Vitamin K...to shoot or not to shoot

[brandy111803]

Hey everyone,
Dh and I have been contemplating this one hard. We are planning on having a super gentle homebirth and getting the Vit K shot after birth is so counterintuitive to us in this regard. My midwife says she uses a 27 gauge needle and that the babies don't even react to it. My dh is an EMT and when I told him that and asked his thoughts he said "I'll bring one home and poke you and you can tell me what you think!" He said that baby will feel it regardless. Now I know that some ppl think we are being silly, "it's just a small, quick poke" but for someone that doesn't know what "small" "quick" or "poke" is it doesn't seem kind.

So, our midwife is fine w/ whatever we decide....oral or shot or nothing. I have a friend who's dd didn't give anything and she was fine bc it was a real gentle birth. I have heard of ppl giving oral k but my midwife said that the results of that are inconclusive but also said that the shots results are truly that way as well.

Urg. So, my question...I have heard of giving baby "natural vitamin k" and am assuming that just means the oral k. Have any of you had experiences with this type of stuff? Are we just being silly and are we putting our baby at risk just to keep him/her from feeling a "small, quick, poke"?

What are all of your thoughts on this?
Brandy

[CrunchyKat]

I chose NOT to give my dd the Vitamin K shot. The only "test" of any sort (including a hearing test that the hospital pretty much demanded and got furious when we refused) that dd recieved was the PKU. (I ended up having a hospital transfer after attempting a HB/WB).

[KBinSATX]

Originally Posted by brandy111803

Urg. So, my question...I have heard of giving baby "natural vitamin k" and am assuming that just means the oral k.

Isn't colostrum naturally high in Vitamin k?

[pamamidwife]

I would go by not the imagined pain of the shot, but by the true risks/benefits of giving it.

Here's my informed choice agreement on Vit K: http://www.midwifemama.com/Vitamin%20K.pdf

Here is a good article on Vit K: http://www.aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol13No2/vitk.htm

There is some talk about Vit K being linked to a higher incidence of childhood leukemia, but this study has been repeated NUMEROUS times and the findings have never been the same as that one study.

Colostrum does not have Vit K per se - Vit K isn't even a Vitamin, but a by-product of bacteria in gut. Just by babies putting their mouths on our breasts, they start receiving bacteria and thus, start creating their own Vit K. Breastmilk has Vit K, albeit low levels.

[KBinSATX]

Colostrum does not have Vit K per se - Vit K isn't even a Vitamin, but a by-product of bacteria in gut. Just by babies putting their mouths on our breasts, they start receiving bacteria and thus, start creating their own Vit K. Breastmilk has Vit K, albeit low levels.

That's not what I am reading in your informed consent though. Reading your consent I would get the idea that colostrum has more Vit K than breasmilk.

[the_lissa]

Originally Posted by KatKirkwood

I chose NOT to give my dd the Vitamin K shot. The only "test" of any sort (including a hearing test that the hospital pretty much demanded and got furious when we refused) that dd recieved was the PKU. (I ended up having a hospital transfer after attempting a HB/WB).

I think the hearing test in hospitals is ridiculous. My midwives don't offer it until six weeks and told me having it in the hospital is ridiculous because there is sucha high number of "fails" because often newborns have fluid in their ears.

[Shelsi]

I really think you need to sit down and research the pros and cons of the vitamin K shot...not just think about the pain factor. In all honestly most babies I have seen, including my own, hardly notice a shot at all if they are nursing at the time. This also goes along with vaccines. You need to research them fully...not just decide that you're not going to do them because you don't want your kid to cry for 30 seconds. I totally understand how hard it is to see them hurt...heck even dh cries whenever our ds gets shots (selectively done btw). But you need to find out for yourself if that 30 seconds of pain is worth the benefit of whatever is in that needle.

[pamamidwife]

Ah, Katy you are right.

[tracylhl]

We did have the vit. K with my 2 ds's. Mostly b/c it helps w/ blood clotting and we ended up having our boys circ'ed (it makes me sick to even say that, but DH won that arguement somehow!). I decided that in the event that there was excessive bleeding during the circ, I would want them to have the vit. K to help w/ clotting. The baby usually has ample vit. K by 7 days old and this is said to be why, in biblical times, circ'ing was done on the 7th day. With our DD, we knew that we did not plan on having anything happening where she might bleed. There's always a chance, but it wasn't high and we didn't feel the need for the extra medical intrusion. We opted out of it w/ her. The hospital gave us some grief, but too bad. With this time, I plan to opt out. I don't know the gender yet, but even if it's a boy, I've already put my foot down about circ'ing so unless the birth presents something that we were unaware of that could cause high risk of bleeding, we will forgo it. Read up and make the decision that is best for you and your dc. Good luck!

[emdeecee_sierra]

You might look into drinking alfalfa tea- gives you a lot of vit K which you pass to baby in your milk. Also increases your milk. We didn't do the shot with the last two, and won't again for any more DC. Do your research; mine showed it was unnecessary for the most part. GL to you and happy birthing!!

[brandy111803]

Originally Posted by Shelsi

I really think you need to sit down and research the pros and cons of the vitamin K shot...not just think about the pain factor. You need to research them fully...not just decide that you're not going to do them because you don't want your kid to cry for 30 seconds.

I'm not a dope Shelsi. That's why I am asking the question here. I have read articles on Vitamin K see:

http://www.healthychild.com/database...necessary_.htm
http://www.vaccines.bizland.com/vitk-eryth.html
http://www.healthychild.com/database...necessary_.htm
http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/vitktop.html
http://www.babyreference.com/VitaminKinjectORnot.htm
http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/vitk.htm

It's not simply the "30 seconds of pain" factor but goes much more deeply than that for my dh and I. Despite those *feelings* that we have I have posted my question here bc there is no real *conclusive* evidence one way or the other on whether the injection or the oral form is better than the other. I can *read* all day and still find that there are plenty of people that say injection is better bc than you know that it goes straight to the child, the parents won't "forget" to give it, etc. but there are those ppl that say that the child doesn't *need* a mega dose of it unless there has been a more difficult birth or other trauma caused (we aren't circ'ing and don't forsee causing other trauma ourselves...I would be more worried abt that if we were birthing in a hospital) or if there's some type of disease that would cause hemorrage and that babies are most often times fine w/ oral K and breastmilk.

The reason I'm asking my question here is to see what other natural living mamas *feel*...not to have someone act as if I'm being neglectful and ignorant. I appreciate any articles submitted here but I would love to hear what other parents have *done* and why and if they felt that oral K (if they opted for that) was of benefit to their child.

Thanks,
Brandy

[brandy111803]

Sierratahoe,
I might go ahead and get some of that tea. I have read it is helpful in really boosting my K levels. I suppose I could get that mixed w/ raspberry leaf to eh?

So you ended up not giving any K at all? A very trusted and dear friend of mine said her dd didn't either and she wasn't worried about and the baby is perfectly fine. My thought *right now* is that it's just another intervention done bc of a very low statistic and that our baby would be fine. There's always still that little doubt though ya know?

They have some oral drops at Whole Foods here (it's not cheap btw in case anyone else is looking at the oral form) that we could get. I wonder if it would be beneficial for me to take some of that during the few weeks preceeding the birth. I will have to ask my midwife about that....hmm....

I have begun doing more greens and don't mind them so I could keep up on those as well. Did you increase your Vit K in your diet as well?

Thanks!

[Attached Mama]

signed a waiver at the birth center for dd to get it orally not vaccine and ended up with an emergency hsptl birth and she was given the shot because the birth center didnt' have my papers there.

[mommaem]

not sure if anyone here mentioned this or not...you can give oral vit k drops thats what we did and our midwife was the one who gave us that option....i would do your research and than decide. but know there is an alturnative to the shot. with a lot less junk in it(perseritives and other yukky things)
And if you have history in your family of problems with blood clotting the drops might not be a bad choice. t(hats why they give the baby vit k!)
emily

[jrose_lee]

We chose not to do any vit K for our ds. Everything he needed...I was able to give him I will never regret not doing it after reading some scary things about getting the shot. Also, I was just never sure about the oral.

[Phoenix_Rising]

We opted to not do anything "extra" except the PKU, and that was only bc DW insisted on doing it. We (I) did all of our research and it didn't feel right. I mean, for how many years have we all been ok without it? Anyway, FWIW, we did not do the Vit K. Good luck with your decision
-Susannah

[pamamidwife]

If clients have a difficult birth, such as a malpresentation where there is lots of bruising involved, then I might re-evaluate with them after the birth. Or, if you have a son that you'll choose to get circ'd before 7 days after the birth. Or, if you're on seizure meds. Etc., etc.

[mama_at_home]

We didn't do the vitamin K. No regrets at all!

[alegna]

We didn't do the K at all and didn't worry a bit. It makes no sense for newborns to NEED to be injected with anything.

-Angela

[Snowdrift]

Originally Posted by alegna

We didn't do the K at all and didn't worry a bit. It makes no sense for newborns to NEED to be injected with anything.

ITA. Some stuff makes things easier or whatever, but to *need* a chemical injection at birth just doesn't make sense to us. We arent' planning on doing it. We asked our future ped/family practitioner about giving us some in case of a more traumatic birth (our midwives ask that we obtain it if we wish to use it) and he said we shouldn't bother, but in case of a traumatic birth we should just come in within a day or two to get everything checked out.