not so dear husband and circ-update - Page 2

[trmpetplaya]

Originally Posted by gridley13

"In male babies the foreskin is lightly attached to the penis underneath it, much like the skin on an orange, and comes free over the course of the first few years of life."

This is as far as I got on that site... uh... sorry, but my ds's foreskin is not LIGHTLY attached!!! I certainly do not know HOW strongly it is attached because I have not tried to find out. But it is not lightly. How irritating.

I would agree with the previous posters that you should settle this before actually ttc- let him know for sure how serious you are about it.

:

nak

that's as far as I got too... think more like fingernails to fingers rather that orange peel to orange... holy hotdogbuns (I wanted to say something far far stronger...), if it begins with THAT I can't even imagine what else it says. He needs to prove it's necessary. He also needs to prove why it's better for HIM to make that decision about SOMEONE ELSE'S penis than to let the OWNER OF THE PENIS make the decision when he's older and can have pain meds...

my dh is VERY VERY HAPPY (so am I ) that he has the whole penis. I would never have a child with a sneaky abuser (sorry, but that's what he sounds like in this case at least ) even if he did think he was doing the "right thing".

love and peace.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

There is no way I would ttc until ur dh changes his mind. If u were to get pg and it was a boy and he was still this adament then u would have a situation were he would take the child behind ur back and mutilate him and then u would end up with a divorce anyway. Or at least i would divorce my dh if he did that to my son. To me it is no different than if he sexually abused one of the kids.

Explain to him about the guy who wrote that site how he gets off on watching little boys in pain and will do anything to keep the barbaric practice going.

Make him find a legitamite medical site that is for circ. He will not be able to. Even the AAP (american academy of pediatrics) site is against circ. 80-85% of the worlds population is intact and have NO issues with there foreskin. They live there whole life without trouble.

Like some of the pp's have said since your dh dosnt have a intact penis he is no more a expert on them than u are since u are intact then u actually have more expertise on it that he does.


I have heard many times about how it is his child to and he should have a say I agree on that to a point. There are some things that are just not up for debate. This is a major one. If your dh was for beating the child and locking him in the closet then of course u would be right in stoping it. Or if he wanted to send the child to say military school when he turnes 5 if u didnt want to do that u would stop it. I know I am not very good at putting my thoughts into words.

What it comes down to is it is not yours of ur dh's penis to be cutting on.

Just step back on the ttc until u get this all figured out. I wanted a second child so bad and I wanted a son but if my dh had told me what ur dh did then we wouldnt have our ds and prolly I wouldnt still be married to my dh. I couldnt stay married to someone who would not listen to the facts and who wanted to inflict that kind of pain and damage on my child.

You said that he didnt want to hear the facts that tells me that he is in denial that could very well change. I would just keep at it till u get the issue resolved then go ahead and ttc then.

[phatchristy]

I am with all of the other people...don't ttc until he has changed his mind. And, I have met some of the most stubborn people out there, who upon reading have changed their minds. When you see everything in its entirety it is overwhelmingly obvious to keep a child intact. The thing is, it is painful of a thought for him to think that what was done to him was a violation or it was wrong. It might take a while, but if he is a reasonable person he is going to see it...it might just be to emotionally difficult now and in the immediate future.

[mattemma04]

It is not his choice to make.Or yours.

Circumcised men grow up and learn to deal with what was left. Sadly most often the cycle of abuse continues into the next generation unless the mother prevents it.

Some intact men grow up with inappropriate genital care, and are taught falsehoods about being intact/normal.Often this leads them to want to cut their boys,so the boy can avoid the treatment(stupidity) they we exposed too.

No need to argue just say: no son of mine will have half his penis removed for ANY reason. End of discussion. Sometimes people cling to a stupid idea to the death, and it is really a waste of effort trying to convince them otherwise.

[msumomma]

Originally Posted by kxsiven

Also you might want to read this to understand your husband better;

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

OMG this IS my dh!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for all the support and great info so far. What makes me so sad about this whole situation, is that he just shut right down and is willing to loose our marriage over this. Then he says that I am the one willing to throw away our marraige over this. Ugh!
We are not ttc just yet, my dd is just about 14 months and ideally I was to nurse her at least 2 years and won't ttc before then, I just want to be sure we are on the same page as we both really wanted a boy this time around and I was going to read and use the shettles method to try to up our odds. He says I never had these "crazy" ideas before I started on this site with all of you treehuggers (I didn't find this site until after my dd was about 2 months old and I was looking for bf support). I tell him people change and ideas change and we've been together 8 years and I wasn't supposed to grow intelluctually or spiritually? He also said last night I have ruined his dreams of ever having a son. Ugh.

[pdx.mothernurture]

Nearly half of baby boys in the U.S. are being left intact these days. It's really not unnusual anymore, let alone 'crazy' to leave your son's perfectly normal, healthy penis alone.

I think, in your situation, I would focus on two things:

1.) Stroke your husband's ego. Reassure him. You love him, sex is good, and you enjoy his penis and his sexual skill. Try to minimize the idea of leaving your son intact being a threat to his manhood...

2.) Tell him that circumcision is painful, unnecessary, and carries risk. Don't go into the sexual differences/benefits of a foreskin at this point; keep it simple. Tell him it's not going to be done if it isn't necessary, any more than you would cut part of your daughter's genitals off if it wasn't necessary. A foreskin comes standard; it's the default.

He's the one advocating action, the burden of proof is on HIS shoulders.

Jen

[morning glory]

Thanks for all the support and great info so far. What makes me so sad about this whole situation, is that he just shut right down and is willing to loose our marriage over this. Then he says that I am the one willing to throw away our marraige over this. Ugh!
We are not ttc just yet, my dd is just about 14 months and ideally I was to nurse her at least 2 years and won't ttc before then, I just want to be sure we are on the same page as we both really wanted a boy this time around and I was going to read and use the shettles method to try to up our odds. He says I never had these "crazy" ideas before I started on this site with all of you treehuggers (I didn't find this site until after my dd was about 2 months old and I was looking for bf support). I tell him people change and ideas change and we've been together 8 years and I wasn't supposed to grow intelluctually or spiritually? He also said last night I have ruined his dreams of ever having a son. Ugh.

Oh my gosh that MY DH!!!

Well my Dh is probably not quite that extreme. But I think the dramatics kick in when he doesn't know what to say...when there is no reasonable explanation for what he is arguing. I usually tease him out of it. Like if he had told me I had ruined his dream of having a son I would have told him that maybe his next wife would be willing to let him perform cosmetic surgery on a newborn.

Anyway...My husband and I never discussed the circ issue until I was pregnant. I didn't realize it was even a bad thing to do til I had a baby growing in me...and even then it was just a feeling. I had no "evidence". So my story is not going to be terribly helpful to you except that my husband did ultimaltely "let me have my way" and now admits that its not a big deal that our son's are not circ'd. His argument was always the "medical" one but my point is that minds can change.

Hang in there. And don't let him get away with being a drama queen. If he is so bent on having a son that "looks like him" let him get restored. He is ruining his own dream by not being willing to see logic. Ask him if your son died from circ complications how would he feel?

Casey

[morning glory]

Forgot to add...this link shows complications from circ. (including death)

http://www.circumstitions.com/reasonsnotto.html

Show him the photo of "Galloping Gangrene" and see if thats part of his dream of having a son. If you desparately want a son is this something a sane person would risk happening to that son?

Casey

[Ann-Marita]

Originally Posted by msumomma

He went so far to say that he'd go behind my back after delivery to ask them to circ a son.

I would NOT have another child with this man!

Unless he changed his views, and even then, I'd wait a while to make sure it "took".

Sorry to be so blunt.

[4lilfarmers]

wow, i love how all of you moms are so great at supplying info/links/etc.

i agree with trmpetplaya that if a male decides to circ when they are old enough to make an informed decision-that's fine. my dh was mixed about circ because he is (and even stated the "silly" arguments (in my mind) of looking the same--what penises intact or not look the "same" anyway?!?) we ended up deciding that if our son wants to circ when he is older (informed, medicated, etc) then it is his choice. dh and i were both satisfied with that....

i hope everything works out for you...
kris

[Zamber]

Hi Heather!! I'm sorry to see you in this situation.

Originally Posted by msumomma

What makes me so sad about this whole situation, is that he just shut right down and is willing to loose our marriage over this. Then he says that I am the one willing to throw away our marraige over this.

He brought up the word "divorce", correct? Then it's him that is willing to loose your marriage over this, not you. Please do not let him push the "blame" on you.

Originally Posted by msumomma

He says I never had these "crazy" ideas before I started on this site with all of you treehuggers (I didn't find this site until after my dd was about 2 months old and I was looking for bf support). I tell him people change and ideas change and we've been together 8 years and I wasn't supposed to grow intelluctually or spiritually? He also said last night I have ruined his dreams of ever having a son. Ugh.

Treehuggers? Then I proudly hug trees! My DH is in no way "crunchy", yet he decided along with me to keep our son intact (DH is circ). Before me, he just never really thought about it. He likes that I challenge him to think.

Honestly, I would put the issue on the back burner for now. Let things settle down. If he ever does come around, make sure he is for real. Also, before ttc again I would make sure he is on the same page for everything else. Just give it time to "cook".


If you ever need anything, pm me.

[hummingbear]

The only thing certain is the impermanence of things. Hoping your husband changes his view.

You rock Jen for such a thorough post on Brian's website.

[Jewels333]

Hello Heather,
I am almost in the same situation as far as circumcision goes. First of all, if you decide that you don't want your child circumcised then the doctors by law cannot have it done. Another thing is that circumcision does not have to be done right away. Some people think that it should be done right away because of the right of a UTI w/i the first year. This risk is only 1%, and babies that are circumcised also have a risk.... also there are more risk that come with circumcision....I'm sure you know all this information since you are against circumcision, but there is a website: www.mothersagianstcirc.org. I don't know if you and your husband can agree to allow your child to make the descision.

As far as my situation goes, I am completely against circumcision and my husband completely for it. Infact we got into a huge argument and he said that his mind is made up and he will not hear anymore information about it. He also said something about how there are many things that he feels he has compromised on with me, and this is not one that he will NOT compromise on. For our situation I believe that there are more underlying issues besides circumcision. I believe that he feels that his desires or needs are not being heard. This is our first pregnancy and we do not yet know if it is a boy or a girl. We have decided not to talk about it unless we find out it is a boy. Meanwhile I will let other issues go that are not so important.

I'm sorry that you and your husband are going through this... I don't know if you believe in God, but what I do is just pray. The enemy loves to destroy relationships, particularly a relationship as strong as marriage.

with love, Julia

[paquerette]

Originally Posted by Jewels333

First of all, if you decide that you don't want your child circumcised then the doctors by law cannot have it done.

That's usually true during your hospital stay after delivery, but usually any time after that the father can take the child to have it done without the mother's consent or knowledge, as the OP's husband threatened to do. Probably the only way to stop that would be a court order ordering him not to, and I'm not entirely sure what the consequence would be if he violated that. He'd be in contempt of court and it would be whatever the judge felt like. That's if you can get a judge to issue that order to begin with, which may be more difficult in some parts of the country than others.

[msumomma]

Originally Posted by Zamber

Treehuggers? Then I proudly hug trees! My DH is in no way "crunchy", yet he decided along with me to keep our son intact (DH is circ). Before me, he just never really thought about it. He likes that I challenge him to think.
.

I told him the same thing, I guess I proudly hug trees.

[morning glory]

"In male babies the foreskin is lightly attached to the penis underneath it, much like the skin on an orange, and comes free over the course of the first few years of life."

You mean like my ear is "lightly attached" to my head???

Just reading back through and saw this. I can't even believe a parent would read this and think "yeah, that sounds right"

Casey

[Getz]

I am so sorry! DH was so angry when I told him I couldn't circumcize our son. I offered all the facts but he wasn't interested. Once my mind was made up he knew he couldn't change it and stopped arguing.

Truth is, he rarely sees DS's penis so whether or not the baby is circumcised is of little consequence. (I like to change diapers because I am so obsessed with cloth)

I have no good advice for you because in a battle of wills I always win. And my DH knew if he had DS circed w/out my permission the hell to pay would be great. I also told DH that I was concerned that he could so easily allow our son to be put through so much pain (especially when DH cried during DS heel sticks)

I would ask him to watch a circumcision video, maybe the Penn & Teller show as well. I would ask him to look at all the facts of circumcision and then make an argument as to why it should be done, instead of why it should not. If he says "I want him to look like me" ask him how often he compared penises w/ his father, my guess is never.

I never expected my DH to become anti-circ, but I expected him to "give in" and no longer demand it be done to our son. I hope your DH comes around.

[Nathan1097]

Originally Posted by msumomma

OMG this IS my dh!!!!!!!!!
He also said last night I have ruined his dreams of ever having a son. Ugh.

Gosh... I've had dreams about my son(s) being circumcised and they were nightmares where I couldn't get to them while it was happening. What kind of dreams is your husband having about circ'ing his son?!?!

[morning glory]

Truth is, he rarely sees DS's penis so whether or not the baby is circumcised is of little consequence. (I like to change diapers because I am so obsessed with cloth)

I have no good advice for you because in a battle of wills I always win. And my DH knew if he had DS circed w/out my permission the hell to pay would be great. I also told DH that I was concerned that he could so easily allow our son to be put through so much pain (especially when DH cried during DS heel sticks)

Actually...I think thats great advice. Most men really don't change that many diapers...so what does he want? The satisfaction of knowing it was done? And ask him how he feels about the pain aspect...I'm sure he is thinking "I don't remember the pain from when I was circ'd"...but is that really any excuse to put your son through it? Does "not remembering" make it okay?

Casey

[trmpetplaya]

nak

ITA with showing your dh the pic of gangrene and mention that while HE was obv one of the lucky ones who didn't die or have to live his life as a girl because of his circ, his son may NOT be so lucky and is he really willing to risk death or having a shemale (I have no problems with adults/teens who really are the other gender. I have friends who were born in the wrong body, but this would be HIS FAULT and your son may really be a boy and may not get that chance if circ'd - not probable, but it DOES happen) or confusion of gender right off the bat for his son?

By mentioning that HE was lucky, maybe he'll stop taking it personally. His mother didn't know any better either and I would bring that up as well. It's what was done, but when we know better we do better and there's no reason to perpetuate the cycle of violence just because his parents didn't have access to the medical data that we have access to now.

Just let him know that you're really not attacking him, his manhood, or his parents.

Besides YOU'RE the one who'll have to deal with having an open wound in a diaper (can we say - asking for infection?).

love and peace.