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Type of Childbirth's Effect on Civilization and Violence  

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I'd love to hear a discussion about this, fellow Mamas.

(I don't want to get into the zone of having people who needed drugs for one reason or another in childbirth to feel guilty, get flamed, etc.)

This topic is so intriguing! I can't believe it's not at the forefront of our culture in the U.S. today. (Well, actually, I can : )

Any thoughts or input out there?

Here's the quote from the Mothering site by Michel Odent:

Since the 1970s we learnt that obstetric medications may also have long term side effects. Visit our data base www.birthworks.org/primalhealth and click, for example, on the key word 'drug addiction'. You'll find a series of studies suggesting that when the mother has used certain drugs when in labor, her child is - statistically speaking - more at risk than others to become drug addicted later on in life. It is probably not by chance that, in the US, the age of 'twilight sleep' was followed by the 'drug culture' generation. Furthermore we learnt recently that the complex cocktail of hormones released by laboring women is a cocktail of 'love hormones'. All pharmacological substitutes block the release of the natural hormones and don't have the same behavioral effects: they are not hormones of love. So the questions must be raised in terms of civilization.
post #2 of 11
Thread Starter 
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Okay, I'll try once more, the just read Michel Odent's stuff on it!
post #4 of 11
I'm reading "The American Way of Birth" by Jessica Mitford. Part of it includes letters written to The Ladies Home Journal in the 50's by nurses commenting on the horrors of twilight-sleep. The babies would be pulled out of the raving mothers' bodies and often not wake up for several hours and would remain sleepy for days.
post #5 of 11
i truly feel there is a link between women aboring with drugs and some troubles with society- i can not access your link somehow.
i do feel by women NOT going thru labor drug free they take away their own power? does that make sense? i had one highly medicated birth and one drug free...
i am not making sense but think of thjis often- i will gather my thoughts and quit nursing and post in a bit!
post #6 of 11
Ok- here is what I feel in my heart.
I feel that birthing with drugs( which I have done) messes up birth.
I think that while you sit their for hours - just sitting- not feeling a thing- and then- wow- someone else tells you it is time to push- so you do- but you can't really tell what you are supposed to be doing-so they have to push on your stomach and they push your husband away because he is- in the way for this....and they cut at your skin-
then a baby is born- and they fling it on you for a minute or few seconds- before it is wisked away- and then they give it back to you- and a bunch of folks who have not nursed a baby try to tell you how....
Then they take it- they take it away- and you sit- and you wonder= why if I just waited my whole life to have this baby- and they think there is something wrong with me for wanting to be with it- and what in the hell just happened here.
It is like since you were not doing anything to get the baby out- your mind and body are not in synch.
And I think that it affects the way we mother.
I think that this is a reason that Babywise can have such an impact on mothering- and why mothers are so unattached to their children.
and I think the way we mother affects the way our children behave.
So I bascially think that it starts a trend that is not healthy.
post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilie
Ok- here is what I feel in my heart.
I feel that birthing with drugs( which I have done) messes up birth.
I think that while you sit their for hours - just sitting- not feeling a thing- and then- wow- someone else tells you it is time to push- so you do- but you can't really tell what you are supposed to be doing-so they have to push on your stomach and they push your husband away because he is- in the way for this....and they cut at your skin-
then a baby is born- and they fling it on you for a minute or few seconds- before it is wisked away- and then they give it back to you- and a bunch of folks who have not nursed a baby try to tell you how....
Then they take it- they take it away- and you sit- and you wonder= why if I just waited my whole life to have this baby- and they think there is something wrong with me for wanting to be with it- and what in the hell just happened here.
It is like since you were not doing anything to get the baby out- your mind and body are not in synch.
And I think that it affects the way we mother.
I think that this is a reason that Babywise can have such an impact on mothering- and why mothers are so unattached to their children.
and I think the way we mother affects the way our children behave.
So I bascially think that it starts a trend that is not healthy.
such a well written description! After I gave birth to ds I could not even put him in the co-sleeper we had planned on him sleeping in. I felt the most physical, urgent need to keep him right by me, on me, nursing, etc. Having felt this, I never can comprehend how many of the women I know send their babies to the nursery for almost their entire hospital stay, only having them brought to them for feedings (if BF) and to see visitors. I feel like it is a result of the birth experience they had- drugged, feeling exhausted from being starved during labor and then 2 or 3 hours of pushing flat on their back or recovery from a C-section, the staff getting all up in the mother's and family's personal space, etc.

My mother had an epidural and morphine when she was in labor with me, with my sister her labor was so fast that there was no time for pain meds. She has always been much more attached to and protective of my sister. My sister has also always been much more attached to her. I've dealt with depression, whereas she has not.
I think this is a very interesting issue that is not often thought about. Great thread!
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 

Barbara Bush: We Need to Talk About Your Son

nak

thank you both for chiming in. you have both said really important things.

i also suffered with depression and my mother was completely asleep for my birth. i was pulled out with forceps while she lay there unconscious, and she did not see me, nor did she know she'd had a daughter, until the next morning. my dad said he saw me first, through a little window, and he yelled at the nurse because she coughed in my face!

suffering with depression takes away our energy to live out our destinies and our joy. we may work our way to it-as i have- but i would have preferred to "hit the ground running" with my joy, not waiting thirty odd years to wrestle it back to me.

here's my question. can birth and parenting end wars, consumerism, greed, insecurity? absolutely.

barbara bush: we need to talk about your son.
post #9 of 11
LOL!!! Yes- we do need to talk to her! I love it!
Yes- I believe that parenting and mothering itself can change this world- first by changing the children- then the community- on up.
I do believe.
Thanks for bringing up the discussion.
post #10 of 11
Try this link https://secure.serve.com/birthworks/primalhealth/ I love this site, will post later!
post #11 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by provocativa
Try this link https://secure.serve.com/birthworks/primalhealth/ I love this site, will post later!
Great! Thanks for the link to Michel Odent's Birthworks International! I'll have to wander through it when ds is less needy! Can't wait!
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