Myths: Autism, Asperger's, ADHD, and ADD (long) - Page 3

[ernestholmes]

No offense, but my child completely turns your entire claim that mercury is the only cause in the whole wide world for autism.

She's never been vaccinated, never exposed to mercury, has no mercury in her blood or soft tissue and never has, and is autistic. She could never recover from chelation.

There is real danger to all of our kids present and future when a party line is established that refuses to look at any other view but their own.

I am rabidly opposed to vaccinating, which is why my child didn't have any and why I am an anti vaccine activist. However, pinning the entire cause of autism on that one thing is faulty and dangerous logic.

autism definitely has a genetic link in some cases, it's been proven through chormosome chains, rather than the mysterious gene you thin ought to have been found to prove it. My child's special ed lawyer is autistic and had three autistic children. It can be genetically motivated in some cases. Let's stay away from absolute dogma on all fronts so taht someday we can find a cure.

My 2 cents.

[sparklemama]

Originally Posted by ernestholmes

No offense, but my child completely turns your entire claim that mercury is the only cause in the whole wide world for autism.

....

I am rabidly opposed to vaccinating, which is why my child didn't have any and why I am an anti vaccine activist. However, pinning the entire cause of autism on that one thing is faulty and dangerous logic.

No offense here either, but no one here or in the article is saying that vaccines are the entire cause of autism! Thimerosal-containing vaccines played a part in the autism "epidemic" over the last decade or so but obviously autism existed before that so it's not even REMOTELY possible for someone to argue that vaccines are the sole cause of autism.

And it's completely impossible for anyone to say that they are certain their child has never been exposed to mercury. Mercury isn't some rare thing that only comes from fish and vaccines!

[ernestholmes]

The determination of exposure to mercury is made by its pressence either in the blood or soft tissue.

Anyone can walk across a freeway in any city and be exposed to mercury.

The matter at hand is whether that exposure made an impact on the body of the person assumed to be exposed. No trace of mercury has ever been found in the body or blood stream of my child, therefore I can accurately tell you that my child is not autistic because of mercury exposure. She has undergone DMSA challenge to determine this several times since her infancy.

I am very uncomfortable with dogma on this issue. The orginal post did state that autism was from mercury, that it was proven autism is not a genetic defect.

I am telling you those things are not true. Not only from my own child, but also from the thousands of hours of research and discussion I have done on the subejct since my child was diagnosed.

It feels good to galvanize and get angry and do all that, I have done that in spades myself - at anyone or anything that may have possibly had a hand in my child's disability. However, it is not helpful in getting at a cure or any anwers in clinging to claims that are not based in scientific reality. Just as the medical industry flat out refuses to look at scientific proof that vaccines do cause autism.

No one is an expert at this yet. However I am the closest thing to expert that there is on what's happened to my own child and why she is autistic. She does not fit the claims in the original post. Therefore it cannot be 100% accurate and all knowing as is seems to be claiming.

[sparklemama]

Originally Posted by ernestholmes

I am very uncomfortable with dogma on this issue. The orginal post did state that autism was from mercury, that it was proven autism is not a genetic defect.

I was speaking about the statement that has been made a few times on this thread arguing that vaccines are not, and can not, be the sole cause of autism when in fact, that is not even what the article (or anyone else here) was ever saying. Obviously the article says autism is from mercury poisoning, that's pretty clear, and then it goes on to talk about vaccines. I just think people weren't reading past the first few paragraphs to read that it's not saying vaccines are the sole cause of autism. NO one is saying that, it would be ridiculous to say that.

I, too, disagree with the article in some ways...I do think there is a genetic component (the predisposition thing) and I do think it's more than mercury as I've said but there's so much we don't know, that no one can say for a fact what did cause OR what didn't cause their child's autism.

I am not fond of the way the article was written because it DOES have some great info, but it has an in-your-face quality that turns people off from the get-go.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by ernestholmes

No one is an expert at this yet. However I am the closest thing to expert that there is on what's happened to my own child and why she is autistic. She does not fit the claims in the original post. Therefore it cannot be 100% accurate and all knowing as is seems to be claiming.

I would be interested to know what you believe caused your child's autism. Is it "full-blown" autism or is she on the spectrum somewhere? You say you believe it is genetic, do you have autistic parents or grandparents? Are you or your DH on the spectrum? You speak of your child's special ed lawyer as being autistic (I presume he is on the spectrum), and his children being autistic -- were they vaccinated? (Just asking.) I wonder if in his case it is rather more epigenetic than genetic.

The fact your child is autistic without being vaccinated or poisoned by environmental toxins doesn't mean that the majority of autistic children aren't. I don't think the fact that the link between mercury (thimerosal) and autism is dogma. Frankly, by making autism primarily genetic in nature is a travesty also, and is a wonderful get out for the medical/pharma cartels. It gets them off the hook, they can lift up their arms and say, "Sorry nothing to do with us (and our poisons), its your bad genes."

How about the link between gut and behavior? Has this also been dismissed in the case of your DD? A trashed maternal gut can be passed onto a baby and can cause autistic-like symptoms.

[bluesky74]

It probably *is* possible that your child has non-mercury related Autism. However, to say that you know that he has no mercury toxicity in his body b/c of blood, soft tissues, and chelation challenge(s), this is still not solid evidence that there is not a mercury problem. Mercury hides, and levels in the blood should not be used to determine toxcitiy, and the only way to "tell" if mercury is in soft tissues you would need to do a biopsy. A DMSA/DMPS challenge also does not guarentee that mercury will come out right away - mercury that has crossed the BBB (blood brain barrier) does not come out w/ DMPS or DMSA - you need to add another chelator such as ALA to get the mercury out of the brain.

Another issue to address would be that of amalgam fillings. Do you have any? Did you eat fish during pg, or inhale toxic air? It is difficult to know the answers to the latter 2 questions, but if 1 out of 12 women of childbearing age in this country has enough mercury to harm their fetus before she even becomes pregnant, then it is quite possible that ANY of us could be that woman w/o even knowing it...

Never say never....

[bluesky74]

It is probably possible that your child could have a non-metal related form of Autism. But "knowing" that he isn't toxic based on blood tests is not considered a good way of finding out, nor is soft tissue unless you hada biopsy. And DMSA challenges do not necessarily mean you are going to see the mercury come out right away - mercury hides, and especially in the brain, which could not have been coaxed out from DMSA since it does not cross the BBB (blood brain barrier) - you would have to add say, ALA to get the mercury out of the brain during chelation.

Do you have amalgam fillings?

Did you know that 1 in 12 women of childbearing age already has enough mercury in her body before she is pg to harm her future fetus? That could be any of us.

[bluesky74]

Stunning evidence

Here's another stunning piece of info that fuels the mercury-autism connection -- I just read that in one study, 99% of 503 ASD patients exhibited abnormal metal metabolism, conducted by Dr. Walsh, a noted biochemist of the Pfeiffer Treatment Center in Naperville, Illinois. (Dr. Jaquelyn McCandless, “Children with Starving Brains” - 2nd edition, Bramble Books, 2003: pg 19)

Hmmmmm.

Meg

[Empress]

My daughter was not vaccinated until after she was diagnosed with autism, and she has improved greatly in the last year despite being vaccinated with vaxes that no longer contain thermasol.

I'm sorry, but I think the mercury connection is tenuous at best. I don't support organizations that fund mercury research and push chelation. It's a red herring, and full of fuzzy science.

[Empress]

Originally Posted by bluesky74

Chelation (certain drugs) is actually "approved" by the FDA (not that that means anything to me anymore!! )

Cigna, (health insurance) covers chelation. And it IS safe when done under the watch of an experienced MD.

Chelation is only FDA approved for lead and iron poisoning for children, and if it is covered under your insurance someone is doing unethical billing.

[bluesky74]

Chelation draws metals out. Until recently there wasn't a known need to draw out mercury in children's bodies until it was discovered that these kids have mercury poisoning. Chelation draws out ALL heavy metals. It doesn't make it any more or less risky just b/c you say you're chelating mercury. You're chelating the lead as well.

And "fuzzy science"??? Haven't you been reading study after study that is showing how toxic thimerisol is??? How safe do you honestly think it is to inject mercury into tiny human beings???

If vaccines didn't play a role in my childrens' autism, then why on earth do they, and thousands of other ASD kids have mercury poisoning? Over 200 mcg's of the stuff was injected into their bloodstream from the time they were 1 mos old until they were about 2 yrs old - .4 mcg is considered "safe" DAILY exposure for an ADULT.

If you don't believe there is a connection now, I guarentee you will have a change of heart once this issue hits the mainstream media. Its going to be even bigger than the tabacco contraversy. CDC has been trying to cover up information about mercury-autism for yrs but thanks to the Freedom of Information Act, parents, lawyers, doctors, everyone has become privy to the truth, and the truth is rather scary.

[Empress]

There is plenty of information available that disputes the mercury/autism claim, as well as the use of chelation. In fact, children have died from chelation therapy, even if it has used for lead poisoning. That alone makes me hesitant to even cosider it a viable treatment option for autism.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11640868/

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5508a3.htm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06006/633541.stm

http://www.chelationwatch.org/

Neurodiversity.com is one of the best resources for autism on the web. This is the blog.

http://www.neurodiversity.com/weblog/

http://www.autismdiva.blogspot.com/

Basically, my point is that if I was distrustful enough to not vaccinate, that I should have a healthy skepticism for chelation as well. It is still a chemical compound no matter how it enters the body and can have possible adverse effects...just like vaccines.

[bluesky74]

You can post whatever links you feel support your claims, as can I - I have almost 100 links I could share with you to rebutt the sites you have listed.

FYI the chelators given to thost 2 children who died as a result were not treated with the proper dosages, or the safer drugs that are available. And the thousands of children who have either improved or recovered from chelation are not given half as much attention in the media as those who die from it - 1 or 2 people die and somehow that negates the positive outcomes for so many others.

And nothing that one reads on the CDC site should be considered a trustworthy source.

That lady's blog is lenghty, and I admire her dedication towards finding the facts. But she, and others who conitnue to deny the link between heavy metals and autism are ignoring good, sound science. Unfortuately the "science" uses to support CDC claims that refute any connection are "junk" as you would say, for reasons of special interests. The scientists who concducted the european studies that CDC loves to tout were found out by the public after the fact to have financial ties to Big Pharma.

You see, this is how it goes for me - I am not a conspiracy theorist by nature, but this whole issue has led me to be quite skeptical of the allopathic medical community, our government, and our health agencies. Follow the money behind this issue and it will make all the more sense.

All I know at this point are the fact that my twins were fully vax'd with injections that contained mercury. I also know that I can see for myself on paper that they have something wrong with their ability to excreet metals from their bodies - particularily Hg. Their blood, urine, and hair tests read like an incriminating CSI episode. Its truly amazing what these test results show, and no, my Dr isn't "tricking" us into chelation. There is a freak at every turn in EVERY field, but the majority of Dr's who are trying to help children w/ autism are not out to make $$ off of them. My Dr. is 80 yrs old and has written book after book on the environmental effects on us, he's been around long enough to actually witness our people become sicker and sicker, esp our children.

One more thought - what do you think caused the rate of autism to pretty much match the increase in amount of thimerisol babies received since 1930, and why do you now think that reported rates are dropping right along w/ the pace that thimerisol is being removed from vaccines?

[Empress]

I don't believe the autism rates are declining, I think at most they may be leveling off because I do think a portion of children affected by ASD are from vaccinations. But I know for my child and from what other people have shared on this thread there is little chance of an autism/mercury link since they were never vaxed and signs were apparent from birth, and my issue with Generation Resuce and other vehement autism/mercury supporters is that they claim all autism is directly related and there is NOTHING to support that. When I say it is a red herring, it is because while a small portion is related to mercury, what about the rest?

I would never suggest to someone who's child was recently diagnosed with ASD to seek out chelation right off the bat. And if they were dead set on it, I would direct them towards a naturopathic practioner who uses supplements instead of any chemicals. I think a parent's time is better spent going through a complete developmental assessment and gathering a supportive network of neutral and compassionate professionals, starting OT and ST, researching and implementing a behavioral therapy program, and modifying diet. All of those are much more important than chelation, and have a documented history of actually helping children with ASD.

[bluesky74]

"I don't believe the autism rates are declining"

Well they are, and there is proof of this - our doctor said he received the "official word" that rates were actually declining, not "leveling off."

"there is little chance of an autism/mercury link since they were never vaxed and signs were apparent from birth"

There are other ways that mercury can harm a child - when the pregant mother has amalgam fillings, her fetus is exposed to mercury that crosses the placenta. There is also the Rhogam shot that up until just recently contained 25 mcg of mercury - but 0.1 mcg per kilo of body weight is considered "safe"... again, the Hg crosses the placenta. And let's not forget the Flu shot, same story.

"and my issue with Generation Resuce and other vehement autism/mercury supporters is that they claim all autism is directly related and there is NOTHING to support that. "

Nothing???? There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence to support that most cases of ASD are metal-related. Why then, would 99% of 503 ASD show metal metabolism abnormalities??? The evidence continues to pile up, and it is incriminating Hg.

"I would never suggest to someone who's child was recently diagnosed with ASD to seek out chelation right off the bat....gathering a supportive network of neutral and compassionate professionals, starting OT and ST, researching and implementing a behavioral therapy program, and modifying diet. All of those are much more important than chelation, and have a documented history of actually helping children with ASD."

And when you have done all of this, then what? When you have the hair, urine and blood tests all come back showing Hg toxicity, what do you suggest? There are many many chelating drugs out there, and the most popular and effective one's are very gentle - DMSA & DMPS. Some people only chelate w/ ALA, no rx needed. I am glad you have found a way to deal w/ your child's ASD. I personally cannot look at my boys *knowing* that they have mercury on their brain tissue and not try to get that mercury out. It is not long from today that chelation will be par for the course in treating these kids, and when done safely it can be life-changing, and has been for thousands of families.

[thoesly]

Originally Posted by bluesky74

It is not long from today that chelation will be par for the course in treating these kids, and when done safely it can be life-changing, and has been for thousands of families.

Have you completed chelation yet? I'm just curious because I personally know many families who have completed the protocol with DAN! doctors, and while most all of them have found it to help their children, not a one would characterize the improvements as "life-changing." I also just checked the ARI's list of parent ratings for treatments: http://www.autismwebsite.com/ari/treatment/form34q.htm

If you check under Detox (chelation), you will see that most children did get better (76%). But you will also see that some parents felt it had no effect (22%), and some felt that their child got worse (2%). I'm not trying to be argumentative -- chelation has helped *many* people -- but I think it's important to acknowledge that percentage for whom chelation wasn't helpful. A parent who chooses against chelation (or any other treatment) is not a bad parent -- and that is the tone I'm picking up on from your recent posts.

I truly hope you get the miracle you are looking for, but please be respectful of those who make different choices.

[Empress]

Originally Posted by bluesky74

Well they are, and there is proof of this - our doctor said he received the "official word" that rates were actually declining, not "leveling off."

I'd love to see the link for this then. I can admit when I am wrong.

There are other ways that mercury can harm a child - when the pregant mother has amalgam fillings, her fetus is exposed to mercury that crosses the placenta. There is also the Rhogam shot that up until just recently contained 25 mcg of mercury - but 0.1 mcg per kilo of body weight is considered "safe"... again, the Hg crosses the placenta. And let's not forget the Flu shot, same story.

I haven't had dental work since I was a teenager. No need for Rhogam. I have never had the flu shot, and I refused the hep B series even though I've worked in healthcare. I don't like seafood so we don't eat it. And again, my kids were not vaccinated before they showed develolopmental delays (my son also has developmental delays similar to his sister, but is not on the spectrum.) I have no reason to suspect mercury to be the cause of their special needs, therefore I am not going to spend money we do not have on testing for it. In fact, I wish we did have more money so I could pay for adequate OT for them because I really think it would make a huge difference with their SID and low-muscle tone.

And when you have done all of this, then what? When you have the hair, urine and blood tests all come back showing Hg toxicity, what do you suggest? There are many many chelating drugs out there, and the most popular and effective one's are very gentle - DMSA & DMPS. Some people only chelate w/ ALA, no rx needed. I am glad you have found a way to deal w/ your child's ASD. I personally cannot look at my boys *knowing* that they have mercury on their brain tissue and not try to get that mercury out. It is not long from today that chelation will be par for the course in treating these kids, and when done safely it can be life-changing, and has been for thousands of families.

And what if a family goes right into chelation and it doesn't work, or there is improvement but not a significant amount? Time has been lost, there is solid research that indicates the earlier a child participates in a multidisciplinary therapy program (an appropriate developmental behavioral therapy, OT, and ST) the more improvement they will show, and in many cases by school age they will be very high-functioning or not on the spectrum at all.

I think my overly defensive and emotional reaction to the mercury/autism link is that I feel like many families, mine included, are being shoved to the side in the rush to prove a specific cause and find a "quick fix." I know in my heart it is unlikely my kids are the way they are because of mercury. I also know that they need help, and it's frustrating because the help isn't enough or even there. I think ALL kids, no matter what caused ASD, deserve extensive behvioral therapy, OT, and ST; no matter if they're familiy is rich or poor, has insurance or not. I wonder why all this money and attention is going to something that may or may not be true, when early interventions programs are losing funding, insurance companies will not pay for speech therapy for a child with developmental disability but will for an adult stroke patient (nothing again stroke patients, but I don't see why the child deserves it less than the other), schools cannot meet basic educational laws for special needs kids, etc. I am scared that society just wants a pill or treatment to make this go away then address that special needs kids deserve as much as anyone else in society.

[pb_and_j]

Originally Posted by Empress

I think ALL kids, no matter what caused ASD, deserve extensive behvioral therapy, OT, and ST; no matter if they're familiy is rich or poor, has insurance or not. I wonder why all this money and attention is going to something that may or may not be true, when early interventions programs are losing funding, insurance companies will not pay for speech therapy for a child with developmental disability but will for an adult stroke patient (nothing again stroke patients, but I don't see why the child deserves it less than the other), schools cannot meet basic educational laws for special needs kids, etc. I am scared that society just wants a pill or treatment to make this go away then address that special needs kids deserve as much as anyone else in society.

Are you getting services through your school? If your child is diagnosed w/ a disability, your child is covered by IDEA. Your child has the right to a free and appropriate public education and the therapies are part of that. If your child is not getting adequate therapies or is not improving, the school is obligated to either provide them for you or pay for someone else to provide them. You can demand evaluations and if you disagree w/ the findings, the school has to pay for someone else to do them. If the other person finds that your child needs more therapy than the school is giving, then the school has to pay for it. This isn't a matter of the school not having funding... your child is legally entitled to these services. Period.

[DaNeece]

Originally Posted by Empress

I don't believe the autism rates are declining, I think at most they may be leveling off because I do think a portion of children affected by ASD are from vaccinations. But I know for my child and from what other people have shared on this thread there is little chance of an autism/mercury link since they were never vaxed and signs were apparent from birth, and my issue with Generation Resuce and other vehement autism/mercury supporters is that they claim all autism is directly related and there is NOTHING to support that. When I say it is a red herring, it is because while a small portion is related to mercury, what about the rest?

I would never suggest to someone who's child was recently diagnosed with ASD to seek out chelation right off the bat. And if they were dead set on it, I would direct them towards a naturopathic practioner who uses supplements instead of any chemicals. I think a parent's time is better spent going through a complete developmental assessment and gathering a supportive network of neutral and compassionate professionals, starting OT and ST, researching and implementing a behavioral therapy program, and modifying diet. All of those are much more important than chelation, and have a documented history of actually helping children with ASD.

I agree 100%

[bluesky74]

Autism rates decline

Unfortunately this story has archived, but here's the intro:

"Autism diagnoses have dropped nationwide since mercury was removed from most childhood vaccines, according to a new study that some say lends credence to charges that vaccinations were responsible for a huge increase in autism cases." http://www.dailynewstribune.com/loca...format=&page=1

I do not necessarily believe Hg is the one and only culprit either. On pg 19 of Dr. McCandless' book "Children With Starving Brains" she says:

"There are two basic types of autism: autism from birth (classic autism once known as Kanner's Syndrome) and regressive autism which generally occurs between 12 and 24 months of age after a period of normal development and behavior." She goes on to say that the incidence of classic autism remains the same - about 1 in 10,000 births. Regressive autism rates however are the cases we have seen increase.

It could be a number of other factors involved in "classic" autism - mother's diet/exposure to envrinmental toxins, genetics, congenital birth defect, etc, or a combination of all or some of the above. Hopefully one day we will know definitively.

I am defensive about chelation therapy for a few reasons. First, we have tried everything with our boys - therapies, diets, behavior mod, changing schools, supplements... all have been effective. And now we are moving on to the next step - getting the mercury out so that hopefully one day these interventions will no longer be as necessary. Maybe they will. Maybe we will not see the improvements we hope to. But we are willing to take the chance, especially after having researched for month after month, the good, the bad and the ugly information related to this treatment. We know there are many chelators out there, ranging from mild to extreme. We are not only starting with one of the most mild agents, but we are starting at a 1/3 of the dose recommended, and we are armed w/ our Dr's and our Pharmacist's support and knowledge. We will go into this knowing as much as we possibly can, and looking for signs that warrent arresting the process.

It gives me a wonderful feeling to hear from so many parents how much chelation has helped their kids. I hear it over and over, things like: "My son is a different child," "My child doesn't qualify for ST/OT etc, any longer", "My son is making eye contact again, saying words he used to say..."

These are real people w/ real success stories. We hope to be one of those families too, but if nothing comes out of chelation therapy for our boys, at least we know we have tried everything we as our childrens' parents knew to try. Maybe other treatments will arise in the future. Homeopathy is another path we will consider if chelation doesn't "work", but we feel it will, esp judging from the incredible effect suppplementation has had on the twins. Their Hg toxicity requires the much higher dosing of supplements that their bodies do not absorb well, like zinc, B-12 and folic acid to just name a few (thus the title of the book "Children With Starving Brains").

I sort of look at this issue along the same lines as chemotherapy, although I realize you can't really compare the 2 - yes it can be risky but in the end, it is more than likely that we will see the results we are expecting to see.