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Homeschool group values? - Page 2

post #21 of 57
I thought about this some more, and the feeling keeps coming to me that the incident was flat out abuse. I don't feel that it even warrants polite discussion with those responsible - I think it calls for anger and assertiveness in making it clear that it was not okay and not okay with anyone else's children either. I have to wonder if all the other parents realize what can go on there. I've never heard of such a thing! : Still steamed... - Lillian
post #22 of 57
I read your post to my DH. He was shocked. (As am I.) I cannot believe they had your daughter do that. That is not how we believe children should be treated. I consider it abuse and would not go back. I would, however, make it known (loudly) why you are leaving. I agree that others may not know what is happening.

For our family, I would probably just try to find a family or two that you can get together with if possible. They don't have to match your style exactly, but they might give you all some fun social interaction while you all feel safe and comfortable. I can't imagine you are the only one in your group who would be upset by this.
post #23 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachinmaof3
Someone disciplining my child like that would be more than enough for me to leave the group.

I agree with the poster who said that you should start your own group, because this one sounds very toxic(and sad) to me.

Take Care,
Erika:

Hannah-Rest in Peace Sweet Girl
post #24 of 57
Frankly, I don't even think this was much different from spanking. It's causing physical pain and discomfort to control behavior. It's also an abuse of power. What's different about it??

I don't have a problem with anyone intervening with my child in an *appropriate* way if I'm not immediately available - for example, saying, "In this house we don't [fill in the blank]." There have been times when I've jumped in and said "No hitting!" to a child in an emergency, when the mom was too far away to respond in time. But I would not allow someone to deal disrespectfully with my child (any more than I would allow him to be disrespectful). And I CERTAINLY would not tolerate someone using his own body against him as a form of so-called "discipline".

Really, I wouldn't feel any more comfortable staying in a group that was so at odds with my philosophy than I would about being in a group that was at odds with my religious beliefs.
post #25 of 57
I haven't figured out if Brigianna actually spoke with anyone in the group leadership about what happened to see if this is unacceptable, even within their group (and an isolated incident) or if the group itself thinks that the "punishment" was just fine.

If the group actively supports the treatment then I'd write them off immediately. But since DD expresses interest in going again, and IF the group leadership has been contacted and THE GROUP LEADERSHIP express remorse and outrage that it happened, THEN I can see giving the group another try. I just wonder if other parents in the group would also be outraged at such behavior of their children. If so, perhaps that would be a good start in beginning a new group, one with gentler values.
post #26 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverSky
But since DD expresses interest in going again, and the group leadership has been contacted and expresses remorse and outrage that it happened, THEN I can see giving the group another try.
You meant "if" the group leadership has been contacted and had expressed remorse, rather than "since," didn't you? - Lillian
post #27 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillian J


You meant "if" the group leadership has been contacted and had expressed remorse, rather than "since," didn't you? - Lillian
Oh yes, thank you for catching that. I'll go back and edit.
post #28 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna
It's sort of part homeschool group, part "mother's day off" group. I probably will stay with them if we decide to stay in it, but I'm still concerned about the coercive atmosphere influencing them somehow.
Homeschooling or not, it's important to make sure you and your babysitter are on the same page before you leave your child(ren) alone with her!
post #29 of 57
Thread Starter 
-deleted-
post #30 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna
As politically incorrect as it is, I *don't* want to expose my kids to all values and beliefs. I *don't* want to teach them that hurting children is a perfectly valid alternative lifestyle choice, because in my opinion *it isn't.*
Whoa. I don't think ANYONE here suggested that hurting children is a perfectly valid alternative lifestyle choice! Most expressed outrage over the way your child was treated.

Yes, several us of commented about kids learning that others live differently. If you don't want to expose your kids to that, that's your choice, but noting that others live differently and condoning it, are two different things. I know, personally, my point was that my kids have seen that others live differently, and we discuss it, but that fact does not mean I think it's okay to hurt kids.
post #31 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan
Whoa. I don't think ANYONE here suggested that hurting children is a perfectly valid alternative lifestyle choice! Most expressed outrage over the way your child was treated.

Yes, several us of commented about kids learning that others live differently. If you don't want to expose your kids to that, that's your choice, but noting that others live differently and condoning it, are two different things. I know, personally, my point was that my kids have seen that others live differently, and we discuss it, but that fact does not mean I think it's okay to hurt kids.
Okay, I understand that noting that people live differently isn't the same as condoning, I just think that 6 and almost-3 is a little young to grasp that distinction.

I didn't mean that anyone here called it a valid alternative choice; I was talking about the "school mentality" which *does* tend to present everything as equally valid and *does* in my opinion confuse children still learning their own values. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
post #32 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna
I forgot to mention, she was being punished for "talking back." Honestly this bothers me almost as much as the punishment itself--I attribute a lot of problems in society to people being taught not to "talk back."

While I do not agree with the punishment, I also believe that children should be taught to be respectful and not smart off to people. Of course, I do not know what the other parent considered "talking back", either.

I once had a child tell me they did not "have to listen to me" and to "F-off". I am sure your child did not say anything close to that.
post #33 of 57
I just came across this thread, and I'm so relieved to hear that your children won't be exposed to that anymore.

I have heard of 'stress standing' before, but only in press coverage about Guantanamo, Abu Ghiraib and the like. Seriously. Didn't know any schools anywhere in North America did that.

It sounds like, although your kids didn't come to you and say they didn't want to go back as soon as this happened, they were waiting for cues from you as to what it was 'ok' to express about the group, if you see what I mean.

The Y a couple of times a week sounds fine for now, especially when they're so young. More important that they enjoy the activity than anything - I know my child enjoys a variety of activities including ones with schooled kids, and we've got to know lots of other great families this way, including ones with kids in school. But none that are abusive, which would be a complete deal-breaker for me.
post #34 of 57
Agreed- I know some parents who feel ok doing some things disciplinary wise with their kids, that I DON"T want to see. It's very uncomfortable- so I don't spend time with them. It sounds like thses people are the exact opposite of what you want, so ditch them!
What I meant before when I said you'll all be exposed to various types of people was this- in a group like i have, we all have major differences in how we parent. But not one of us feels the need to judge another, or to insinuate that b/c we've chosen a certain way, that others need to comply with us. If I felt anyone of these folks represented harm to my kids, I'd avoid them.That's comfort in a way,b/c if you truly do have anxiety issues, you don't want to make 'differences" the reason your kids might pick up on your anxieties ,and have a lack of sociability.
You said your dh has concerns,and that's good, you have his input to keep balanced. I'm not saying that this one issue should be overlooked, b/c it shouldn't. But do try to find other groups or families for you guys to socialize with. it is very important. I know a few moms who have social anxieties, and some do well, in spite of their own fears, give their kids the opportunities to spend time with others, whereas a couple of them transfer their anxieties onto their own kids, and these kids(I know them personally) are as paralyzed by fear as their mothers. Unable to have normal child relationships. they have no friends, b/c thay're too anxious!
I'm not in any way putting you down, I know how hard it is to find a good fit with families sometimes, but keep looking, the Y may have other families attending with whom you'll all feel comfortable-
post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna
.
What do y'all think? Is a "group" experience more important than consistant values?

-Brigianna
I'm sorry- after my long winded answer, I'll answer your 1 question... No, a group experience is not more important than consistent values.... that's how people justify schools....
post #36 of 57
Quote:
Is a "group" experience more important than consistant values?
Nope. And I would not drop them off at a group where people would force them to do that.
post #37 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerBelle
While I do not agree with the punishment, I also believe that children should be taught to be respectful and not smart off to people. Of course, I do not know what the other parent considered "talking back", either.

I once had a child tell me they did not "have to listen to me" and to "F-off". I am sure your child did not say anything close to that.
I absolutely agree that children (and adults) should be polite and respectful to other people, but that doesn't mean unquestioning obedience. I strongly encourage my kids to "talk back" to me and challenge my authority as much as they want. And often they're right! But we use logical arguments, not "F off."

I love my little anti-authoritarians, especially when I'm the power they're speaking truth to!
post #38 of 57
Thread Starter 
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post #39 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsmamato2
Agreed- I know some parents who feel ok doing some things disciplinary wise with their kids, that I DON"T want to see. It's very uncomfortable- so I don't spend time with them. It sounds like thses people are the exact opposite of what you want, so ditch them!
What I meant before when I said you'll all be exposed to various types of people was this- in a group like i have, we all have major differences in how we parent. But not one of us feels the need to judge another, or to insinuate that b/c we've chosen a certain way, that others need to comply with us. If I felt anyone of these folks represented harm to my kids, I'd avoid them.That's comfort in a way,b/c if you truly do have anxiety issues, you don't want to make 'differences" the reason your kids might pick up on your anxieties ,and have a lack of sociability.
You said your dh has concerns,and that's good, you have his input to keep balanced. I'm not saying that this one issue should be overlooked, b/c it shouldn't. But do try to find other groups or families for you guys to socialize with. it is very important. I know a few moms who have social anxieties, and some do well, in spite of their own fears, give their kids the opportunities to spend time with others, whereas a couple of them transfer their anxieties onto their own kids, and these kids(I know them personally) are as paralyzed by fear as their mothers. Unable to have normal child relationships. they have no friends, b/c thay're too anxious!
I'm not in any way putting you down, I know how hard it is to find a good fit with families sometimes, but keep looking, the Y may have other families attending with whom you'll all feel comfortable-
Thanks for your concern; I appreciate it. I know that socialization is important, although I think its importance is greatly exaggerated, especially for very young kids (since when do they need the social graces at 2?---not directed at you but at the mainstreamers).

I don't have social anxiety, I just don't like to go out! Dealing with people seems more hassle than it's worth. My husband's concern was that I was projecting my own experience on to the issue of stress standing, which I wasn't. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

But I will make sure the kidlets get out once in a while. I wonder if school kids might be *more* likely to develop social anxiety than hs kids from being over-socialized at too early an age?
post #40 of 57
If I am there(usally am) I expect to be told when my kids act inappropriately,and then I will handle it.If I weren't there I think having a child sit down somewhere to cool/calm down,and then *talk to them* would be ok.No way would I think stress standing(never heard of it) was ok.Not from me,and definitely not from another adult. Either I would have stopped the punishiment right away,or later I would have told my dc that it was not something I think the adult had the right to do.

I would leave the group,and let them know why.Then create/find another that I feel more comfortable with.Hugs for your kids,and best wishes whatever you decide. You will find places that are acceptable.Don't give up your values


Would your dh feel it was ok if his boss make him do stress standing in the corner for a while infront of his peers? I doubt it.Not only is it uncomfortable- it humiliates! I am sure he will agree.
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