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Vitamin K Injection?  

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
What's everyone going to do about the Vitamin K injection for newborns? I know I'm going to refuse the eyedrops but I'm not sure about the Vit. K. It's supposed to help w/ clotting in case the baby hemmorages. My midwife says she knew someone who's babe died of internal hemorage that could have been prevented w/ Vit. K.
It sounds like an unnessesary intervention but I'm not so sure.....any thoughts?
post #2 of 23
For me I'm not inclined to do it unless I see some reason. For example, my first dd was born following a looooong, rough (on both of us) pushing stage and had a nasty hematoma on her head. I opted for the vit K shot b/c she was already bleeding so it seemed prudent at the time. With my 2nd birth, everything went fine and I had no reason to suspect internal bleeding so I skipped it.
post #3 of 23
We are declining it since there is alot of Vit K in colostrum and I will be nursing exclusively. Also, with a girl we won't have to worry about clotting probs that might come about from circ'ing the baby. But we had already researched that and found that their clotting ability starts around age 8 days which is when God had originally said for boys to be circ'd anyway. So, if we had been having a boy AGAIN, we would have waited until at least day 8 to do it anyway.
post #4 of 23
We declined it for our DDs-based on the reasons stated above however one of the women I recently doula'ed for gave it to her newborn orally. Just a thought if you don't want your little one stuck.

MS
post #5 of 23
No Vitamin K here. My research on it shows that about the same amount of kids get leukemia from too much vitamin k as do have hemorraging issues. I don't see it really being a good thing or preventative.

Here's some links:
http://www.birthingnaturally.net/barp/vitk.html
http://www.babyreference.com/VitaminKinjectORnot.htm
http://www.womens-health.co.uk/vitk.asp

Mandy
post #6 of 23
We did not do this for our first two, but the pediatrician's office we use has really put its foot down on this one. We did compromise and do it with #3 and probably will with this one, too. I still am gonna check those links! (((((HUGS))))) sandi
post #7 of 23
Synthetic vitamin K injection has been associated with an increased risk of leukemia and I will not be getting it for this baby. We refused it for the last one and will do the same with this one. It's not a popular decision, but I feel pretty strongly about it.

If God wanted us to have additional Vitamin K at birth I think He would have caused our bodies to produce it. Most of the kids that do hemorrage have a pre-existing condition that predisposes them to hemorraging. Most kids, even those with difficult births will not develop excessive bleeding. As a PP mentioned, there is Vitamin K in colostrum and you can boost the amount by supplementing with alfalfa and other herbs prior to birth.

JMHO, I wish you well as you make your personal decision on this!

OOps!!!! I'm sorry, I didn't realize that this wasn't my DDC!
post #8 of 23
My DH spent hours last night wading through studies on this (he works in the medical field, so he can read them and understand them better than me!) and I think he decided we are going to do it orally. Apparently, though, there isn't a good oral supplement available in the US -- there's something about needing fats and bile in order for the baby to synthesize it orally -- but there is a good one that they use in Europe, so I'm not sure exactly how we're going to get ahold of that -- running out of time here. Also, his research led him to think that you can't just supplement orally once, but you have to do it weekly until 12 weeks, or another schedule he found was birth, 7 days, and 28 days. So we're still working on figuring it out.

Mary
post #9 of 23
We are refusing the eye anaphylaxis, because I tested negative for chlamydia and gonorrhea, nor are we allowing her to have the Hep B vaccine, but we did decide to go ahead with the Vit K shot, because it can help prevent a very nasty and potentially life-threatening condition. Also, the warnings and issues with it are tied primarily to intravenous injection and it's given intramuscularly at our birth center.

Also, the shot they use there contains no heavy metals.

We debated whether to go with oral but it's been shown not to be as effective (there's debate on that though -- up to you). At first I agreed with the notion that thousands of babes are born and have been born without needing Vit K immediately for years and years, but even with a good diet, there's crap that gets into our system and limits vitamin absorption, etc. I can see how babes nowadays might be born deficient in something even in such a country where mothers are given prenatals, and have "healthy" diets.

After a lot of thought and research and discussion with our ped, we decided to go with the Vit K shot. The deciding factor was when we discovered (despite what a few websites have listed) the chances of the baby having a Vit K deficiency-related problem are greater than the chances of her having a complication from the shot.

If you want to use Vit K but it's the delivery system (shot) you have issue with, you can go with the oral version. Here's the one we would have used, if we'd decided to go with oral: http://www.bioticsresearch.com/Products/BioK.htm

It requires you taking it prior to birth, then it being given to the baby in intervals following birth. It's best if you're going to give birth in a facility, if you have the ped authorize the prescription for the oral (instead of ordering it yourself or getting a chiropractor, or even your midwife, etc., to do so). It's pretty standard for hospitals to have a sheet for each child that includes a list of instructions from the pediatrician regarding that child's treatment.

If you have the oral version on that sheet, it will help you a lot in terms of the application going smoothly and not having to worry about some nurse "accidentally" giving your child the shot version.

For what it's worth, I've read that breastfed babies are actually MORE at risk for the hemorrhaging complications than formula fed, since breast milk contains so little Vitamin K, unless the mother really bulks up on food sources and/or supplements and even then, it's diluted to such an extent that it's far better to give to the baby directly orally after birth than to rely on breast milk as its main source.

Since I plan to EBF, we're going with the Vit K shot. But it's totally up to you and what you feel is best for your child. Don't let anyone talk you in or out of anything. Do the research and talk to your pediatrician (even if you disagree, it's good to get his/her take on it) and decide for yourself.

Good luck.
post #10 of 23
Thread Starter 
I heard that even though Breastmilk doesn't have much vitamin k in it, Colostrum is chock full of it, so as long as the babe gets colostrum he should be o.k. I also read (just in the past few days of researching) that the Vit K shot can lead to an 80 % (!) increased risk of childhood leukemia. Can that be right? It sounds a bit crazy.
post #11 of 23

Long reply -- sorry -- but it's a complicated topic & deserves lengthy discussion :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enudely
I heard that even though Breastmilk doesn't have much vitamin k in it, Colostrum is chock full of it, so as long as the babe gets colostrum he should be o.k. I also read (just in the past few days of researching) that the Vit K shot can lead to an 80 % (!) increased risk of childhood leukemia. Can that be right? It sounds a bit crazy.
The problem as I understand it, is that the baby needs more Vitamin K in its stores than what it gets from colostrum or breastmilk in order to adequately prevent the hemorrhaging. And truthfully, the amount of Vit K typically found in colostrum is only minutely more than the amount typically found in breastmilk, according to several studies I've read (here's one older article from Midwifery Today, for example: http://www.naturalchildbirth.org/nat...feeding15.htm). Matter of fact, some would argue there is more in BM later as it is contained primarily in the fat, and the more (quantity) the baby drinks, the better than chances of it getting more Vit K. But some opponents would argue that formula supplemented with Vit K is a better source of the vitamin. That's unacceptable for us, since we plan to exclusively breastfeed. But for some women, this might be an option to the oral supplement form of Vit K.

Here's a good article that talks about both sides: http://www.womens-health.co.uk/vitk.asp

Regardless, to rely on colostrum solely as the lasting Vit K source for your baby could be by some considered chancing it, since the baby needs the Vitamin in its system to last for at least the first month of life (and your milk should come in before a month's time). Which is fine, if that's what you want to do. Please know that I'm really not trying to talk you in or out of anything. Just telling you our process and what we discovered from months of researching.

Some people will argue that the format of the vitamin found in the shot and the oral supplement (as well as baby formula) is poor (and even harmful) for baby, as only true food sources are truly effective. Some admit the same but say that the mother's diet cannot provide enough Vit K to adequately prevent hemorrhaging in the infant, due to other contributing factors such as environment, ingredients, etc., that can inhibit the body's (both mom and infant's) absorption of the vitamin.

Still others will say that the synthetic forms are more effective as they are direct and administered in such a way that they remain in the baby, whereas the "natural" intake is so diluted and lessened that by the time baby gets any of it, the benefits are lost.

Regardless of which you believe or what seems most logical, I cannot reiterate enough the benefits of seeking out professional medical opinions on this one. Consider it practice for what you'll go through when it's time to decide about vaccinations! If your pediatrician dismisses your concerns out of hand, then find a diff ped. Look for someone who will discuss with you the pros and cons of anything you put into your child. Our ped is awesome. She expects parents to make INFORMED decisions and does what she can to help educate us. She doesn't agree with our not getting the eye ointment (she sees it at harmless and I see it as an unnecessary intervention), but she approved our refusal, because she knows it was an informed decision on our part. She agreed that the Hep B vaccine was unnecessary in our case.

As for the 80% you listed...honestly, that figure is pretty damn scary, and way far out there according to my pediatrician and the research she provided us with (which was not funded/provided by the drug companies, btw). She also conferred with the leading childhood oncologist in town since my concerns were primarily about leukemia, before she came back to us with a recommendation (she's selectively pro-vax, btw, and doesn't use anything with mercury/thimerosal in it, etc.). Matter of fact, we're banking the cord blood in case of any probs -- that's how concerned I am about the thought of leukemia. But we're still going with the Vit K shot, because I feel that the contributing factors to leukemia and other childhood cancers are far beyond the scope of one shot and the research just isn't conclusive that there is a definite link between Vit K administered either intramuscularly OR orally, and an increased rate of childhood leukemia in a defined cause and effect relationship. IOW, yes, leukemia and other childhood cancers are still on the rise, I'm sure. But we live in such an incredibly toxic world now, you know? How could they NOT be? But that's just me. Here's some info on leukemia in children: http://www.leukemia-lymphoma.org/all...incidencebyage

Anyway the oncologist reiterated that the chances of the child developing leukemia from the shot were less than the chances of hemorrhaging without it (and yes, we're aware that those chances aren't that great -- but they are great enough for us to decide to get the shot -- again, that's just us), and that many sites who list statistics like that 80% aren't taking into account things like location (living near power lines or chem factories, etc.), diet, chemical exposure, mother's diet while pg, genetics, radiation exposure, etc., all of which can be contributing factors. In other words, the chances of any child developing leukemia are higher now than they were years ago, whether it's been given Vit K or not. Again, we live in a toxic world. Could there be a correlation between Vit K and leukemia? Absolutely! Do we know this for certain? No.

But what we do know is there is a connection between some medications the mother has taken and the development of hemorrhaging in the infant.

For instance, I was on anti-convulsants for many many years prior to TTC, and although I went off my meds nearly a year before we got pg, and haven't been on any anti-convulsants during the pg, still, I fear that my intake of these meds could prove significant (since that's a known contributor to hemorrhaging).

Thing is that there are meds that women take prior to getting pg that could have mild anti-convulsant properties and they not know it! Same with some meds taken during pregnancy.

In my mind it's better to be safe than sorry, IMO. And *for us* that means getting the shot. If you haven't taken any medications at all that could have any contributing factor to your child bleeding, and you feel confident that your child isn't the 1/10k child who could be affected, then don't worry about it. It's a very rare condition -- but the kicker is, it's a horrible one and quite deadly. And preventable.

And in the end, for you and your child, it's up to you -- please talk to some medical professionals about this, since many websites (and non-medical professionals, like me!), though highly informative and well-meaning, can be misleading. Please seek out some professional opinion, since my opinion and the others you'll find on this forum are at best, well-meaning laypersons. Unless there's an oncologist among us I'm unaware of?

Hope that helps!
post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighten
We are refusing the eye anaphylaxis, because I tested negative for chlamydia and gonorrhea, nor are we allowing her to have the Hep B vaccine, but we did decide to go ahead with the Vit K shot, because it can help prevent a very nasty and potentially life-threatening condition. Also, the warnings and issues with it are tied primarily to intramuscular injection and it's given intravenously at our birth center.

I think you got that backward. They used to give it intravenously, at higher doses, and THAT is why may be related to leukemia. The newer dose (lower) both through the dose of the shot, *and* that they give it intramuscularly (lower effective dose), makes it much safer.

Nighten, are you sure you didn't get those reversed? We're putting in our birth plan being explicit about wanting the intramuscular shot. I will try to find the links about this that I found earlier.. perhaps they are buried within some of the links mentioned above. If they really DO do it intravenously, I"ll *really* try to find that information for you.

I don't have a problem with the vitamin K itself, but I'm pissed that it's preserved. There is no mercury in it, but there are a couple other preservatives, and *those* are what made me not want to get it. We have had to fight so hard to refuse both the eye antibiotics and hep b, though, that it just feels like the fight is gone out of me for this one. I better not have GBS, that's all I have to say about that one, because I"m not ready for *that* fight. If vit K did have mercury in it, I would not even consider getting it.

If they had a preservative-free vit K shot I'd have no problems with it in the current lower dose. I agree that it's silly to say that everyone NEEDS something that birth does not provide, but I think the vit K shot helps compensate for the fact that: a) most people clamp the cord too early, even if you ask them NOT TO- at that point, it's hard to have control over what they are doing, and "late clamping until the cord stops pulsing" is really not well defined enough to ensure the baby gets all the good stuff from there, and b) if your child does have some internal bleeding or a syndrome that leads itself to that, there's no way of knowing until they do get extremely ill/die. So it's not the complete and utter uselessness it might be (as opposed to, say, the other two treatments for almost all of the population, unless you're specifically high-risk for something). -j
post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenny-g
I think you got that backward. They used to give it intravenously, at higher doses, and THAT is why may be related to leukemia. The newer dose (lower) both through the dose of the shot, *and* that they give it intramuscularly (lower effective dose), makes it much safer.

Nighten, are you sure you didn't get those reversed? We're putting in our birth plan being explicit about wanting the intramuscular shot. I will try to find the links about this that I found earlier.. perhaps they are buried within some of the links mentioned above. If they really DO do it intravenously, I"ll *really* try to find that information for you.
Yeah I got it backwards. Sorry. I'll edit it.
post #14 of 23
We're not doing it. Declined it with DD because there were no issues that would lead to clotting problems. Even if this is a boy, we won't because we're not circing. So unless there has to be an incision for some medical reason or there is a birth injury that causes bleeding, no Vit K here, either.
post #15 of 23
Oh, boy. I must read those. My WM prefer to do the shot over oral, because the oral is so complicated, they're not sure it works, and babies HATE it. if the shot is different now from what was associated with leukemiua, we might give in to that.... I was all set to decline unless there was birth trauma, but my WM pointed out that most of the time, that's not what the problem is... the problem is some small hole that bleeds internally, and there is no way you would ever know..... ack.

couldnt just one thing be easy?
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosemommy
Oh, boy. I must read those. My WM prefer to do the shot over oral, because the oral is so complicated, they're not sure it works, and babies HATE it. if the shot is different now from what was associated with leukemiua, we might give in to that.... I was all set to decline unless there was birth trauma, but my WM pointed out that most of the time, that's not what the problem is... the problem is some small hole that bleeds internally, and there is no way you would ever know..... ack.

couldnt just one thing be easy?
EASY!?!?!? Well that would just be too... simple and fair .

I want to thank Nighten for taking the time to post in depth about the reserach she did. It takes SO MUCH TIME to do all this freaking research the right way- relying on a random unsubstantiated quote on a website ain't doing it the right way!- and I think it's really great that people, and she in particular, are willing to take the time to share the information.

I have just embarked on convincing my husband that circumcision is Totally Evil (that's my viewpoint, and I feel pretty strongly about it), when his father is not only a pediatrician, but a PRO-circumcision ped. Most of my research time is being swallowed up by that, so it makes it even more nice to be able to reference others' research on here about that and other things. You know, when there are only two weeks left to the due date and maybe I should pack my labor bag now. -j
post #17 of 23
Does anyone know what the preservatives are in the shot?
My youngest son has immune problems, to keep it simple, and this new babe could have the same problems as well and I dont want to be injecting aluminum in my newborn, even if there werent issues I still cant do that to my babe.
Angela
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelaB
Does anyone know what the preservatives are in the shot?
My youngest son has immune problems, to keep it simple, and this new babe could have the same problems as well and I dont want to be injecting aluminum in my newborn, even if there werent issues I still cant do that to my babe.
Angela
I don't think there is aluminum. I"m pretty sure one is a small amount of ethylene glycol in the brand I looked at. You could ask your caregiver in advance for the insert, so you know exactly what kind you are getting- I do not know if different hospitals/people use different brands or not. You can also ask them really specific questions about the immune issues? -j
post #19 of 23
I did a google search and this is the wikipedia link to Ethylene glycol. That doesnt sound good to me. I had in my birth plan that I will not consent to any ointments, shots or tests until I am fully informed and have read the inserts myself. Anyways I will just ask my mw to see the insert next time I have an appointment.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol

editinng to add this article I found that talks about some ingredients as well.
http://proliberty.com/observer/19990710.htm
post #20 of 23
http://tinyurl.com/bs6e8

You can get the oral/herbal Vit K there. The site has loads of info & directions on how to administer it. We didn't get the shot with Ds (11 days old) & we didn't circ (because IMHO, if "god" meant for them to not have foreskin, he wouldn't have created it .)
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