Drastic Diet Change related to NT

[rootzdawta]

I'm not really sure if this is the place to put this but . . . I don't really have anyone IRL who would understand.

I'm currently reading Nourishing Traditions and it is really an eye opener. I was vegan for about 5 years and recently added back in eggs and yoghurt. When I first became vegan, it was certainly for health reasons as everything I read seemed to say that the best diet for achieving optimal health was vegetarianism and the pinnacle of good health could be achieved by veganism and the absolute heights of absolutely exceptional health could be achieved by eating raw foods only. I don't know where NT was in those days to balance what I was reading and to some extent I think it was necessary spiritually and developmentally for me to become vegan. Veganism was a part of my rebellion, a part of my "being apart" and I did it up. The first year of veganism involved a lot of processed stuff--I'll admit. But by the time I got married, I was making almost everything from scratch. I was an outspoken, even arrogant vegan looking down on "meat eaters." I felt spiritually elevated because my existence didn't require the blood of animals. Well, for the umpteenth time, my hair has begun thinning and I'm still struggling with gut issues as well as acne. It could be soy which I only eat fermented but I don't know. The whole idea of soaking grains, nuts, seeds is totally revolutionary to me . . . I didn't think if I wasn't doing raw that this was at all necessary. Anyway . . .I guess I'm fighting feelings of deceit--like I was lied to about how healthy and healing a vegan diet is. I'm also feeling like doing NT is so outside of what I'm comfortable with. It seems so hard and like such a committment. It's difficult to commit so wholeheartedly to something again especially after being let down so grandly. LoL . . . these are just my rambling thoughts that maybe belong in a journal somewhere. Someone on another thread said they wished it were simpler to figure out what's the truth when it comes to diet. I do too.

[milk4two]

I can empathize a little bit. I was vegetarian for a little over a year and had many of the same feelings. Looking back that was also the period in my life where I had real health issues. Once I put aside vegetarianism and started eating meat again as well as taking vitamin D I really started feeling better and realized just how poorly I had been feeling.

Nourishing Traditions is a lot of work sometimes and we're not currently following it. But it's not quite as much work as it seems at first and when we did adhere to it I think we were exceptionally healthy. I need to get back to it.

I think the truth about eating meat is somewhere in the middle. I haven't resolved all of that completely.

[newcastlemama]

I am in the same boat as you Rootzdawta...I was vegan (lots raw)and then my best friend started NT...I got curious and even though its against all the raw vegan stuff I read, it makes sense at another level. I love how NT has been done for 1,000s of years...the pictures of the native people's diets vs the peolple who left their traditional diet is convincing too.

Let's go in wholeheartedly together...I am scared too. I even cried when I was reading it (I am also a little sensitive right now). I thought "Please God, let this be true...let this be the end to all the extreme diets with food that you have to become accostomed to and you fall on and off of" I could do NT my entire life. I want so desperately to raise a healthy strong family. Also have PPD and a misscarriage in the past 20 months makes me wonder if my reprodcucing body needs more fat. Plus, I want to be a radiant old woman.

I put on the NT thread I think that my grandmother followed the NT principles (without knowing it) raising her 6 children on a farm (raw milk, pastured cows for beef, organic produce) They have great teeth and are all healthy strong individuals. My grandma is 74 and neve had a weight issue...people have thought she was my mother!!

I am going to the store tomorrow to buy raw milk, cheese, CLO ect...If you would have told me that milk would be on my shopping list this year I would have laughed!!!

I figure I might as well try it for a few months and see how my body responds....my best friend (who had weight issues) has gained no weight with all that whole milk and cheese!!

See you on the NT thread, Jennifer

[toraji]

It's so hard to come to terms with a diet that failed...I very publicly went through it on this board after a lot of food fighting with some vegans who felt healthy on their diet. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=198225

My thoughts have shifted a bit since this thread, but essentially, I was so hurt by my failure to thrive (and my family's failure) on what I thought was the perfect diet.

I still believe that no one diet fits all, and it is up to us to choose the right one for our current needs. HTH, I just wanted to let you know that I totally hear you and understand what you're going through.

[rootzdawta]

No, no one diet fits all, that's true.

I think I will cut out all grains except sprouted grains and all soy even fermented for a few months and see. I don't think I could ever really get with NT all the way . . . being vegan is so much easier for me. LoL . . . I feel like I'm conducting some great experiment with my health. I think I could adapt certain aspects of NT like eating more like my ancestors. I would think that would be failure proof. I just worry so much about ds . . . and is thinning hair, acne and gut problems really to blame on veganism? Maybe it's just the soy . . . Oh, and oh boy do I worry about ds . . . I'm a confused mess . . . sorry.

[HerthElde]

Sprouting your grains will be a great first step. Also, if you don't already use coconut oil, you may want to incorporate that into your diet. The biggest message that I got from NT was about preparing my food in such a way that I receive the maximum amount of nutrients possible. When I do, I feel so much better.

[Panserbjorne]

Rootzdawta~ Maybe WE should do a roll call! Same story here. I was vegan for awhile. I don't think veganism was related to my health problems-I think htey were separate, but doing an NT style diet (SCD with NT principles) for gut healing changed everything. I healed acne, food allergies, gut problems (IBD in the form of celiac disease) and my hair stopped falling out. Now I am 95% raw, use the NT principles and the remaining 5% is animal products. I still can't do dairy, and I utilize eggs alot. Grass fed beef is sneaking back in (it's tough) and I'll occasionally try fish. Butter is a staple. You are not alone. This is a journey and what is right at this moment for your body may not be what's right in ten years. Just be open to not having all the answers, observe and dialogue. You will find your path and you will heal.
Alot of the ladies in the "healing the gut tribe" in health and healing are doing gut healing (and autoimmune disease healing, acne healing, all kinds of stuff) with NT principles. IT may be a great resource for you. And there are some of us just like you! Vegans that have realized that some animal products may be necessary right now. You may gain alot of insight from the mamas who gave up veganism/vegetarianism a couple of years ago and are thriving now. I know I do.

[Panserbjorne]

Just wanted to be more clear-a lack of animal products isn't necessarily what did me in, but it did prevent me from healing quickly. My issue was more the refined stuff and excessive amounts of grains as well as a decade of prescription drugs for what I know now to be nutritionally related illnesses.

[Ex Libris]

I've gone through the same kind of diet/nutrition struggle over the past couple of years. I've read, thought about, and tried raw, veg*n, macrobiotic, and NT. All of them made sense on some level, which made it all the more confusing since they seem to contradict each other on fundamental issues. I wasn't sure which one was right and felt like I was performing some kind of health experiment on my family. This was especially worrisome since my dh's family has a history of health issues (heart disease, diabetes, and stroke at the top of the list). So I especially had a hard time reconciling the NT way of eating (saturated fats and meats are good for you) with the mountain of medical research out there that says saturated fats cause heart disease and other health problems.

Then I read Dr. Sears' Family Nutrition book. It advocates a whole food, mostly plant diet. He says in the book that while he was battling colon cancer he did a very thorough examination of all of the nutrition studies out there and this book is the result of his research on how to live a long, disease-free life (particularly without heart disease and cancer). I trust Dr. Sears in all other aspects of parenting and trust his knowledge and research. So for me, his nutrition advice seems trustworthy as well. Plus, I feel like his nutrition advice is in the middle of the road, rather than the extreme ends of the spectrum like the others I tried. He advocates mostly plant foods in their whole form, with a small amount dairy, eggs, and meats.

So I've decided to follow his advice, but with a few additions/modifications like the following. He recommends some processed/convenience foods like store-bought cereal and bread, but I don't buy anything processed or pre-made. I eat whole grains as he says, but I soak them first (most of the time) like NT suggests. He says to eat lots of yogurt, but I'm also trying to add other kinds of fermented foods to my diet that are recommended in NT. I try to eat many foods raw rather than cooked. We eat meat, but only once a week and rarely red meat. We eat eggs once or twice a week, and use dairy for making pancakes and such. And when I can, I'll try to get raw dairy like NT suggests.

This is a long-winded way of saying that I feel more comfortable with being in the middle of the diet spectrum, which I think is a better way of getting everything my body needs. The other diets that advocate eating no meat or no cooked foods or lots of meat/saturated foods just don't feel right to me. The key thing I have to remember is that there *isn't* a definitive understanding of what the best diet is for optimal health. It probably varies by individual, as well as culture and region. So I just read all I can about nutrition and keep tweaking our diet based on what I find and what makes sense to me. If nothing else, I'd recommend that you read all you can AND read the footnotes of the books to see where they are getting their information and what sources they're quoting. In some of my reading, I found some rather radical ideas (I mean radical in relation to the common understanding of things) which quoted very old studies (1979) and no studies at all (just "conversations" with other people). I'm just not willing to trust such questionable research.

I wish you luck in finding the right diet for your family, too.

[Yooper]

Me too. Exactly.

I think we should start a recovering vegans tribe or something. Seriously. I want to discuss things like crying while watching dd eat her first ever egg. I want to talk about the guilt, what it is like coming clean with family and friends, why eggs smell so bad, how to learn how to even cook this stuff, etc.... I feel dumb going on the NT thread and asking what cream is for. I seriously do not know what to do with it. I have cream that is about to expire and I don't know what to do with it. Or soup bones....I have no idea what bone or cut is what. Right now I check the co-op's employee schedule so I can buy my stuff without anyone I know seeing. I am just now ready to start telling some close friends. I am not sure I will ever be able to come out of the closet with family as that will just be license for them to start feeding dd McDs and jello. I have been vegan or near-vegan my entire adult life. I was such a snob! How can I face all of these people now? Then go on to explain, that we are no longer vegan but still will not eat Ballpark Franks. It is tricky. While I do not think vegan=eating disorder, I do think that I personally was WAY too wrapped up in it and I have some emotional issues with all of it. I see myself carrying it over into NT....it is easy to do. Just insert "is that vegan?" with "is that grass fed?".

Augh!!!!!!

[newcastlemama]

Originally Posted by Yooper

Me too. Exactly.

I think we should start a recovering vegans tribe or something. Seriously. I want to discuss things like crying while watching dd eat her first ever egg. I want to talk about the guilt, what it is like coming clean with family and friends, why eggs smell so bad, how to learn how to even cook this stuff, etc.... I feel dumb going on the NT thread and asking what cream is for. I seriously do not know what to do with it. I have cream that is about to expire and I don't know what to do with it. Or soup bones....I have no idea what bone or cut is what. Right now I check the co-op's employee schedule so I can buy my stuff without anyone I know seeing. I am just now ready to start telling some close friends. I am not sure I will ever be able to come out of the closet with family as that will just be license for them to start feeding dd McDs and jello. I have been vegan or near-vegan my entire adult life. I was such a snob! How can I face all of these people now? Then go on to explain, that we are no longer vegan but still will not eat Ballpark Franks. It is tricky. While I do not think vegan=eating disorder, I do think that I personally was WAY too wrapped up in it and I have some emotional issues with all of it. I see myself carrying it over into NT....it is easy to do. Just insert "is that vegan?" with "is that grass fed?".

Augh!!!!!!

:
I need it join your group Yooper. I am afraid too that my family will think that mainstream animal foods/processed cr*p are all good now....I also feel silly telling people....I told best friend so far because she is NT as she was so excited....she was worried about me on veganism (extremely low-fat also) and was glad I had the book. We are going to support eachother in learning.

I have no clue about animal food preparation either!!! I was reading about stock and thought, "I am going to have to ask an employee to help me shop at the HFS" Kind of embarrassing.

I have been obsessed with animal fat my entire life and it is going to be very hard to relax and trust the generations of people before me. I am give NT a good fair go and I will assess my families whole being--mental, dental, physical, hair, skin, nails....I am going to pray a lot for the Lord to guide me...He has provided what has nourished peolple forever and I have to trust He will lead my family to health.

[pnutS4us]

Hey Yooper and Newcastlemama--

I was a pro chef (till I married dh) and if you guys need any help on stock making or 'what is this??' feel free to PM me, and I will gladly help you guys, er gals out with any questions. Don't feel embarrased ok? I am glad to help!

[mom2zsel]

Me, Too!

I am so glad I am not the only one!! I, too, cringe watching my kids eat meat-just so far from where I was. Veg was comfortable, easy to just say no to meat at gatherings and no one looked funny at me-well, not any more as I had been doing this for years....

I do not even know how to pick out meat-found a source for grass-fed-feel like an idiot because other than ground, the other cuts mean nothing to me.

Let's do this together, mama's!

[Panserbjorne]

LOL me too! What the heck do you do with the stuff? Somone suggested a use for beef tenderloin, so I'm going to try that today...we'll see if I get out the door or not.

[JaneS]

I used to be mostly vegan too. Been eating meat for several years now and STILL don't know how to cook some stuff!

Originally Posted by momandmore2

If nothing else, I'd recommend that you read all you can AND read the footnotes of the books to see where they are getting their information and what sources they're quoting. In some of my reading, I found some rather radical ideas (I mean radical in relation to the common understanding of things) which quoted very old studies (1979) and no studies at all (just "conversations" with other people). I'm just not willing to trust such questionable research.

This is a good point... and what impressed me about the WAPF, NT book and the Price Pottenger foundation compared to other nutrition books. I now think the impression that heart disease and cancer are caused by saturated fats is the questionable research. (After all, why were both of them so rare in 1900 with Americans eating more beef and saturated fats, like butter and lard which were staples, than they do today?)

I spent the first half of last year following most of the footnotes in NT esp. about cholesterol and fats. And reading "Nutrition and Physcial Generation" for the first time. It took a long time for it to really sink in and put into practice (plus I was dairy free for bf'ing at the time). It's been quite a journey to understand exactly what nutrients it takes to build the body and brain.

That being said, I still feel like I'm experimenting and don't have it all right. Esp. with DS!