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Homebirthing and circumcision - Page 2

post #21 of 151
Well, I wish I could say that all midwives ask so that they can teach their patients about circ, but many ask so they can advocate for it.
Many Christian midwives seem to think that it is religiously necessary and are not up on their medical facts on the topic.
Hopefully we can get midwives of all religions to learn about the religious and medical reasons to leave boys the way that God and Nature made them.

If you choose to have a homebirth, you choose to do so for reasons of privacy, increased safety for mother and baby, physical and emotional comfort, among others. I'm not sure I understand how a parent can violate the safety and comfort of the homebirth experience by torturing their brand-new family member for a cosmetic procedure with no medical, hygienic, or social benefits.

It's not your penis, leave it alone.
post #22 of 151
oops...duplicate post
post #23 of 151
I offer all my clients - even those that circ for "religious" reasons info on circ. However, it is NOT my place to question their religious beliefs...especially when I'm not part of their religion. I offer them factual information, but do not downplay their spiritual beliefs. I think that's important, no matter how I feel about circ.
post #24 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thmom
None of them agree with Circ, but they do agree with a parents right to choose so they do thier best to inform clients but some people are just bull headed...
excuse me while i puke! i cannot understand how someone could do that to a baby. yea, i know, if she doesnt do it, someone else will blah blah blah. no excuse IMO

i think a HUGE part of my role as (soon to be) midwife is to be an advocate for babies. i think i would be doing a HUGE disservice to families if i didnt lay out the info for circ. i think once you build up a trusting relationship with a family, you are in a good position to give them this info in an innoffensive way.
post #25 of 151
I would not hire a midwife who would harass clients about their religious beliefs. At the same time, I would not hire a midwife who supported Routine Infant Circ.
post #26 of 151
"I'm not sure I understand how a parent can violate the safety and comfort of the homebirth experience by torturing their brand-new family member for a cosmetic procedure with no medical, hygienic, or social benefits.

It's not your penis, leave it alone." Leosmama

Well said Leosmama!
post #27 of 151
A mw doesn`t need to ever go there at all with a client about religious beliefs. If I was a mw, I would say something like "circumcision defies logic, its purely cosmetic, its excruciating pain for a baby and hurts him for weeks and can make breastfeeding harder." Or, why even discuss it, a mw doesn`t do circs and if somebody wants a religious circ, what the heck does the mw have to do with that? If they don`t already know somebody who will come to the house and do it, then a mw shouldn`t have to find anyone. If it were me, I would probably give out a video that showed one happening, and a good article & say I don`t support it & you`re on your own if you want it done.

Just comparing it to baptism, if a mw`s client is Catholic, do they expect the mw to find a priest? If they don`t already have a church they can get out the phone book & look. The mw can avoid the whole subject if she`s opposed to circ.
post #28 of 151
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I would not hire a midwife who would harass clients about their religious beliefs. At the same time, I would not hire a midwife who supported Routine Infant Circ.
:
post #29 of 151
my midwife did not ask either...probably bcuz she already knew that we wouldn't if the baby was a boy (it was!). My 1st boy was circ'd bcuz we didn't know much about it...we figured, dad is...baby shld be. But when we had our 3rd & 4th baby, we just said that if it's a boy, we would not circ.

Rhonda

mom to DD- Tyler (10), DS- Adam (6), DD- Emma (2.5), DS- Roman (1)
post #30 of 151
My mw did ask during one of our prenatals. She asked to mark it on my records.
post #31 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by liseux
A mw doesn`t need to ever go there at all with a client about religious beliefs. If I was a mw, I would say something like "circumcision defies logic, its purely cosmetic, its excruciating pain for a baby and hurts him for weeks and can make breastfeeding harder." Or, why even discuss it, a mw doesn`t do circs and if somebody wants a religious circ, what the heck does the mw have to do with that? If they don`t already know somebody who will come to the house and do it, then a mw shouldn`t have to find anyone. If it were me, I would probably give out a video that showed one happening, and a good article & say I don`t support it & you`re on your own if you want it done.

Just comparing it to baptism, if a mw`s client is Catholic, do they expect the mw to find a priest? If they don`t already have a church they can get out the phone book & look. The mw can avoid the whole subject if she`s opposed to circ.
Unlike baptism though, circumcision is a medical procedure. I can understand the mw's need to ask about circ because if it is going to be done right away, she needs to talk to the mother about giving the vitamin K shot at birth (or finding another option of getting the vit K for the baby).
post #32 of 151
And there are midwives who perform circimcisions. The midwife I used for my first pregnancy served a large Mennonite population. She said that they all circ. Her logic is that she used pain relief for the baby and waits for it to be effective (as effective as it is...which is not completely I understand.) She'd rather it be done as painlessly as possible than rushed by a doctor who will use no pain relief or inadequate relief. I don't agree with her doing them. She is no longer practicing for completely unrelated reasons.

I am have an appointment with a homebirth midwife in a few weeks. I will ask her if she performs circumcisions. I have decided that I cannot, in good conscious, use the services of someone who performs circumcisions. Let's hope she doesn't!
post #33 of 151
Here midwives aren't allowed to perform circumcisions. Neither are peds. Only OBs because they are surgeons.
post #34 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergreen
Here midwives aren't allowed to perform circumcisions. Neither are peds. Only OBs because they are surgeons.
Really? I thought all peds had some surgical training. The peds residents do the circs at the hospital I work at. I guess it must differ by state but I imagine all peds do some surgical procedured during their residencies.

And I think most of my MWs clients leave their babies intact. I never asked for a number, just basing my guess on discussions we've had about circ in general.

Editing to add duh, I don't know where you are, I assumed you are in america but that was me assuming.
post #35 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaverdi
I would not hire a midwife who would harass clients about their religious beliefs. At the same time, I would not hire a midwife who supported Routine Infant Circ.
there's a vast difference betwen supporting circ and supporting a parent's right to make INFORMED CHOICES. my job is to give clients information and resources, not to be their mother and tell them how to parent.

just to be clear.
post #36 of 151
I wasn't thinking of your post when I wrote my message, but...

I think it's inappropriate for anyone to attempt to persuade parents away from their religious beliefs. So often Jewish parents in NFL circles see these persuasion techniques in the guise of "informed choice" or "medical information."

The responsibility of the child's soul and body rests with the parents. Supporting the parents means not undermining that support with "informed choice."

I have a problem with active conversion techniques of any sort. AND I would not try to disuade or persuade someone WRT any other medical procedure that was affected by their spiritual beliefs, despite what I felt about it.
post #37 of 151
i would never question someone's religious beliefs, but i ask everyone, and give everyone info on it if they arent doing it for rel. reasons. i wont ever just skip it for fear of offending someone. i really think that is an important part of midwifery

nak squirmy toddler
post #38 of 151
My mw asked me at around 20 or so weeks if we planned to circ. (we didnt find out the gender till birth) I told her absolutly not. She said good cause there is no medical reason for it and her sons were not and they had no problems. She did say something (kinds mummbled it actually)right after about how they had a dr who they referred to if it was done. I personally think that they have every right to mention it but I 100% disagree that they have someone they send them to have it done. I disagree cause the way i see it if they know someone who does it then they are saying in a way that it is ok. I can understand the dr that they refer to may use pain releif etc. but it still dosnt make it right.

I dont know what she would have said had i said yes if she would have talked to me about the reasons and stuff i would like to think she would have tried to talk me out of it using medically based knowledge.

If I had said I was doing it for religious reasons depending on what that religon was I would still like to think she would have went over the medical stuff. No it isnt her right to try to change a persons veiw on there religion but still i would like to think she would have wanted to discuss it.
post #39 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaverdi
The responsibility of the child's soul and body rests with the parents. Supporting the parents means not undermining that support with "informed choice."
What on earth does that mean?

So say a hypothetical Jewish couple are happy to have a bris, think that in addition to the spirituality of it, it will be cleaner, easier to care for, keep their son from getting cancer and aids, etc. All the typical misconceptions. But if someone said to them very politely 'hey, none of that is true, and there are alternatives to the bris, maybe read this info and think about it,' and they do change their minds when faced with facts. Would you be opposed to this scenario? Would you say that this couple was undermined because someone presented them with facts so they could make a true informed choice? Does this apply to other situations where religious belief contradicts fact?
post #40 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamamidwife
there's a vast difference betwen supporting circ and supporting a parent's right to make INFORMED CHOICES. my job is to give clients information and resources, not to be their mother and tell them how to parent.
Except for the fact that many of us don't believe it should be the parents' choice at all. Just like girls are protected from circumcision by law (in the US at least, not in all countries).

His body, his choice.
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