POLL: Are you pro public school? - Page 5

[eightyferrettoes]

Yes. ITA with mamajama's post. As ever.

[sunnmama]

I am pro public schools. I would like to see a lot of things about public schools change, but I think they are extremely important to our society.

We are homeschooling dd, and dh is a public school teacher. I feel extremely privileged to live in an area that has relatively safe, relatively functional public schools, and be able to say "No thanks, we are making a different choice." But hsing is best for my dd and our family, so that is the choice we are making.

[medeanj]

Originally Posted by Leatherette

It just sounds like people think a gang of five year old thugs with knives is waiting to jump on their kid if they come to public school. It is melodramatic, totally inaccurate, and a little creepy (everyone else's kid is a problem child). L.

Well maybe not necessarily with knives. But I was gang beaten by five year olds. Imagine yourself with a hearing impairment and a slight speech delay being backed into a corner of a chainlink fence on the playground by a group of five year old girls, your hair grabbed, clothes torn and slapped and kicked. You go to the principal's office tell your story in tears, the guilty kids are brought in, told to apologize, but they do so while they glare at you with a look of venom. Next day you are teased in the class as a 'tattletale' and then the rest of the kids (especially the boys) join in the tirade...and the teacher does nothing...absolutely nothing.

And those were on good days...

Am I being melodramatic?

[RubyWild]

Originally Posted by Leatherette

That said, I don't know where a Kindergarten classroom would have 41 students. That doesn't sound legal. My son's class has 24, with assistants for students with special needs, extra teachers coming in to make groups smaller for reading, and lots of volunteering parents.

If my son were having lots of problems fitting into the environment, I would certainly have no qualms about making a different choice for him. I wouldn't leave him in an environment that was harming him to uphold my principles or something. I also wouldn't tell all parents to hate all public schools because I or my child had a bad experience in one of them.

L.

Not only are there 42 children in each of the 3 kindergarten classes at that school, there isn't even an assistant in the classroom because they can't keep one working there more than 3 weeks. Plus, about 1/4 of the student have moderate to severe behavioral problems. My friend is only one of two households in the classroom that has a SAH parent, so only two parents ever volunteer in the classroom.

As far as telling all parents to hate public schools, I would not go that far. However, I would say that they are generally not up to the standards of European schools.

[boongirl]

Originally Posted by cmd

I am in complete agreement with you there, Leatherette. My son is in a public school in Seattle, too, and so far has been a very positive experience.

Glad you both are having positive experiences with Seattle Schools. Having taught in Seattle elementary schools before dd was born, I would not put her in any of them. My experience with all the bs that they heave on teachers without backing it up with resources has made me not only want to keep my child out of the schools but I am also considering switching careers. My experience in Seattle Public Schools killed my desire to teach. It was that horrible.

[Althea485]

There was a poll awhile back in the news, I forget the exact numbers but it was striking that a very high percentage of parents believed that the schools overall were in terrible trouble, most public schools rated "very poor" or something like that, but *far* higher percentages said "But my kids' school is one of the good ones." IOW there is some disconnect going on, some element of denial, it is *other* people's schools that are terrible but things are all right where my kid is. That's also interesting in view of the contrast betw/, for instance, those saying they use Seattle public schools and they're fine, and those who have taught in them saying my god I'd never put my kid there.

It may be on the other hand that a little parental denial is a useful thing.
Althea.

[Leatherette]

Well maybe not necessarily with knives. But I was gang beaten by five year olds. Imagine yourself with a hearing impairment and a slight speech delay being backed into a corner of a chainlink fence on the playground by a group of five year old girls, your hair grabbed, clothes torn and slapped and kicked. You go to the principal's office tell your story in tears, the guilty kids are brought in, told to apologize, but they do so while they glare at you with a look of venom. Next day you are teased in the class as a 'tattletale' and then the rest of the kids (especially the boys) join in the tirade...and the teacher does nothing...absolutely nothing.

And those were on good days...

Am I being melodramatic?

Medeanj,

I am really sorry that happened to you. I do not think you are being melodramatic. I was speaking more to people who assume that all kids in public school are future criminals, with no reason to do so other than bias and misinformation. I do think you experienced something horrible, but not common (to the degree you experienced it).

Bad things do happen, everywhere. So do good things. I went to a private school where one of the teachers had sex with some of the students and nothing was done about it. Some kids are beaten up daily at home.

I taught at a Seattle Public School as well, and will be going back next year. I did not find it to be any more difficult than other districts I have taught in. They are all hurting for funds. To me, the hardest part of working in the public schools I have been in has been lack of funding - and that comes from the community. I have taught in one rural district and two urban ones, and I think those two types of communities lose out versus suburban ones.

And as a public school teacher, if any child reported to me that they were being hurt by someone on the playground, I would be out there or make sure another adult could be out there to get to the bottom of it. And I think 95% of the teachers I have known would, too. The other 5%, I guess they just went into teaching for the prestige and exorbitant paychecks.

L.

[jannan]

i support public schools in theory. i've seen bad ones and good ones.

[sanguine_speed]

Whether or not one thinks some schools are good/bad, the issue we are discussing is "public schools" in the general sense, no?

I entirely support public schools. I would not want my child in a private school where reality is hidden from her in that she will only meet children of a certain socioeconomic status.

Additionally, imagine what would happen if every parent who had a child in private education pulled that child out and began using the public system. Imagine! There would be some serious change to the flawed system and more resources allocated as well. The powerful wealthy, with no alternative school to turn away from the public system with, would act for change with the resources to do so.

[lauren]

I think it is worth mentioning, though I don't really know if it matters for this particular thread or not (!) that some private schools are very down to earth, hand-to-mouth kind of operations that are full of diverse people as opposed to the rich, elite. I know of one particular school like that around here, and I assume there are many. Yes, a family does have to come up with at least $4000 or more, but some families are doing without a second car, working 3 jobs, no vacations, etc. to do it.

[orca]

I am a supporter of public education and think that we owe it to future generations to make it work. Not everyone can afford to stay home or send their kids to private schools. Did you know in some public school boards in Canada you have the choice to put your child in an accredited Montessori classroom? I guess that is what I would like to see more of: choice within the public school system.

I tell so many of my friends who are considering private school for any number of reasons to really consider what it is that they think they will get *more* of in a private institution. I've taught in both public and private schools and my experiences have been far more rewarding in the public system. Personally, if I had the cash that so many of these schools require for tuition in the big cities these days I'd take my children on a fabulous holiday & show them the world. Learning about Egypt this year? Well, let's go see what all the fuss is about... what a great field trip that would be!

[Leatherette]

Yes, a family does have to come up with at least $4000 or more, but some families are doing without a second car, working 3 jobs, no vacations, etc. to do it.

I hear that, but there are many families that wouldn't have food if they had to come up with 4000 dollars (0r more - the cheapest private school I have seen is 6500), and wouldn't be able to volunteer to make the homey little private school work, because they already needed to work three jobs anyway, with no car and not even a hope of a vacation or a day off.

L.

[griffin2004]

Originally Posted by sanguine_speed

I would not want my child in a private school where reality is hidden from her in that she will only meet children of a certain socioeconomic status.

That's a VERY broad brush you're painting with there, my friend. Care to re-examine your assumptions?

I think public schools are an absolute necessity to our country and I support them both financially (property taxes) and philosophically. Thomas Jefferson said that without general education of its citizens, a republic cannot maintain its strength and that citizens would not be able to judge for themselves what will preserve their freedoms.

That being said, I will be sending my daughter to private school. It will just about kill us financially, but education is one of my top priorities for her and I don't think she will be well educated in our local public schools. I work with youth and know what goes on in the junior highs and high schools around here. No thanks!

[kimnicole428]

I voted yes.
My parents are both public school teachers...so i am a little biased.

I wouldnt send a my future child to some public schools.

I think public school helps teach kids important life lessons

I believe it is up to me to make sure my child gets the most out of his/her education as possible.

[EFmom]

Yes, I am. I went to a dreadful private catholic school and an excellent public high school. My high school prepared me extremely well for college. My kids are going to a very fine public elementary school now. Dh is a public high school teacher in a different district.

My kids' public school isn't perfect, but I seriously doubt that I would find any school 100% idyllic, and homeschooling is not something I would want for my kids or myself. I'm very happy with what they are learning and for the school environment. I like the diversity of the student body, as well.

[boongirl]

Originally Posted by Leatherette

I taught at a Seattle Public School as well, and will be going back next year. I did not find it to be any more difficult than other districts I have taught in. They are all hurting for funds. To me, the hardest part of working in the public schools I have been in has been lack of funding - and that comes from the community.

The funding actually comes from the state, unless you are talking about a bond or levy for building or technology. Other than pta fundraising, the local community has very little involvement in school funding. I think it is state law in Washington State that these funds cannot pay for regular classroom expenses. (don't quote me on that one) As with many urban school districts in this country, Seattle has followed the many special interests in the city to the point of having lost track of what is truly important for children: the right to have a quality education. There are a few schools that, with the help of a strong and wealthy pta, have been able to pay for extra programs for their students, thus making their school desirable. Otherwise, Seattle is sadly inferior to other school districts I know about and have taught in.

District, and state, really do matter in the debate about whether public schools are good or not. Washington state ranks very low in terms of public school expenditures. That is very sad for our children. Seattle may offer school choice right now, but I don't think many parents realize how much they are losing in terms of quality of education by having choice. The busing of students to any school within their zone is costly. If you had the opportunity to teach in other districts near Seattle, like I have, you would be appalled at how bad things are for Seattle teachers. I switched to teaching in Seattle to shorten my commute, but I regret it. I will give you some examples of what teachers and students get in other districts around Puget Sound (but not Seattle):

• assistant teachers in every classroom for at least part of the day
• before and after school reading help from a teacher for those who are struggling but not special ed.
• 20 minutes of lunch time for students and 20 minutes of recess time, manned by assistant teachers
• supply rooms full of enough materials that teachers do not ever have to buy their classroom any of the basics like paper, pens, erasers, staplers, etc.
• music for all grades, including instruments
• covered gymnasiums so kids can have recess even on rainy days
• small group counseling for kids who need it
• a stipend from the district to buy extra materials
• any new child automatically gets all the curriculum material he/she needs. The classroom teacher never has to struggle to find enough books
• I could go on and on....I did not have even one of these things in my Seattle school but I had them all in other school districts.

I realize that urban school districts struggle with different learning needs than suburban and rural, but I find fault with a district, like Seattle, that has followed the whim of a few board members and few loud parents to have school choice at the expense of every child in the district. If schools in Seattle were smaller and there was busing only to your neighborhood school, the quality of schools would increase. The fact that this fiasco has been allowed to continue for years when it is draining the financial coffers of the school district to the point of being literally millions of dollars in the red, it ridiculous and, I believe, criminal. Top this off with a pool of some of the worst principals I have ever encountered and you have a pathetic example of just how bad public school districts can be. It is no wonder that Seattle has the highest percentage of children in private school of any large city in this country: 33%.

It saddens me to hear parents and teachers say that things are all right the way they are when they live in a district like Seattle where things are really bad. When you have seen public schools run beautifully, with happy children and satisfied parents, healthy budgets and ample materials, you will understand just how good public schools can be. If I lived in a different district, I would probably have a much more positive view of public schools.

[Flor]

Originally Posted by Leatherette

I hear that, but there are many families that wouldn't have food if they had to come up with 4000 dollars (0r more - the cheapest private school I have seen is 6500), and wouldn't be able to volunteer to make the homey little private school work, because they already needed to work three jobs anyway, with no car and not even a hope of a vacation or a day off.

L.

My private school was 10,000 a year but my parents paid ZERO dollars a month because I was on scholarship, as were 50% of my peers. Some schools value economic diversity.

Again, the public school I work in is not economically diverse. Everyone is poor. I don't think it is exposing my child to people he wouldn't normally meet, these are his neighbors. I am happy my little one will go to a private school where he will meet people with different life experiences than we have had, and parents with a similar philosophy.

[mamajama]

For those opposed to public schools. What would your solution be for low-income, and single-parent families?

[ecoteat]

I have volunteered/student-taught/taught in 8 different public schools in 3 states over the past 10 years. Asking such a broad question is pretty meaningless. As a part of our society, of course I support free education for every young member of our population. But what that education looks like is drastically different from one school to the next. The two schools I have had full-time teaching jobs in are so completely different it's hard to even put them in the same category of "public school." One was a 600-kid 6th-8th grade middle school in a working-class Boston suburb that was driven by the state assessment. The other has 60 kids from preK-8th grade on the coast of Maine that makes its decisions based on what is best for each individual kid. You can't possibly compare these two schools. Obviously, the little school has huge advantages. If more public schools were like this one, I think we'd all be much better off.

[boongirl]

Originally Posted by mamajama

For those opposed to public schools. What would your solution be for low-income, and single-parent families?

Get behind the charter school movement. Support a local board member. Go to school board meetings. Be a thorn in the school's side. Find a way to write and get grants. Call other schools where kids and families are successful and happy and ask them for advice. Seek out scholarships at private schools. Get together with a group of kids and families in your neighborhood and start a homeschool or an afterschool enrichment program.

The irony in my school district is that poor kids' schools get more money than middle class kids' schools. The district uses what they call a "weighted student" financial plan. Students of color, poverty, special ed kids, they all are "heavier" and get more funds to their school. Also, in the poorest end of the district, there has been the most corporate donations to very interesting programs. The schools in well-off neighborhoods have heavy donations to pta coffers. My neighborhood is in between and the schools closest to my house have nothing going for them, sad to say.