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Do they need consent for a tox screen? - Page 3

post #41 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama
Lots of mamas here on MDC smoke during pregnancy and breastfeeding. Let's not insult a whole group of ppl with misinformation and hysteria.
I am not hysterical, or misinformed.

I doubt anything I say would insult anyone here at MDC.

Like I said in my previous post, there is plenty of research on both sides of this issue. I found quite a few websites that back up what I said, and I know that there are plenty of websites that would argue otherwise.

Personally, I dont smoke it and never have. Besides, with my profession I am subjected to random drug tests, so its a no-no. I could get fired and possibly lose my license.
post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetbaby3

Like I said in my previous post, there is plenty of research on both sides of this issue. I found quite a few websites that back up what I said, and I know that there are plenty of websites that would argur otherwise.
Right. So mamas get to make our own choices. And we should also get to choose whether we are tested for drugs or not.
post #43 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama
Right. So mamas get to make our own choices. And we should also get to choose whether we are tested for drugs or not.
But the choices we make can and do, impact others.
post #44 of 65
I'm sure I'm stupid enough to go to the doctor and say, "Hey, can you test and see if my pot smoking caused my son's problems?" Yeah right. Why don't I just save them trouble and call CPS myself?
post #45 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel
I'm sure I'm stupid enough to go to the doctor and say, "Hey, can you test and see if my pot smoking caused my son's problems?" Yeah right. Why don't I just save them trouble and call CPS myself?
Well, you could do that. Although considering that the medical community as a whole has no concrete evidence that smoking pot causes damage you may have a hard time getting any answers! And CPS prolly wouldn't be called.
post #46 of 65
post #47 of 65
2Sweeties1Angel, I'm sorry that your son has asthma & ADHD. I'm sure that it must be difficult to deal with at times, & I can understand the need to try & find answers when children have health problems. But this attitude worries me, tbh.

Quote:
Well, if you aren't doing drugs while you're pregnant you won't have anything to worry about.
I'm sorry, but *nobody* gets to police my pregnancies except me. Not even DH.

What if we started testing mothers to make sure that they have the optimal nutrition during pregnancy? I mean, sure, a lot of us here do that already, but what if, say, we were forced by legislation to turn up at the doctor's office for our daily folate supplement in the first trimester & vitamin injections thru to delivery? What if we were forced to vax our kids or risk losing custody? What if we were forced to give birth in a hospital surgery theatre, just in case 'something' goes wrong?

Oh wait. That already does happen in much of the world, except for the folate part.....

Guess I'll go reserve my stall in the Breeder Barn now. I hope they feed me nice hay for optimal nutrition.
post #48 of 65

I have been following this thread...

and I really cannot believe how ignorant people can be. If you did not know by the word "ignorant" I mean uneducated, misinformed, and just plain stupid.

It is good to know we all have medical degrees and have performed these tests ourselves to know what causes what. You can find support for any cause whether you are a MJ junkie or a member of some crazy religous cult that wears Nike's and commits mass suicide.

If you believe it is safe to smoke MJ while you are pregnant, around your kids, while driving to church...whatever. You are fooling yourself. period!
Luckily I am smart enough to know that and not subject my children to that. I can only be responsible for myself. People make poor choices all the time.

Also chances are if you are smoking pot you did not pick it up as a nifty little habit to curb morning sickness. Who gave you your drugs? Where did they get them? Where did that person get them? Great habit to get yourself into when you have children that you need to be responsible for.

If anybody is offended by this e-mail then well I have done my job!~
post #49 of 65
babydoll, I don't know why on earth you *want* to offend anyone over this particular topic. Perhaps you just simply don't care that other people have a different point of view to yours. Dunno. Personally, I simply think that over-exposure to the D.A.R.E. program has addled your brain.

Quote:
It is good to know we all have medical degrees and have performed these tests ourselves to know what causes what.
And please. Let's not start whipping out degrees here as proof that one's point of view is the most valid. I can read PubMed without a medical degree- the abstracts that are available to the public anyway. And if you have access to the full paper of the Swedish study (yes, I looked at 2Sweeties links) & want to pass it on to me via a pm, that would be great. It sounds interesting, altho I have reservations about it coming from Sweden. Not that I have anything against the Swedes, but they have a noticibly low proportion of cannabis smokers in the general population. And if you dig a littler deeper, you also find out that Sweden has her own political agenda when it comes to (illegal) drug usage. Not that that, in any way, would ever bias a major research project.... never happens, not in any field, right? So, I wouldn't mind reading the paper myself before I comment any further on it, kwim?

Quote:
You can find support for any cause whether you are a MJ junkie or a member of some crazy religous cult that wears Nike's and commits mass suicide.

My point exactly. Altho I do take exception to your term 'MJ junkie'. Not offense. Just exception.
post #50 of 65
And anyway, weren't we talking about doctors obtaining proper consent for medical procedures performed on our own bodies?
post #51 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by babydoll
It is good to know we all have medical degrees and have performed these tests ourselves to know what causes what.
Don't need to havea medical degree to know what causes what. And don't even need to have it to perform these tests (lab techs don't have medical degrees; I was one for a while). Don't need a medical degree to determine what is within the range of 'normal' as those values are widely available.

Don't need a medical degree to complete many chemical and biological processes every day; most people call that eating and breathing.

I *don't* do drugs, I'd consider smoking MJ that I grew myself so I know it wasn't messed with *if* my morning sickness was bad enough that I'd lose the baby.

I think it's sad that people like me have to have their privacy invaded if they want to seek medical attention to help their baby. That's all.

Cara
post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiemum
I'm sorry, but *nobody* gets to police my pregnancies except me. Not even DH.

What if we started testing mothers to make sure that they have the optimal nutrition during pregnancy? I mean, sure, a lot of us here do that already, but what if, say, we were forced by legislation to turn up at the doctor's office for our daily folate supplement in the first trimester & vitamin injections thru to delivery? What if we were forced to vax our kids or risk losing custody? What if we were forced to give birth in a hospital surgery theatre, just in case 'something' goes wrong?

Oh wait. That already does happen in much of the world, except for the folate part.....
That is exactly what I'm afraid of also. Where would it stop?
post #53 of 65
I guess I just can't leave this thread alone tonight......

A final thought (I swear!) before I go to bed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel
I'm sure I'm stupid enough to go to the doctor and say, "Hey, can you test and see if my pot smoking caused my son's problems?" Yeah right. Why don't I just save them trouble and call CPS myself?
Mama, I am not for one second suggesting that you say any such thing to your doctor! Okay? If you lived in Britain, or parts of Australia, I might suggest differently. But definitely not in Missouri- too risky, imo.

But i am concerned that you are taking on a lot of guilt over your son's health problems based on what you have read in current medical journals & your own knowledge of your past history. To be frankly honest in my opinion. I dunno. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree. But I don't like to see any mama being too hard on herself for whatever reason. Remember the wise Ms. Angelou- when we know better, we do better.
post #54 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiemum
And anyway, weren't we talking about doctors obtaining proper consent for medical procedures performed on our own bodies?
There have been threads about consent before, and the only reason I can think of as to why the ER doctor doesnt ask permission for each individual test, is that when you sign in at the Triage desk, or wherever it is at your hospital, every single patient must sign a "consent to treat" form.

Therefore, you are consenting to treatment which includes all testing to find out whats wrong/why you're ill, whatever your complaint is, etc. The doctor then decides which tests he or she wants run to get a diagnosis or the best way to treat.

I am not saying I agree or disagree, but I can see the points of view on both sides. But this is the way it is. And people do abuse drugs, or casually use them, and it can impact the plan of care.

We once had a birth in the ER of a baby with a blood alcohol of 50. Meth is rampant, and more and more babies are born addicted. People abuse prescription drugs as well, not just street stuff. Not everyone is the casual toker having a relaxing weekend, and those that arent usually drink and smoke tobacco too.
post #55 of 65
I have to agree with what Sweetbaby3 has posted, regarding consent. I won't reiterate what she's said.

Toxicity screening can be very important. Even look at tylenol, for example. If there's liver damage/failure, acetaminophen can be very toxic. Truth is, not all patients tell the truth. ER tests generally cover all the 'bases', so nothing is missed.

When two lives are at risk, and the reason unknown, I'd expect the doctor to run the gammut on tests, in the Emergency Room. On a Labour and Delivery ward, it's probably more likely that the tests are more specific. ER personelle have the mindset of "What are we dealing with here?; let's not rule anything out".
post #56 of 65

Interpreting data and statistical analysis

I was just wondering if all of you that think you don't need medical degrees know how to read a T-test or understand what makes a study reliable and/or valid. Likely you don't know much about a good study, how participants need to be chosen, what nullifies data etc. You think that if you read a study and the last paragraph says that there was a correlation or it is statistically significant you know all the answers. You need to understand if what you are reading is even a good study. I am not saying that you have to have a medical degree to understand all that, but likely you don't have a background in research analysis and you really don't know what you are reading.
post #57 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by babydoll
I was just wondering if all of you that think you don't need medical degrees know how to read a T-test or understand what makes a study reliable and/or valid. Likely you don't know much about a good study, how participants need to be chosen, what nullifies data etc.
I can't leave this thread alone either.

I took the same statistics class that pre-med takes. I understand what makes a good study, how to read T-test, and everything else that makes good statistical data really is not difficult to figure out. It's really nothing that the average Joe couldn't understand; just get a college-level book on statistics and read it. I also took lab microbiology and lab physiology. It's not stinkin surgery! Reading lab values, interpreting statistic results, etc, are not hard. Surgery is hard, yes. Memorizing all the drug interactions is hard, yes. If I need surgery, or if my child swollows poison I would be happy to refer to the appropriately trained person for help. Reading statistics, no, I don't need to go to a MD just to be told what stats say.

For example, say, if a study was conducted on a population of 90 pregnant and postpartum women in a women's prison that showed that for the Rh de-senensitization shot to be effective it had to be administered within 72 hours of birth, that is not a good study.


Statistics and their interpretation isn't what we were talking about, anyway, it was why are pregnant women's privacy rights are automatically violated because she presents to the ER in preterm labor.

Privacy is a big issue for me.

Cara
post #58 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by myhoneyswife
Statistics and their interpretation isn't what we were talking about, anyway, it was why are pregnant women's privacy rights are automatically violated because she presents to the ER in preterm labor.

Privacy is a big issue for me.

Cara

Just a slight correction as I have no idea where people keep getting the idea but I wasn't in preterm labor! I was showing signs of rapidly progressing pre-eclampsia/HELLP syndrome which i'm at high risk for and my OB sent me for labs because thats the only way to detect HELLP. I haven't had a single contrax in almost 3 weeks now that i'm back on my meds. The problem came about because the ER Dr ignored why I was there and didn't even do the needed labs and just ran a tox screen.
post #59 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satori
Just a slight correction as I have no idea where people keep getting the idea but I wasn't in preterm labor! I was showing signs of rapidly progressing pre-eclampsia/HELLP syndrome which i'm at high risk for and my OB sent me for labs because thats the only way to detect HELLP. I haven't had a single contrax in almost 3 weeks now that i'm back on my meds. The problem came about because the ER Dr ignored why I was there and didn't even do the needed labs and just ran a tox screen.
Sorry. I *knew* that. But for some reason I was thinking differnetly than I knew Anyway, same privacy issue would be true for preterm labor I guess
post #60 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by babydoll
I was just wondering if all of you that think you don't need medical degrees know how to read a T-test or understand what makes a study reliable and/or valid. Likely you don't know much about a good study, how participants need to be chosen, what nullifies data etc. You think that if you read a study and the last paragraph says that there was a correlation or it is statistically significant you know all the answers. You need to understand if what you are reading is even a good study. I am not saying that you have to have a medical degree to understand all that, but likely you don't have a background in research analysis and you really don't know what you are reading.





Likely, you don't have a clue about the educational background of anybody on this thread.

Satori, I didn't pick up the first time that you didn't even get the blood test that you were sent to the hospital for in the first place. That is just appalling. Where is the duty of care there? :
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