I never thought it could happen to me...

[trmpetplaya]

So... I must admit. I was a bit of a snob when I first came here All my friends' recent sons are intact. So when I set out to educate my other friend who's expecting in April, I was totally unprepared for her level of ignorance and... um... deeply rooted aesthetic preference (for lack of a better term ) for the mutilated penis. I would read here all the time about others trying to educate people who would put their own skewed, culturally-based preference over the well-being of their son, but never thought that I would ever meet/try to educate someone like that. After all, the circ rates are so low around here!

Live and learn, I guess... what really still bothers me though is that she brought it up again (after I talked to her alone to spare her cut dh somewhat) with both our dhs present and insisted on treating it like some joke which ended up being rather embarrassing for both our dhs (mine's intact which her dh didn't know before) who weren't counting on discussing their genitals with each other. My dh at least knew that I was going to talk to her about it, but she brought it up in a totally inappropriate way just out of the blue so nobody was expecting it. That was when my dh "drew a blank" about being intact (which I've discussed with him... next time he'll at least manage an "I'm thankful my parents left me intact") and things went downhill from there.

Should I even TRY to bring it up again? I left her some info, but have no idea if she'll even read it. She says it's not about anything medical. It's b/c she wants her ds to *ahem* get it on in high school and thinks everyone is so shallow as to refuse to sleep with her son if he's intact. When I told her the statistics, she didn't care because it's "prettier" to her, so therefore it's prettier to everyone, especially if he's in a minority because I guess then he'll be in demand or something because of his pretty mutilated self...

Okay... I digress. I keep playing it over and over and don't know if I even want to go there again if she behaves like it's some kind of joke.

WWYD?

I'm thinking botched circ pics if she even ever talks to me again, but other than that, I'm feeling really discouraged

love and peace.

[AntoninBeGonin]

How pregnant is she? I couldn't tell from your post. If you can stomach her idiocy, I would think the best thing is to just feed her little bits of information at a time. I think in most cases photos of an circumcision being performed is of better use than botched circumcisions because she is going to know that a truly botched circumcision is an uncommon event. Now, if you could show her pictures of bent penises, hair pulled up on the shaft from the scrotum, and other very common sexual problems and show her how those are caused by circumcision (especially since she's worried about her future son's future sex life) she might be interested.

~Nay

[baybee]

The best way to overcome ignorance is with education. Doctor Opposing Circumcision have an amazing video on their site to educate medical students.
I think every parent should see it. It is the best information I have ever seen about the anatomy and importance of the foreskin. It's called "The Prepuce" and these are the links.


(WMP, streaming) http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...C/prepuce.html

(WMP, download) http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...TSC_256k_D.wmv

[Quirky]

If she's due in April, you don't have a lot of time. I would pull out the big guns - go for the video at www.intact.ca and show her and dh the Penn & Teller episode on circ (which I can send you if you need it). The visuals and audio ought to be enough to change their minds.

If not, point out that the circ rates on the West Coast are only around 35% - so intact is going to be the norm in high school, and her cut son may not be able to find a girlfriend who wants what everyone else is raving about.

[hummingbear]

Originally Posted by baybee

(WMP, streaming) http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...C/prepuce.html

(WMP, download) http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...TSC_256k_D.wmv

These links don't work for me.

[morning glory]

I think the fact that she brought it up with your husband and her husband means she is not secure with her decision and is looking for validation. It also means she thinks ALL guys are circ'd and they are ALL happy about it. I'm sure when she did that she thought that they would jump right in and make fun of you.

In addition to bringing out the big guns as others suggested I would tell her that I don't think that cutting off parts of newborn babies bodies is a joke and I can't believe she would either. I would also really push the human rights thing...people can convince themselves that pain is short term and "they won't remember" but having the right to your own whole body is permanent. Violating that cannot be undone. And ask her what she is going to tell her son about what she did to him and why. If all your other friends kidsa re intact he will be aware from early on that there is a difference. Does she really want to tell her son that she cut part of his penis off because she thought it would look better?

Good Luck.

Casey

[Daisyuk]

DOC Links

These are the updated links:

Information video on the foreskin structure and functions (medical instruction video, about 15 mins long)
Links to the video:
"The Prepuce"

(WMP, Streaming):
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...o/prepuce.html

(WMP, Download-use "save link as"):
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...TSC_256k_D.wmv

[eightyferrettoes]

It is SO hard, mama. Circ rates are high in my little circle of friends. And yeah, the ignorance/cultural pressure issues are so seemingly insurmountable. It truly shocks me that some of these people are friggen reproducing, sometimes.

At this point, I'm pleased enough if I can even wedge the concept into their brains that SOMEBODY in the world thinks circ is bad. Give them something to ponder. No sucesses yet, though.

[DocsNemesis]

I dont know what to say....the rates are so low here and my intact son seems to have issues with making fun of those who are circ'd (not that I let him!!), I would think that those who are cut will be getting made fun of. Let her know that pain relief for infants does NOT work well, that all he can have is tylenol, and that an adult can be put under and get good drugs if he wanted to do it later. Also point out that SHE wont be sleeping with her son, so it shouldnt matter to her what he looks like. You can also show how many men have sexual issues from being circ'd-my hubby is one of them. The huge resoration movement shows that. Girls in his age group are going to be used to the uncut penis, unlike her, and will probably be as grossed out by his damaged penis as those used to be with the natural penis. Times have changed!! Never mind the risks...Jacob Sweet lives in Bothell and he is vegetable due to circing. My nephew barely has a penis left due to an infection. I mean, would she be willing to loose her son to this??

[Pariah]

Originally Posted by Quirky

show her and dh the Penn & Teller episode on circ (which I can send you if you need it).

Ooh, I would love to see this. Could you send it to me? I'd love to pass it on to people who didn't understand why we didn't circ, too.

[baybee]

Thanks for putting up the new links to the DOC video "The Prepuce". I'll change that in my folder. If anyone has trouble linking please advise the website owners because they want everyone to be able to see it and sometimes there's a different computer configuration that they can add.
Baybee

[ColoradoMama]

Oh, I just hate that, "You can't leave your son intact because his future girlfriend will think it's gross" argument. It is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard (right up there with "You can't raise your kids vegetarian - they won't be able to go to McDonald's."). Ask her if she'll spring for a boob job when her fifteen year old daughter asks for one because the boy of her dreams won't go out with her unless her boobs are bigger!

[trmpetplaya]

Thank you for your ideas and support Unfortunately (fortunately for THEM but not for their ds...) her dh doesn't seem to have ANY problems related to circ. They don't have to use lube and he only has a regular scar with nothing weird. I did say that just because HE was lucky doesn't mean his son will be and that babies have died from this cosmetic surgery.

I'll be trying Penn and Teller on them. I also said that they would have to explain someday to their sons why they're different from our future sons (we want a lot of children and so do they...) and she said, "how do you know you'll have any sons?" : Um... usually, if people have a lot of children they have at least one of each and boys kinda run in both our families. My relatives were thrilled we had a girl because there are almost none of us around.

She did know that my dh wasn't circ'd before she brought it up. I told her that he has never had any problems and has never NEEDED to have it done at a later age. No hygiene problems, etc. Still... she could have talked to my dh without subjecting her dh to it so bluntly... poor guy

I need to find some stats on bfing and circ b/c she does want to nurse for at least a year.

love and peace.

[baybee]

There was a study published a few months ago and posted here about circ making breastfeeding more difficult. I'll find it and paste it in here for you.
Baybee