"Don't retract."

[pdx.mothernurture]

So, we all know that the foreskin of babies and young children is not supposed to be messed with, except by the child himself. I thought we could use this thread to brainstorm ways to most effectively communicate this to care providers.

On older pediatrician (not our regular one) partially retracted Quinn while he was sick with a cold-like virus. long before he was even a year old. Of course, you think it will never happen to you or your son, but it can happen lightening-fast even when you think you're being dilligent. In our case, I gasped and said, "Don't retract!!!" and he replied, "Oh, I'm not...I'm just looking."

WTF?

Look with your eyes buddy, not your hands. Grrrr.

Saying, "Don't retract." isn't enough. Don't touch, don't manipulate, don't stretch, and don't pull it back-even a little bit-are better, more descriptive terms.

WDYT?

Can you think of others?

At what point during a visit with a pediatrician or a trip to the ER do you say something? Before they touch your child? Before your child is undressed, at all? Before his diaper comes off?

Also, when parents are faced with this kind of situation, they are often already stressed and feeling a bit overwhelmed if their kiddo is sick...perhaps even more sleep deprived than normal.

I'm almost tempted to just say, "He's not circumcised, and I do not consent to you manipulating his foreskin at all. Not even a little, tiny bit. Leave it alone. If you retract him, even partially, after I've made it clear I do not consent to you doing so---I will press charges."

But, I have a feeling that would come across too aggressive/harsh.

Jen

[alegna]

I think I would just insist that the diaper stay on unless there is a particular concern.

-Angela

[KBinSATX]

Yes, agree with Angela. Perhaps I am missing something here as this will be my first child? What would they see on the penis that would give them any indication on how they should treat his cold.
I don't think I've ever been asked to take of my pants when I was sick...

[pdx.mothernurture]

Originally Posted by KBinSATX

Yes, agree with Angela. Perhaps I am missing something here as this will be my first child? What would they see on the penis that would give them any indication on how they should treat his cold.
I don't think I've ever been asked to take of my pants when I was sick...

Well, he had a fever...so I suppose they may have thought there was a chance there could be an infection going on, somewhere.

Forced/premature retraction even happens frequently at well baby checks.

Jen

[alegna]

Originally Posted by sunflower_mommy

Well, he had a fever...so I suppose they may have thought there was a chance there could be an infection going on, somewhere.

Forced/premature retraction even happens frequently at well baby checks.

Jen

Exactly, I wouldn't let the diaper come off at well checks either without a reason. but we don't do well checks at all so I don't have a lot of faith in them to begin with. As for the possibility of an infection, what would the dr. see that mama wouldn't?

-Angela

[pdx.mothernurture]

Originally Posted by alegna

Exactly, I wouldn't let the diaper come off at well checks either without a reason. but we don't do well checks at all so I don't have a lot of faith in them to begin with. As for the possibility of an infection, what would the dr. see that mama wouldn't?

-Angela

A lot of ignorant doctors are phimosis-obsessed, and don't know/understand that the foreskin of a infant/young child isn't supposed to be retractible. So, they often see a non-retractible foreskin as a problem in need of correction.

Another concern (for ignorant doctors) is to check for meatal stenosis in intact boys...even though meatal stenosis is almost always *caused by* circumcision. (Circed boys have a 9-10% risk of meatal stenosis.)

There's also a lot of misguided hype out there about intact boys being at a greatly increased risk of UTI.

Jen

[KBinSATX]

Originally Posted by alegna

Exactly, I wouldn't let the diaper come off at well checks either without a reason. but we don't do well checks at all so I don't have a lot of faith in them to begin with. As for the possibility of an infection, what would the dr. see that mama wouldn't?

-Angela

That was going to be my next question. Why would I go to well baby checks in the first place? From your answer I am assuming there is no state requirement, etc. that makes you take your child in periodically, etc.

[gabysmom617]

A couple times, I had to take my child to the doctor.

One time, because he had blood in his stool. (No more milk for me. He's allergic to the milk protein in my breastmilk.)

The second time was because he had croup.

Both times his diaper had to come off, the first time because they had to check his anus for tears, the second time to get a rectal temperature.

Each time, when the doctor told me to take his diaper off, I looked into the doctors eyes with a cold hard stare, with the looked of a sleep deprived crazed woman, and asked a very blunt and short "Why? : "

The doctors looked slightly taken aback on my sudden change of demeanor on both occassions, and immediately started babbling like a brook. They said, "oh, we need to do this that the other so forth and so on." And each time the let ME do the manipulating. They let ME take his diaper off, let ME show them his anus, or hold my baby's legs while they took his temperature. There was no way they could do anything because "I" was the one that was doing everything.

Maybe I did not look very nice. Maybe it was the fact that on both occassions the doctors looked very young and fresh. But there was no way they were touching my baby after I "looked" at them the way I did and made them explain to me what exactly they were going to do.

[MistyMM]

our ped (who is very natural but not a naturopath LOL)looks, but doesn't touch, but we do have him wear a shirt we got on cafe press that says "If You Try To Retract My Foreskin My Mommy Will Sue You" and he wears it to every doctor visit and if he ever had to go to the ER, he'd wear it there too (lets hope that never happens) Of course I still watch like a hawk though
hereis the link to the cafe press store
Misty

[acrathbun]

:

[Red Sonja]

I had my 18 month old DS in the ER for a high fever and repeatedly vomiting bile and they wanted to cath him to check for a UTI. I discussed it ahead of time both with the doc and the corpsman who was doing the cath and made it abundantly clear that he was NOT to be retracted. I was also right there during the procedure to make sure she didn't do it. Fortunately she was experienced at cathing intact boys, which both surprised and relieved me.

[LadyMarmalade]

I'm really ignorant when it comes to this - I never tried to retracy my kids and since the majority of kids are intact here, doctors never raise an eyebrow (they've never tried to retract the boys either). So I've got a question - wouldn't it be difficult to forcibly retract a child? When my kids do it, the foreskin glides easily and quickly - but if it was still adhered to the head, wouldn't you have to put some effort into making it retract? Wouldn't the foreskin seem a little 'reluctant'? Or are my assumptions totally wrong? Is it easy to retract a foreskin which is still fused? I'm just wondering why on earth would someone - if they're trying to retract a foreskin which is giving signs of not being able to - keep going?

[alegna]

Originally Posted by jenneyrebecca

I notice a lot of parents mention things like why even take your kids to their well-baby checkups, and I'm a little stressed about it. Well-baby checkups are very important, and for the very reason someone mentioned above. A doctor WILL see infections or problems that moms often don't see. You and I may be very careful, educated mamas, but not everyone is. In fact most parents don't have the first CLUE about medicine, health, or their babies. That's why well-baby checkups are so vital, they provide the opportunities for parents who don't read baby books and don't have time or energy or money to keep up with health information to get straightforward advice and healthcare from a professional. I consider myself to be pretty darn educated and even I have gotten really great help at different stages (mainly solid foods, ugh) from the doc. It's dangerous to assume that we know everything and then deprive our kids of routine medical care. Just my 2 cents.

Also, the diaper comes off for the temperature, for those who were wondering. I presume it's also important for docs to look for signs of sexual abuse, and simply to do a thorough check-up. The diaper covers a lot of baby.

Also, ditto on the circ stuff.

Bah. By and large well checks are a money maker. If you like them, fine, go, but don't insinuate that people that don't are "depriving" their children anything.

-Angela

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by caloli

I'm really ignorant when it comes to this - I never tried to retracy my kids and since the majority of kids are intact here, doctors never raise an eyebrow (they've never tried to retract the boys either). So I've got a question - wouldn't it be difficult to forcibly retract a child? When my kids do it, the foreskin glides easily and quickly - but if it was still adhered to the head, wouldn't you have to put some effort into making it retract? Wouldn't the foreskin seem a little 'reluctant'? Or are my assumptions totally wrong? Is it easy to retract a foreskin which is still fused? I'm just wondering why on earth would someone - if they're trying to retract a foreskin which is giving signs of not being able to - keep going?

I have heard some moms here say that the dr was forcing it back because it was supposed to be stretched like that to so that they wouldnt get phimosis.
They are under the impression that this "has" to be dont to stretch it out. Some have even told the moms that bleeding is normal and to keep it up and it will get better :
Yes it would be hard to force it but from what I have read here more than a few dr's have done so causing bleeding and tearing of the foreskin.

[Leiahs]

My 6 month old hasn't been back to the Ped since his 2 month "well baby" visit, where I caught the stupid Ped pulling down DS's foreskin. I actually had to grab her hand before she heeded any of my frantic calls to "STOP!" : She looked at me like I had grown two heads or something, and I told her, "Don't retract him!!!!" and she said, "I wasn't going to hurt him..."

I'd like to know just how she planned on figuring that out. Who decides what hurts him, and how does she know? The only way she would know she hurt him was if he cried, and at that point she would have already done DAMAGE. There is no way I'm letting a doc touch DS's penis again unless they're on the EXACT same page as I am. For now I'm just avoiding doctors altogether until I find a one I'm comfortable with for my son, or unless there's something wrong I can't handle. But it's definitely a good idea to either make it abundantly clear that there is to be absolutely no manipulation of the penis whatsoever (and if they don't know why, then they need education), or simply just do it all yourself while they use their eyeballs.

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by caloli

So I've got a question - wouldn't it be difficult to forcibly retract a child? When my kids do it, the foreskin glides easily and quickly - but if it was still adhered to the head, wouldn't you have to put some effort into making it retract? Wouldn't the foreskin seem a little 'reluctant'? Or are my assumptions totally wrong? Is it easy to retract a foreskin which is still fused? I'm just wondering why on earth would someone - if they're trying to retract a foreskin which is giving signs of not being able to - keep going?

There is some initial resistance but once it is overcome, the foreskin comes the rest of the way down quite quickly and easily. That's why Moms report it happens so quickly that they didn't realize what was happening. The doctor takes the penis in hand and with a combination of gently squeezing and pulling, the resistance is overcome. At that point, it hasn't looked like the doctor was doing anything other than examining but the next thing you know, the resistance is over come and the glans literally pops out and full (or nearly) retraction has been done.




Frank

[l_olive]

I haven't seen an answer to the OPs question.

I'm also looking for the right phrase to use with health care professionals that is to-the-point and authoritative enough to be taken seriously, but not so pushy that everything I have to say will be discredited as coming from a hysterical mother.

I have an 18 month old nephew who was forcibly retracted at an ER visit, and I've been trying to figure out how exactly to make dang sure that never happens to my son.

I want something I can say as soon as I meet the doc or nurse -- I don't want to wait to see if they try to examine his genitals.

Anybody???

--Olive

[pdx.mothernurture]

Originally Posted by caloli

I'm really ignorant when it comes to this - I never tried to retracy my kids and since the majority of kids are intact here, doctors never raise an eyebrow (they've never tried to retract the boys either). So I've got a question - wouldn't it be difficult to forcibly retract a child? When my kids do it, the foreskin glides easily and quickly - but if it was still adhered to the head, wouldn't you have to put some effort into making it retract? Wouldn't the foreskin seem a little 'reluctant'? Or are my assumptions totally wrong? Is it easy to retract a foreskin which is still fused? I'm just wondering why on earth would someone - if they're trying to retract a foreskin which is giving signs of not being able to - keep going?

The skin is very delicate, and it doesn't necessarily take much force from an adult hand to cause tearing at the opening (ridged band/preputial sphincter). You have to also consider that virtually every time a circumcision is performed, the foreskin and glans have to be torn apart, and while it's usually quick it's also one of the most painful parts of the entire procedure.

Jen

[MommytoB]

It can even quickly happen with family members too I remember being in the same room when my mom was changing my son diaper she retracted him and I go don't do that she goes How's it's supposed to get clean then ? Then I gave her information and she goes I never did that so why you giving me this information etc.

It was obvious that she did .

My pedi takes my son's diaper off at well checks to check his 'balls' no idea why cuz he already had known that testes are already descended in there he hasn't retracted my son yet. But will ignore the talk of foreskin by changing subject as if it's forbidden to even have that kind of 'talk'.

[MistyMM]

Originally Posted by jenneyrebecca

I notice a lot of parents mention things like why even take your kids to their well-baby checkups, and I'm a little stressed about it. Well-baby checkups are very important, and for the very reason someone mentioned above. A doctor WILL see infections or problems that moms often don't see. You and I may be very careful, educated mamas, but not everyone is. In fact most parents don't have the first CLUE about medicine, health, or their babies. That's why well-baby checkups are so vital, they provide the opportunities for parents who don't read baby books and don't have time or energy or money to keep up with health information to get straightforward advice and healthcare from a professional. I consider myself to be pretty darn educated and even I have gotten really great help at different stages (mainly solid foods, ugh) from the doc. It's dangerous to assume that we know everything and then deprive our kids of routine medical care. Just my 2 cents.

Also, the diaper comes off for the temperature, for those who were wondering. I presume it's also important for docs to look for signs of sexual abuse, and simply to do a thorough check-up. The diaper covers a lot of baby.

First of all, well baby checks are NOT important at all. They are the american money maker. We take our children to well baby checks, but at the well baby check, all we're doing is talking to dr c. and not even about health issues!! He'll do a QUICK check of baby, while I hold him, and I do mean quick, but it's only to get baby comfortable with the doctor, in the case of something terrible happening where baby will be very sick and need the doctor. My oldest son has a problem (we're not sure yet what it is) where he spontaneously starts vomiting, he'll vomit everything that is in his mouth, including spit. he'll vomit all day long. One time he did it so badly, all day long, that he became severely dehydrated. My mama bells went off, and I know there was nothing we could do to help him at home, called the ped, who met us at the ER at 11pm. They admitted my son for severe dehydration (they said they've never seen dehydration this bad after only 9 hours of upset stomach), and after 6 hours of IV fluids, he was back to his normal self. Doctors _do_ have their place (I never could have given him iv fluids LOL) But I think saying well checks are important is just spreading more of the medical feilds lies about. My mama gut tells me if something is seriously wrong with my children to the point of needing medical help, and that's thus far, only happened once in five years.

Also, if my doctor was ROUTINELY checking my babies privates for SEXUAL ABUSE then I would be switching doctors and getting a lawyer. I have never given him any reason to think that my children are abused, there is no reason for them to check for such a thing without reason. What is this the land of guilty until proven innocent? jeez.

Did you know that well baby checks were INVENTED in order to get parents into the peds office for the vaccines? That is their ENTIRE POINT.

Misty