NT April - Page 3

[mamajessica]

Bearsmama,
I think that a lot of NT can be incorporated into veggie life (I do it, but am trying to branch out into meat)
I started with making sour dough, yogurt, kefir, sprouting beans, then soaking grains. Get the book and keep up with this thread, you will learn so much from these wise and amazing mamas!
Also consider Wild Fermentation, it's really good

[Bearsmama]

mamajessica-Thank you~I'll keep up, and check out the book.

[toraji]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

toraji,

I have a bad case of Online Dramatitis. Do you think it's related to my B deficiencies?

Amanda

Eat more beef!

[jessicaSAR]

So the range of meat consumption is somewhere between 1 egg and 4 eggs/ 2lbs meat a day. I suppose it does vary between individuals and seasons. I did find that when I started NT I had been craving meat for six months or more and I wanted alot more than I want now. It is probably a good sign that some of those cravings have diminished, although I am still eating some sort of meat every day, as well as eggs most days. I am still a bit uncomfortable with the luxury of so much meat. Somewhere in my little liberal guilt ridden brain it seems scandalous to go through 52 chickens a year just for my little family of four (and if you count the raw meat consumed by my two GSDs it is really scandalous!!). But, I can't seem to come to a conclusion about what amount would constitute ethical consumption (plus, do I get some sort of credit for 16 years of vegetarianism? )

[mountain mom]

Interesting meat consumption talk!

We are no where close to the meat consumption of 2 lbs a day. We could eat it, but that would blow our budget!

We consume many many eggs. Probably somewhere between 2 - 3 dozen a week for 2 adults and 1 child.

But actual meat dishes. Hmmm, I would say we have maybe 3 -4 dishes a week that actually contain meat. The remainder are bone broth with legumes and sprouted grains.

I find that if I myself eat heavy amounts of meat it impacts my digestion. I digest beans and grains very well though, I am lucky for that. Although now I would say we have a serving of grains once every couple of weeks. Legumes though we have daily.

Nuts and seeds daily as well.

We still haven't ventured away from chicken and bison as far as meat choices either. We have had turkey but only at Christmas and Thanksgiving.

I have to say though, I really identify with those who struggle with the 'footprint' impact of eating meat. I was veggie for close to 20 years. I am still on the ethical food choice path. I try to make choices that are sustainable when I consume meat or any food for that matter. Choosing local, farmer direct. Using hens and chicken feet to make broth instead of a newly butchered bird. Eating meat that is ethically butchered and raised with respect for the animals' wellness and health. Plus so many other things.

[Panserbjorne]

It's funny-I have no ethical problem with eating meat as long as it comes from a small (preferably local) source. It needs to be ethically raised, organic and traditionally fed (NO GRAINS!) I now have a freezer full (well-for me!) of meat and just need to cook it. I was making meat sauce for my dh the other day and had no issue eating the raw ground beef, but then he yelled at me. Apparently he thinks no raw meat while pregnant too. IT was good though and I could have eaten alot more. Weird. I couldn't think about the meat sauce though. Double weird.

I am shocked by how much meat you were told to eat, Amanda! Was that a therapeutic thing? Like eat this much until we solve these problems, or did your chiro feel that it ws a good amount of consumption for people in general?

Glad to hear oxtail is so good. I'll get on that. Umm, at least I'll try. The thing is freaky. My kids think it's great though and each wanted a turn to hold it!

[Brisen]

Bearsmama, you can go to www.westonaprice.org for info and loads of articles.

[provocativa]

If you're going to eat raw meat while pregnant (and I do) the ground meat is a greater risk of contamination than the tenderloin, although if it's from a small processor, less risk. I love love love carpaccio. We eat 1lb-1.25lb of flesh (meat, poultry, or fish) per day, usually, for dh, dd, and me- basically, dinner contains meat. I wish we could afford more. I have no problem eating unethically produced meats- we don't have the money to eat otherwise. Of course I would prefer not to, but we're just too poor for that, and I have to pay the midwife. For some reason, the smell of beans cooking makes me gag this pg. A freezer is this year's dream, though I'm sure when I save enough for one, the car will break down.

[carnelian]

The meat issue is such a personal one. You can see that from the variety of responses to amount and type. My ND, for example, who is a big meat supporter (as long as it's pastured and organic) advises eating no more than 4-6 oz. at one sitting, saying that more presents a serious strain on the digestive system. I'll ask again, has anyone tried organ/glandular extracts?

[Panserbjorne]

Provocativa-we are in the same financial boat. That's why we just won't be doing much. I am not there yet myself, but we do the pastured organic meat for dh (and kids if they choose to-they generally don't) I buy maybe three pounds of meat a week, a bag of bones, and two dozen eggs. Maybe in the future that will change. I think the bones will change for sure...they're cheap and I can deal with that. I really like the smell. For me (because my main "issue" is toxins) it's the only way I can even think about meat. Dh would eat roadkill though. SOme may argue that that is a natural source I suppose!

Thanks for the ideas about eating raw meat-didnt' really think of it that way. I just hoped that since it was organic and pastured and frozen for a couple of weeks it woud be fine. But it was ground, nevertheless. I guess I'll have to find a better idea.

[toraji]

Originally Posted by carnelian

I'll ask again, has anyone tried organ/glandular extracts?

I haven't, but know some people on another list that have. I'll ask what their experience with them was.

I do remember that if you eat things that are whole, like herring, then you will by default get all the glandulars/organs. You can also use the whole dried tiny fish from the Asian markets for soup stocks etc, or eat caviar.

I met one person on that same list who was really into the Aajonus (Primal Diet) who recommended balut. It is basically a chicken embryo (a fertile egg incubated for a few days) which she really wanted for the organs, glandulars, and neonatal tissue (I think that's what she said). She would put it into a smoothie.

Trying not to offend anyone who thinks balut is good eatin' (it is apparently sold in some Asian markets), but I nearly fainted the one time I cracked open an egg and found a formed chick instead. My brother, smarta$$ that he is, said "Did you eat it? It probably would have been the freshest chicken you'd ever eat. Like chicken veal."

[provocativa]

When they make ground meat, it just has a greater risk of contamination from fecal matter (among other things) in the processing. Hand processed is much less of a risk. If you trust your processor, don't worry about it. Tenderloins are delivered with a silver screen (tendonish) still secure around the meat, and are cleaned on-site usually. I have some frozen to eat raw that dh brought from work. I would have no problem eating the local hemp-fed ground beef my husband gets at work raw. But seriously, a guy I know cut off the top part of his finger in the meat grinder, and the store still sold the meat. Non store processed is even worse, is the underpaid guy at the plant going to notice every punctured intestine? NO. Oooh but if you like raw ground beef, learn to make steak tartare. Raw beef, raw eggs french style. My father loves it.

[steffanie3]

The freeze dried organs sound great to me. I have some freeze dried liver as a treat for our dog, I keep thinking it would be good for us to find something like that. I am sure eating hers would not be a good thing. Anyway, I could do six capsules a day of it when I needed to. It would be cheaper to eat the raw liver, I am just not there yet.

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by Yooper

3. Again, asked before but am still undecided.....if you could not get raw dairy, would you still eat dairy (assuming you can get organic)?

Non pasturized is illegal in Ohio, where I live.
I've been getting organic, pasturized, nonhomogenized milk, but Ive decided to stop, and use rice milk for cooking, and almond milk for coffee and cereal, and some baking.
Butter, I'm torn- I get Amish butter, grass fed but not certified organic. I did find margarine with no hydrogenated oil, though. Not sure which to go with here.
Cheese, yeah. It'll be a long time before I can get dp to go without cheese.

4. I have been working on my sourdough expertise. I finally made a couple of loaves that are edible. They are still pretty flat and VERY dense but at least they are not suitable for using as pavers liek the other ones I have made are. Since the dough is rising overnight, is that grain considered "soaked"?

One site I read, said that too much flour is generally the reason for brick-bread. She said its better to use too little than too much. I was making brick-bread, but now, I err on the side of too little, and my bread comes out. I'm trying to get it right too!
http://www.sourdoughhome.com/bakingintro3.html it says it here. There's some good advice on the site (though I ignored the advice that beginners shouldn't try sourdough starter from scratch lol)

6. What is the deal with sour cream? It is one of the things I loved to eat the most before I went vegan. But I do not see it discussed or used in the NT book. Is there a reason?

I don't know. But I use plain yogurt, that's been drained a bit, in place of sour cream. It tastes right to me.

8. Why CLO? I keep seeing it discussed here. Why do you use it?

I use clo because ds has cavities, and I read that it could help. I figured it couldn't hurt. Plus, ds loves it now!

[Yooper]

Well, after moaning about not being able to get non-homogenized milk, my co-op started carrying it this week! So I can get organic, non-homo. But it is of course still pastauraized..... So what do I do with the cream? Any ideas? Half gal costs $4. Is that a lot?

My sourdough is a brick but I am pretty sure it is a not-enough-flour problem. It sorts of melts in the pan then does not rise enough. It is very wet as that is what I heard to try. Also, I use home ground flour and I think it is hard to rise. However, edible is step in the right direction so I am happy

[Brookesmom]

I forgot to reply yesterday (DD has a cold with 101.7 degree fever- never got that back when she was nursing!).

Yes, I have an adrenal support supplement with adrenals that my chiropractor gave me. She said my adrenals were shot, LOL. This was when I was 8 months pregnant. It's been too hard to get to the chiro the past 1 1/2 months so I haven't gotten a chance to see if I've had any improvement, but I hope to go back soon for weekly maintenance. Oh, it is called Nutriwest DSF Formula and has C and B vitamins and Pathothenic acid, mag, zinc and chromium with the adrenal, thymus, spleen etc. Your source sounds really great though. Maybe I'll have to look into in when I'm out...

oops, baby is up! Kelly

Originally Posted by carnelian

The meat issue is such a personal one. You can see that from the variety of responses to amount and type. My ND, for example, who is a big meat supporter (as long as it's pastured and organic) advises eating no more than 4-6 oz. at one sitting, saying that more presents a serious strain on the digestive system. I'll ask again, has anyone tried organ/glandular extracts?

[Brookesmom]

Well, I only ate a bit of chicken and fish for over 10 years and hardly any eggs either for that matter B.K. (before kids). I think I might faint even now if that happened to me.

Originally Posted by toraji

Trying not to offend anyone who thinks balut is good eatin' (it is apparently sold in some Asian markets), but I nearly fainted the one time I cracked open an egg and found a formed chick instead. My brother, smarta$$ that he is, said "Did you eat it? It probably would have been the freshest chicken you'd ever eat. Like chicken veal."

[yitlan]

Originally Posted by toraji

Trying not to offend anyone who thinks balut is good eatin'

I lived in the Philippines as a child and am a food adventurist. Yet, I still haven't managed to eat balut. I'd love to hear of anyone's balut adventures, though!

[gardenmommy]

On eating raw meat: generally speaking, non-ground meats (steaks, roast, tenderloins, etc.) are sterile inside. When you prick them, cut them up for marinating or cooking, etc., you open up pathways for bacteria to move from the surface of the meat to the interior of the meat. This is why ground meats have a higher risk of contamination. There is no "interior" in ground meat; the outside (where the bacteria reside) has been thoroughly mixed into the inside (that is considered sterile until sliced, poked, pricked, or whatever).

I am very curious as to how you got your sourdough starter to flourish. I am an abject failure in this area. I can bake using commercial yeast, but can't get a starter to survive.

Gale Force: I could eat that much beef! I think all day about having a big meal with meat in it for supper. Generally, I eat lots of fruits and veg. during the day, but for supper, man! I can pack it away! Roasts, hamburger, chili, lamb chops... I'm getting really hungry. Of course, we're not eating many grains, so my body really wants that dense protein to fill me up. If I don't eat meat, I am starving, and crave sweets.

I have a freezer full of pastured beef right now. We eat beef probably 5 nights out of 7. Sometimes, if there are leftovers, I'll snack on it throughout the day, as the urge hits me.

I think how much you should eat depends entirely on what your body needs. If you are hungry for it, and can afford it, by all means eat it! If it's not what you want, don't eat it. Same with dairy. This assumes, of course, that you have access to good quality, not just the standard grocery store fare.

[Panserbjorne]

Why does steak tartare make it okay? That was what i was eating, basically. It was pastured organic ground beef with a pastured egg and some veggies and spices. That's how dh likes the meat in his sauces. Does "actual" steak tartare have something like vinegar in it or something?