input into what the class rules would be and what the consequences would be (recess removal was one of them). Then after all the students agreed they traced their hand, cut it out and wrote their name in is and attached to the contract as their signature. From a democratic standpoint I thought the contract was a good idea. However, recess removal-even if the students agreed is not.

If it wasn't for the fact that I work full time I would seriously consider homeschooling.

Yes the idea of children of that age coming up with their own consequences Sounds good but still an adult needs to help choose which ones are appropriate or not and gosh, if kids could already know what was appropriate or not they wouldnt need us adults so much would they? The teacher should have decided for them that taking away recess would be something they shouldnt be faced with. I bet one reason your son 'neglected' to tell you about the rules is that they just didnt stand out to him as they were meant to. I wish educators would put a little more time into having positive experiences with the kids than so much 'eagle-eyed-reprimanding'.

[numom499]

Originally Posted by calicokatt

I pulled my daughter out of school over this very issue. She was repeatedly missing recesses to make up for late classwork. I had TWO conferences with the teacher and the principal, both times, was assured that my daughter would miss no more recesses, and both times, she did. There were 2 occassions on which she had NO RECESS AT ALL- for the ENTIRE day! I happened to drive by the school one day during recess, so I walked to her class to see if she was there, sure enough, she was. I grabbed the nearest trash sack, tipped her desk into it, and told her to gather the rest of her stuff. All to a chorus of "you can't just walk in here and take her!" from the teacher. The arguments I used were : If I worked at the school for the length of time my daughter is there during they day, they would be required by law to give me two 15 minute breaks and a half hour lunch. My daughter was 8 years old at the time, with a much shorter attention span, and she was being denied her recesses on a regular basis. I told the principal she would be back when they could place her with a different teacher. I had already requested this twice, but they felt it was too late in the year. Two days later, they phoned me with a new teacher for her. By the time I got her out of there, she HATED school, which she had always loved. Every year since then, I meet with the new teacher at the beginning of the year to discuss recess. We have come across no more recess nazi's since then, thankfully.
Recess is not optional in my book. It is time they NEED to let down, unwind, play, whatever lets off stress and tension for them, as well as time to build social skills which will serve them just as well later in life as the materials the teachers want them to 'make up' during recess time.

Good for you!