Addressing the Special Needs of Gifted Children, #8

[OTMomma]

A place to talk about all the issues of parenting gifted children.
Please come talk with us.

[mamaverdi]

Subbing.

I know Rynna....so what is the deal? I mean can non-gifted children not listen to these books and remember from reading to reading what has happened? Or maybe it's the content that's too scary or something? I seriously have no clue.

Judy Moody is this kind of hilarious little girl that is hard to explain. My favorite is Judy Moody Gets Famous:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076...Fencoding=UTF8

It says above that the book is for 6-10 year olds....so go figure. I figured about that.

mv

[LeftField]

I'm subscribing...

Random update stuff from us, since we're so slack in posting lately...

My 4yr old taught me something about space the other day and I had to subsequently check my understanding with dh. He asked me if he could have a piece of the inside of the sun and when I told him he couldn't, he wanted to know why. When I told him that the sun was gas and fire, he patiently explained, "No, Mama. It's not fire. The man at the Planetarium said it's not fire. It LOOKS like fire, but it's just gas." Hmmm. He really looked like he wasn't paying attention when we went to the Observatory, but apparently *I* was the one not paying attention. BTW, does anyone's kid do this? Dreamer (4yo) often looks like he's completely not listening, like he's staring off into space and zoning out. But he's really listening to absolutely everything and can tell us what we just read or whatnot. I'm sure I've accused him of not paying attention before, but I guess that's what it looks like when he IS paying attention. (?)

His 5th birthday is coming up and I think we're going to buy him an engine kit. The space obsession of last year is just general interest now. His current obsession is automotives, especially engines. I think it started a year ago when he saw the Magic Schoolbus episode on engines. But now, it's the major theme in his drawings and he talks about it all the time. When we get out of the car, he tries to look under it to see if he can see anything good. Let me see if I can find some drawings he did. I'll do that in reply to this, because I have to find them first. His favorite part of the engine are the cylinders and he talks about this stuff ALL the time.

DH has taken him to the automotive museum. Dh works in the office side of automotives, so when he gets a chance to walk around the plant, he describes what he saw at suppertime. We got a GREAT book on cars and engines, one of those DK Eyewitness books. It has tons of photographs of cars and various sub-assemblies taken apart.

So I think that for his birthday, we need to get him that see-through engine kit that's out there (Smithsonian?). Dh would have to put most of it together, but Dreamer would be in heaven just touching the cylinders and various parts. And once it's together, it can be hand-cranked, so he could fire the engine up as much as he wanted. How weird is it that I'm buying my kid an engine for his 5th birthday instead of some toy??

Little Dynamo hasn't been writing so much lately, after he pulled that stunt of writing his name and attempting, "DADDY". I'm not sure what he's been doing. Right now, they're upstairs pretending to go on a trip. They do stuff like this all day, when they're not bickering. It's all imaginary play, although they might argue about the details now that Dynamo (almost 29 months!) no longer follows all of Dreamer's leads. Yesterday, they were arguing, because Dreamer wanted to go to England, but Dynamo was going to Africa; they were almost at the point of tears and I was pulling my hair out.

Here's a question and I don't care what the answer is, just curious. Is it unusual, do you think, for a 29 month old to speak through his toys in a funny voice and have the toys ask me for things that I won't give him? His dinosaur repeatedly asked me for yogurt yesterday, because Dynamo had already had yogurt and he knew I wouldn't give him another. It's this really funny high-pitched voice that cracks me up. Totally OT, but Dreamer's dinosaurs are most definitely strictly "plant-eaters" while Dynamo's all seem to eat people; that goes right with their personalities. They are SO different from each other!

How are you guys all doing?

[LeftField]

Ok, here are a few braggy pictures.

Here are two of Dreamer's automotive drawings:

This one is of an engine as he imagines it to look. The sketch next to it is the truck that the engine is in. It's an aerial view of the truck with the hood popped.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums
/y6/hrk72/Art/ben_jan06_engine3.jpg

This one is of a car being assembled in a factory. Each sketch is a very specific part of the car. For example, the four things that look like lollipops in the bottom left are cylinders. The two dots at the very top are fog lights.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/hrk72
/Art/ben_feb06_work.jpg

And this one isn't related to automotives at all, but I just liked it. This is Big Ben in London, based on a photograph.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums
/y6/hrk72/Art/ben_jan06_bigben.jpg

He really wants to take an art class at the museum, but I'm nervous about the emphasis on technique for his age. It's a homeschool (i.e. open ages) class, so it seems like they would expect different things from different ages. The typical "kids' art class" format is not working for him, because it's just crafts and he gets frustrated that he has to continually switch projects. He would prefer to spend the whole class just doing one thing, I think. But I'm nervous a class on technique, even for kids, could turn him off. Does anyone have any exp with this?

ETA: Sorry, I had to break my links to get them to show up fully.

[eilonwy]

I have no idea what a typical attention span is like, I guess... BeanBean is 40 months old, BooBah is 21 months old, and they can both sit still and listen to a story for a solid hour; they do it on a regular basis. BeanBean has watched movies with his cousins, and aside from once having an accident (he was very involved in whatever it was that they were watching ) he's had no problems with it.

ChibiChibi used to have her dolls ask for things that she wasn't allowed to have. I distinctly remember her using this technique from about 19 months on. BeanBean would just go looking on his own. Like, yogurt: we have no way of locking the fridge (I did it, but BooBah built a tower, then BeanBean climbed it and pulled the lock right off with a butter knife!!), so when BeanBean wants yogurt, he just opens the fridge and gets it. Given the opportunity, he will eat half a dozen cups of yogurt before I can even get out of bed... The little punk.

Incidentally, the kids find it very amusing to ask one of us and see if they can get a different answer from the other parent. They rarely (if ever) do, but they still get a kick out of asking.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by LeftField

He really wants to take an art class at the museum, but I'm nervous about the emphasis on technique for his age. It's a homeschool (i.e. open ages) class, so it seems like they would expect different things from different ages. The typical "kids' art class" format is not working for him, because it's just crafts and he gets frustrated that he has to continually switch projects. He would prefer to spend the whole class just doing one thing, I think. But I'm nervous a class on technique, even for kids, could turn him off. Does anyone have any exp with this?

I'd ask if they'd let him do a trial class, and if he likes it, go for it. It sounds like he knows what he wants, and it could be loads of fun for him.

BeanBean is *loving* his art class, by the way. He just really gets a kick out of it. They did a whole bunch of projects on the first day and he was all about that.

[alegna]

Greetings again all. Savannah does that spaced out thing but then remembers everything... it's weird.... She was slow (in my book) to start talking, and often still doesn't (quiet like mama) but then all of a sudden she'll pipe in with something and it's obvious that she's been soaking up everything... Her favorite passtime these days is to find letters around and identify them. Last I checked she can identify at least 7-8 words.... some obvious (cat, dog, fish) some harder and more abstract- play. The little bugger still won't say her own name though She KNOWS who Savannah is- will point to herself. She can read her name. But if you ask her her name, the only response she will give is "baby" (when she cares to respond)

We were at a tournament last weekend with lots of people we know, but don't see often, and everyone found it odd to have an opinionated 19mo old I thought they were all opinionated... but apparently not.

-Angela

[Destinye]

I just wanted to say thanks for the great book suggestions I was given on this thread. DD (nearly 26 mo now) has been really enjoying Richard Scarry, and the Chica Chica 1, 2, 3 and Boom Boom books as well as developed a love of nursery rhymes, which she sings (badly!) a lot right now, as she seems to be working on her singing, she taught herself the ABC song from a Richard Scarry DVD the other day. We do let her watch DVD's and go to Starfall and other websites normally, but have some guilt about it, but she really enjoys it, plus we have been moving and travelling a lot and it has been helpful with that.

She is definitely sensitive to adult TV though and we are staying with my SIL while we purchase some land to build on, and she watches more TV, so we have to be careful when DD and I come in the room when the TV is on, one day there was a movie of holocaust victims sitting on a train going to a concentration camp, and we came in the room, DD looked at the screen and got very upset and so we turned it off, the weird thing is nobody was saying or doing anything but DD picked up on the emotions.

She is also quite upset about Humpty Dumpty and have to explain he is ok, its not real etc etc.

I am still in the 'waiting to see if she is gifted' mindset, but she just learns like a sponge, its amazing. Knows 12 + colors, shapes, has known the alphabet for a while (18 mo) and counts almost to 20 but is counting numbers of objects now too. She is definitely opinionated though! She was before she was even born - she came to me in a dream and told me emphatically she wanted me to be her mother. She has not changed.

The other day I was trying to leave to go somewhere and she said Mummy Be patient! Oops.

Anyhow thanks for the great suggestions from this thread, they have really helped, and DD is very much interested in reading again. She will sit and 'read' books to herself for an hour or two every day. When she wants me to read to her she brings them but often she does not want me to except at night. I guess its ok she 'reads' by herself.

[ChristaN]

Thanks for the new thread although I always wonder if I am going to lose people by pulling quotes from the end of the last thread -- nah, I'm underestimating you all, huh?

With that in mind, just to briefly address this:

That said, there could be something totally outside of what you have mentioned (doing algebra, playing an instrument) that would put the child into the "Gifted" category.

No, she can add and subtract basic numbers -- don't know if she can carry or borrow, but nothing beyond that. Her mom mentioned that she was working on 2+__ (numbers up to 10) right now. I do know the math teacher she has, and she's Miss memorization of math facts, though, so her math assignments are boring. She doesn't play any musical instruments and her art work is very age appropriate. Okay... off to another topic.

I know Rynna....so what is the deal? I mean can non-gifted children not listen to these books and remember from reading to reading what has happened? Or maybe it's the content that's too scary or something? I seriously have no clue.

I do think that it is an attention span issue as others have touched on here. I don't think that many of them can follow the story nor maintain an interest long enough to listen to (and thus comprehend) a long story with no pictures.

I do have to admit that my older dd has a longer attention span than my little one, but my younger one (5 y/o) seems perfectly happy to listen to and capable of following the gist of the choose your own adventure stories or whatever else dd#1 and I are tag-team reading together.

I do have a question about my younger one, though, in relation to reading. She is an early reader (by early reader, I mean that she is still in the learning stage, not that she is reading early). She's doing well in relation to her age-peers (reads probably early first grade books), but her capabilities in that department still have her in the "learning to read" books. She has been listening to much more interesting books from her sister and me reading to her for a long time. She finds the books that she is capable of reading boring and she's very unwilling to read most of the time -- just wants us to read to her. I worry, however, that her reading will not improve enough for her to be able to read more interesting books if she doesn't ever "practice," though.

She is really, really good at math, but she is just totally unmotivated about many things and just seems to lack the passion and persistance that her older sister has. I don't know how to ignite that or if I should just not worry about it and not care if she doesn't put any effort into things. This isn't just in relation to academics; she also doesn't practice her dancing for her dance class and if I ask her to do anything, she says that she doesn't like it and doesn't want to do it anymore. I truly don't try to force her into things -- she wanted to dance. She asks for books, she wants whatever it is. Then she does a little bit and decides that she is done. It is just very frustrating to observe as a parent although she is not having any trouble in school or elsewhere. Her bare minimum effort seems to be enough to do well; I just worry about the apathy.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

It is just very frustrating to observe as a parent although she is not having any trouble in school or elsewhere. Her bare minimum effort seems to be enough to do well; I just worry about the apathy.

This is, to be frank, one of the reasons that I will never send my children to school. School encourages apathy, particularly in gifted children.

[loraxc]

I can say that Froglet (26 months) would definitely not sit still for a hundred-page book, let alone the Lord of the Rings--at least, I seriously doubt it. She's enjoying listening to easy readers right now, and wants them all the way through (so, maybe 40 pages of brief text?), but I can't see her sitting for something with no pictures and a complex vocabulary. The most difficult stuff she likes, IMO, is actually Beatrix Potter. (BP's books are much longer, darker, and more difficult than I remembered...e.g.: "Peter gave himself up for lost, and shed big tears; but his sobs were overheard by some friendly sparrows, who flew to him in great excitement and implored him to exert himself." Uh, why, yes: I DO have that memorized.) She will certainly read books for an hour at a time or more, but a large variety of picture books.

I do remember my brother reading LOTR to me when I was about 7. I could read very well then, but I doubt I would have read it on my own. I was interested in hearing it aloud, though.

[mamaverdi]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

This is, to be frank, one of the reasons that I will never send my children to school. School encourages apathy, particularly in gifted children.

I agree with this. I've seen it with my now six year old. Over and over. It is taking months and months for him to come back to the curious little self he once was. I really wish I had NEVER put him in school.

mv

[mamaverdi]

Originally Posted by LeftField

He really wants to take an art class at the museum, but I'm nervous about the emphasis on technique for his age. It's a homeschool (i.e. open ages) class, so it seems like they would expect different things from different ages. The typical "kids' art class" format is not working for him, because it's just crafts and he gets frustrated that he has to continually switch projects. He would prefer to spend the whole class just doing one thing, I think. But I'm nervous a class on technique, even for kids, could turn him off. Does anyone have any exp with this?

Why not call and see if you can find out who the teacher is and talk to him/her about how the class is run etc to see if it would be a good fit?

As an artist I sometimes find classes on techinique very very inspiring, no matter my age. Sometimes they're a drag. It depends on the teacher. And whether there is a "right or wrong" mentality.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by loraxc

I can say that Froglet (26 months) would definitely not sit still for a hundred-page book, let alone the Lord of the Rings--at least, I seriously doubt it. She's enjoying listening to easy readers right now, and wants them all the way through (so, maybe 40 pages of brief text?), but I can't see her sitting for something with no pictures and a complex vocabulary. The most difficult stuff she likes, IMO, is actually Beatrix Potter.

From what I have seen this is much more than most 26 month olds would listen to contentedly. The 2-3 year olds whom I currently know like looking at picture books, but won't listen to more than a few words/page. I.e. - they'll listen to a book that has a picture of a ball on a page and the word "ball" or a picture of a baby with the words "baby is smiling."

My girls certainly weren't listening to me read them LOTR at 2 either ! I'd say that they had the attention span for lengthy material like Narnia by about 4.5.

In regard to school turning off my younger dd and making her apathetic, I'm not sure if that is the case. She just has never had the fire and passion that her older sister has. School most certainly did quench that spark for dd #1 last year, but we've really turned things around. With dd#2, she just likes to play and never have anyone tell her how to do anything. Given that she is doing fine in kindergarten (exceeding end of year expectations according to her last report card in Dec.), seems happy enough and doesn't care to really learn anything, I just don't know if I should push it. She's kind of always been this way.

The main reason that she isn't reading better than she is or doing more advanced math isn't b/c she can't (at least I don't think), but b/c she has no interest in anyone teaching her how to do it and she doesn't seek it out herself. I tried to teach her a few things when it became obvious that she could read basic things or do addition/subtraction a year or two ago and she just wasn't interested. I didn't want to force it, so I just kept reading to her and exposing her to stuff but not asking her to do anything. Whenever I actually ask her to do anything, it suddenly becomes unpleasant and she doesn't want anything to do with it. It's amazing to me that the kid is doing as well as she is in kg sometimes especially b/c she is so much younger than the other kids.

[allgirls]

I wonder how long Sophia could sit and listen to a story if I had the patience to read for long periods of time. I try to...I really do but I just can't stand reading out loud. I read short little stories and she's fine except I have to read about 50 of them...so really, I am not really gaining am I?

The first thing I noticed with Sophia was a long attention span...Martina has it too.

I am up late because Sophia has decided this is a great day and she doesn't want it to end:

oh...baby whining...better run

cheers

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by allgirls

I wonder how long Sophia could sit and listen to a story if I had the patience to read for long periods of time. I try to...I really do but I just can't stand reading out loud. I read short little stories and she's fine except I have to read about 50 of them...so really, I am not really gaining am I?

I didn't like reading out loud, either, but the kids are so freaking appreciative it's not even funny. They absolutely love it!

The reason that I've been reading books with very short chapters to the kids is that I hate reading out loud; it has a lot less to do with the kids' attention spans than my own.

Mike pointed something out to me when I asked him what he thought of the attention span issue, though, and I think it might be relevant here. He said that when the kids aren't in the mood, I don't try to force stuff on them, and that while they do have exceptional attention spans for their ages, they appear to be even longer because I stop when the kids are finished, instead of when I am. He's absolutely right, but it's not something that I think about consciously these days (probably because the TCS thread long since fell to pieces ). So maybe my kids only have average to moderate attention spans the rest of the time?

[SleepyMamaBear]

subbing for now. will write more later.
i LOVE reading about everyones kids and what i can potentially look forward to with Addy.
she is currently obsessed with writing and drawing on anything marker will write on. and she waill say "x, m, t, daddy" or "e, m, z, cat" while she writes. it always has an M in it. hrmmmmm. she wants to spell so baddy. she also started walking abound pointing thins out "look mommy, Patters(our dogs name is peterick we call him petters often) puh puh patters" or "mama, emmm emmm mama." not mm mm mama but emm emm... she is such a little mystery. i am letting her take everything at her own pace, and she wants to sound things out and spell so badly i almost want to actively teach her, but i feel it would be kinda pushy, i have such a fear of being one of "those moms" that push their kids.... but then i also fear if i dont encourage her current passions she will lose interest.
like a pp dd i was extremely apathetic growing up. especially in school. i dont want that to happen to Addy, but i can imagine it probably will.
gotta run The Bean is up from nap.

[alegna]

Cute bit from the other day- Savannah was playing with her alphabet blocks. For a long time she would look at the blocks and sign the different animals and things on them. Then she would say them. Then she'd identify the letters and objects, etc. Well she's just getting interested in numbers too- she pulled one of the number blocks and identified the 4. Then turned it around to a 6. She says "six". Turns it upside down "nine" back around "six" "nine" did it several times. It was like -WOW check this out- it's the same symbol but it means different things depending on where it faces!

AddysMama- Savannah wants to spell too- she has started to be able to tell what letter words start with also.

-Angela

[mamaverdi]

I agree that attention span is all about interest. Maybe it's that other kids would have longer attention spans if anyone cared what they were interested in?

Apathy doesn't have to happen. But yeah, it could be in someone's personality. I did see a huge change with The Dragon (my older son) when he started preschool at 3. He wanted to go. I didn't want him to go. A month there and he stopped asking questions. And I got unused to answering them.

Addymama, I don't see anything wrong with directly teaching her something she wants to learn. In fact, I think that's the best time to do it.

Savannah is so quiet, but her little eyes are like WOW, she is listening to what we are saying.

DH and I have taken to speaking French again when both the boys or even just Little Bear (younger ds) are/is around.

After that freaky thing with Little Bear (who was 18 months) wanting us to keep reading Artemis Fowl, it's like, uh oh, what ARE we in for?

Shhhh...they can hear us.

mv

[alegna]

Originally Posted by mamaverdi

Shhhh...they can hear us.

mv

no kidding. Aren't we supposed to get to talk about things above their heads for a couple of years at least? At this rate within a year I won't be able to spell "secret" words without her knowing....