My perceptions of HS'ed kids growing up is influencing my decision now...advice? - Page 3

[momofcutie]

I just read this whole thread (because my husband has the same concern about hsing) and I have to say, I've been cracking up. (Especially about the high waters.) There are some witty mamas here!

Also, OT, but I have to mention that I clicked on the link about circ below Tanibani's sig and was amused to find this quote. Very funny when taken out of context!

"The animal kingdom would probably cease to exist without smegma."

OK, time to be an adult now...

My husband taught conservation education to school groups (both traditional school and hs groups) at a nature reserve for 4 years and his perception of hsers was similar to the OP's childhood perception. I think many people probably have that perception. There are some weird hsers! But I had to so helpfully remind my husband that he and his 2 brothers were dorks growing up (complete with big dorky glasses, Weird Al tapes, computer game tournaments and sci fi role playing games) and they went to public school all the way through! In fact, my husband still has all but the glasses. And the role playing games. Well, he'd still play the role playing games if he had other friends into it... It's funny that my husband is worried about the dork factor because he works for the Boy Scouts and wears a Scout uniform several times a week! I know the Scouts are great and all-but I don't know that they're cool. Especially for a grown man to be wearing the uniform! And dh is also an Eagle Scout. So he was into Scouting even as a teenager. Not cool, but it helped to make him into a better person. That's a lasting trait (unlike coolness.)

I was cooler growing up (less so now), but I also had an attitude and was a bit of a bully. I was a little chubby growing up (more so now) and that was how I kept the other kids from teasing me about it. Even kids who seem cooler on the outside struggle with feeling like dorks on the inside.
(BTW, I'm not a bully anymore! )

Like some of the other moms, I don't want us to stand out in terms of how we dress or groom ourselves (although I don't feel the need to wear makeup.) I think social skills are important, but school has been the most difficult place for my son socially. In kindergarten, he heard a kid call the teacher a f#*@ing b&#*h and learned from another kid about guys kissing women's boobs! I think his socialization will be much healthier in a more controlled environment. He gets overwhelmed and overstimulated in big, noisy groups of kids anyway.

My son is going to finish out this school year at school and we'll homeschool next year. I'm already looking into hsing groups and think I've found a good one.

To the OP, thanks for being brave enough to ask this question!

[taralv]

so funny. really. but i have also enjoyed reading what everyone wrote. my dd will be 5 in a couple of weeks and we are hsing. i've always planned this because we travel with dh frequently when he travels for work. sometimes weeks sometimes months at a time. anyway, recently i checked out a hs group and i'm still on the fence about whether or not we will join. they are a bit on the conservative side of a certain religion, but i could deal with that. we are catholic. for me it is the structure of the group - very structured curriculum and such - that doesn't really work for us as i have been implementing a sort of charlotte mason approach which works better for us. anyway, the whole point is that during our interaction with these families there were some highwater pants and such, but mostly the kids welcomed my children and were really sweet to me. i guess it's like everyone has said. people are people in the ps system or hsed. i have plenty of memories of ps, and the peer pressure is amazing. i guess i will have to vote for dorky overy "mean girls" when it comes to my kids, though i doubt my vote will have much influence. anyway, i won't be buying any trendy headgear anytime soon, regardless of whether or not it becomes hip. good thread.

tara

[Marsupialmom]

I didn't read all the tread but..............

As a child you looked at them as homeschooling caused them to be socially ackward. That can be a big difference in a childs eyes. When you are a child you look at why people are different. You just failed to understand that many of those socially ackward children would have been the school rejects anyway. I have seen that so many times in my homeschooling circle, the parents pulled the kid out because of the being a social misfit and being picked on.

[3momkmb]

I've been reading this thread and thinking on it Here is my experience with my own DD.

My DD was in school until the end of 4th grade. She would be in 7th this year so that's almost three years at home.

When she was in school she had few friends, only one actually and that one was not a good one. Very much a mean girl. She was openly mocked for her interests (home improvement shows, animals), teased about her clothes (she wore lots of the pink clothes?) and shunned pretty regularly by the *crowd*. In short she was an outcast.

Since she's been home she has several friends in our homeschool group (although none I would call a close friend) and easily talks to new kids when she joins a new group. She has some dork tendencies (specifically the need to talk about Harry Potter pretty much 24/7 at the moment) but has not been pigeon holed and shunned for it which has made all the difference. She tends to dress trendily, but also to flatter her figure which is something I don't see in PS kids (locally anyway) who seem to wear the latest fashions slavishly resulting in *muffin tops* and other faux paux . She fluctuates between wanting to hang out with her father and I and hanging out with the kids at homeschool functions. It depends who's there at the time. So basically to look at her you wouldn't see *dork* but to talk to her you might hear it

She is definitely *different* then her PSed peers and is quite proud of the fact BUT she was different when she was in school and not proud of it. If I had left her in school I know she would have changed herself to fit in (I could see it already starting). I did not want her to feel she had to change who she was in order not to be put through hell everyday. I would much rather have a dorky kid then a cool, popular one who has lost her self in the hive mentality of school.

Our group has everything from cool kids to dorks and everything in between. The great thing is nobody cares.

[momofcutie]

Originally Posted by 3momkmb

She has some dork tendencies (specifically the need to talk about Harry Potter pretty much 24/7 at the moment) but has not been pigeon holed and shunned for it which has made all the difference.

I hope you don't mind my asking, but does Maddie (?) have Asperger's? Re: the Harry Potter thing. My son's thing has been Bionicles for awhile now-he seems to be moving toward little Lego creations.

One of the reasons I want to homeschool is that I'd like to get away from the "what's wrong with Jacob and how to fix it" approach that the special ed system takes with kids with differences. I mean, I want to know what we're dealing with and want to address it in a helpful way to him. BUT, so far my son doesn't know he was in a "special" class. It was just school to him. As he gets older, he would be more aware of that and I think that would affect his self-esteem. I like what you said about there being a range of types of people in hsing just as in public school-but the difference is that no one cares! That's great! Everyone could use more acceptance.

[momofcutie]

The religion issue

I know this is a hot issue, but it's one I've considered too. I'm a Christian (raised non-denominational), but I attend Catholic Church with my husband off and on (I was confirmed Catholic as an adult with dh as my sponsor, but still "feel" like a non-denom Christian pretty much.) So religious discussions don't bother me. But the people who make everything they say about their faith sometimes seem to be bragging to me. "Look how holy I am." "Look how obedient we are." I'm more impressed by actions.

Ironically, our worst school experience was in a religious preschool. (Our Catholic church's preschool.) Jacob started having a really hard time at school. Other kids began calling him "bad Jacob" and "mean Jacob" and parents began to complain to the director of the school. And we weren't told about his difficulties for a couple months. Because they "like to try to handle things in the classroom first." Well, by this time, my son was hurting himself in class, hiding under tables, and fighting with other kids. He was saying, at 4, "I wish I could kill myself, and "I'm a loser." The school not telling us about all this earlier led to some real damage to Jacob's self-esteem. (This was before we knew he had an autism spectrum disorder.) They finally told us and then 3 weeks later, asked us to leave for the rest of the school year. They said we needed to work on things at home (as if we're a troubled family.) And this from our CHURCH'S school! It was a very painful time. We found the public schools to be more accepting and accomodating (by law, I know), but still not completely able to handle all his needs-especially his emotional ones.

So in looking for a hsing group, I've been a little afraid of joining a Christian one-even though we're a Christian family! I'm not under the illusion that being Christian automatically makes people kind and tolerant. I wish I could say differently.

Man, my posts are too long! (But, see my sig...)

[DebraBaker]

There is the image of the dorky homeschooler.

I have seen this. Again, it seems to be an uberreligious conservative thing. Generally, pale dorky oddly dressed kids. You may see the kid carrying a Bible that looks, well, too large for him.

They think they're smarter than other people because they can repeat facts. (like the square root of 64 is 8 but they don't know the cubed root of 8, for example.)

I think it's the uberreligious thing.

I had homeschooled in the past and had been judged by these folk. I think I'd be ok with hip unschoolers but the religionists dominated our local group.

DB

[3momkmb]

Originally Posted by momofcutie

I hope you don't mind my asking, but does Maddie (?) have Asperger's? Re: the Harry Potter thing. My son's thing has been Bionicles for awhile now-he seems to be moving toward little Lego creations.

I don't mind at all! Maddie has autism, but I was talking about Kelsey Most days I don't' mind the HP obsession, it's opened the door to lots of other interesting subjects (Arthurian legend, Greek mythology, alchemy, Dan Radcliffe ) but it does get a bit tiring sometimes. Maddie is into W.I.T.C.H right now, which is tiring and boring

Originally Posted by momofcutie

One of the reasons I want to homeschool is that I'd like to get away from the "what's wrong with Jacob and how to fix it" approach that the special ed system takes with kids with differences. I mean, I want to know what we're dealing with and want to address it in a helpful way to him. BUT, so far my son doesn't know he was in a "special" class. It was just school to him. As he gets older, he would be more aware of that and I think that would affect his self-esteem.

Maddie actually attends school in an autism classroom. The teacher is SO good and has not taken a *fix it* approach. Instead she is focusing on helping Maddie (and the other kids) make it in the world, much like I have
I too worry about it affecting her self esteem, but she's been oblivious so far. I am leaving her in the program because she just LOVES school and because she has so many therapies (which I feel she really does need) that we would be there 4-5 days a week anyway. I do plan on taking her home for middle school though as the program is new there and untested, hopefully they will work with us on the therapies.

Originally Posted by momofcutie

I like what you said about there being a range of types of people in hsing just as in public school-but the difference is that no one cares! That's great! Everyone could use more acceptance.

You bet I love how the kids relate to each other in our group. Not only are they accepting, they actually support and help the other kids with their weaker areas. It's SO cool!

[DebraBaker]

Jen,

I am facinated by the not "fix it" philosophy. I think its great when a teacher respects the individual gifts and qurks of students and tries to think of them as individuals with something to offer society.

I don't have any autistic children but I did wonder if one of my sons was Aspegers because he was so obcessed with Star Wars as a preschooler. He could act out an entire movie in my living room, knew all the lines, and all the movements.

DB

[warriorprincess]

way too many obscure science fiction book references in casual conversation

This is my entire family.

[flyingspaghettimama]

Originally Posted by warriorprincess

This is my entire family.

Ah, but can you have an entire conversation in Klingon?

[DebraBaker]

K'Plah!!!

=/\=

[3momkmb]

Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama

Ah, but can you have an entire conversation in Klingon?

No, but DD can write in gibberish (alchemical language).

[momofcutie]

Originally Posted by 3momkmb

I don't mind at all! Maddie has autism, but I was talking about Kelsey

[Brigianna]

Could one of y'all provide a working definition of "uberreligious" so that I know whether or not I am one?

[Brigianna]

Also, completely and totally off topic, but I wanted to respond to this:

Also, remember that some religious families are more concerned than others with "modest" clothing, especially for girls, and so they may appear this way to you even if they attended traditional school.

I have never heard of a religous group being more concerned with modesty *especially* for girls (I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I've never heard of them). My own faith and every one that I'm familiar with supports modesty for both sexes, but it stands out more for girls/women, because modest dress is mainstream fashion for boys/men, so they blend in more.

[hsmamato2]

Originally Posted by AbigailsMomSarah

My daughter is 3 and my son is 15 months old. My 3 year old attend a parent co-op play school 2 mornings a week from 9:00-11:30 and she loves it! I love working in her classroom and serving on the parent board and being a part of her school experience. It is all play based and very developmental...If she could stay there through Jr High I would be in heaven, but it is just for 3-5 year olds.

So while it is still a bit off, I have been tossing the idea of HS'ing around. I was a pre-K teacher prior to having kids, I love the idea of following my childs lead and making learning exciting, and I don't like the idea of the wasted time in schools, standardized tests etc.

If she were to go to public school, she would go to a school less than a block from our house, which is an excellent school and very sought after (probably because of the good test scores, which I don't really care about). I just hate the idea of homework for a 6 year old and lack of music and art and hands on science.

But, here is my hesitation...

when I was in school not so long ago (I'm 26) the home schooled kids I knew (just a handfull, certainly not a large sample) were weird and very dorky. I feel horrible saying that, and please know I am not calling anyones child weird or dorky! I just can't get that images out of my head and when I think of homeschooling my kids, I worry about that. When I was in Jr high and HS you could tell the kids at church who were HS'ed and I remember thinking "I won't ever do that to my kid" and now, here I am, thinking about doing that to my kid!

Is this because I lived in an area where homeschooling was not done by many people, or because it was just a while ago, or was my sample of homeschool just very small.

I know that obviously, not all homeschooled kids are weird, and that fitting in is certainly not the most importnant thing in life but I wonder if anyone else had to get past a bias like this before deciding to HS their kids?

I sort of felt the same way,knew a hs family growing up, they were always "different" though very likable...
Now I started when 1st ds was 3, and I WAS worried about that! So i joined my nearest group, and wnet to every meeting, and looked at life from a grownup perspective, realized that there are" different" people everywhere, in every setting(Guess what,we fit into that definition now!)
and saw that our kids will turn out how we raise them. Whether that's mainstream,and in sync with the everage family,or like a lot of Mothering subscribers do!

[callmemama]

I thought I should post that ds' highwater jeans wore through at the knees and I remembered I had bought him jeans on sale for next winter. They're in the wash now, but alas, we'll have to roll up the legs! But the rest of his pants for next year are way cool.

[nlkeple]

I had to get past a HUGE Bias. I had never meet a homeschooled kid until I moved to Orlando for College, I was working in an accounting office and there was a girls there she was 17 and totally naive about EVERYTHING. I was a good kid (well I was 19 not actually a kid) I went to school, worked hard and yet this girl was forbidden by her parents from talking to me about anything other than work. Now that I am older (well I'm 25) and I have kids of my own I realize, that her parents were not homeschooling for the same reasons I am going to homeschool my girls. Her parents were not concerned with appropriate education nor were they concerned with her appropraite development. They were only interested in controlling her completely and molding her into exactly what they wanted her to be. It has been my experience that most homeschool parents are not like that. I had to gety over that before I could feel comfortable with my choice to homeschool.

[2tadpoles]

Originally Posted by Brigianna

I hate to bring this up again, but y'all are saying "religious" like it's a bad thing or code for mouth-breathing flat-earther. We are what some would call "ultra-religious" homeschoolers and are pretty well adjusted (well maybe I'm not, but the rest of my family is).

You very well may be! Please don't take it personally.

My own experience with religious homeschoolers has been mostly unpleasant, but not completely. I've been chummy with a handful of families who homeschool for religious reasons and are still able to tolerate non-religious people. On the other hand, many of the religious HSers I've met have been serious fundamentalists. I can't relate to them and they can't tolerate me.

Years ago, I was speaking to another HS mom about the "Jump Start" series of educational CD-ROMs. She told me she thought the series included "too much of the occult."

I had a HS grandfather stalk me at a local HS swim day when he started running his mouth about the evils of "secular people" and I spoke up and informed him that he was among some. He followed me around and interrogated me about my religious beliefs until the swim was over.

I began a friendship with another woman who was a lot of fun and her kids got along great with mine.... then her husband learned I wasn't a Christian and forbid her to speak to me again. So I had to explain to my children that their new friends wouldn't be playing with them again because we weren't the right religion. That was their first experience with prejudice.

These are just a few examples.

So do you think that peer influence is usually a good thing?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to respond.

I don't think that peer influence is usually a good thing, but neither do I think it's usually a bad thing. Even bad influences on our children can have a positive effect; they can make our children think about the difference between right and wrong. I think that good parenting plays a huge part in how our kids handle societal pressures. That is, I think that the more we talk to our kids and listen to them in return, and lead by example, the more they will appreciate our values. I don't necessarily think that sheltering them completely from other types of people is the answer.

Personally, I have a problem with any group of people, religous or not, who isolates their offspring from the rest of the world. I, too, am raising children who I expect to think for themselves and not just follow the herd.... whether the herd be peers or family.