I just feel like its one big waste of my time.

[drnmd1216]

I have two friends having baby boys that I have put so much energy towards informing them. I have been informing my sister and my best friend, even though they are both no where near getting pg. When circumcision is brought up on my other message boards, I really get into it, giving tons of info, links, etc., and yet, I have changed no ones mind. Its so frustruating I just feel like I am wasting my time and energy, yet I feel so strongly about how wrong it is. I am hoping the time comes soon that insurance doesn't cover it, bc I really think that will make the true difference. I just feel so hopeless in the matter. no one I have talked to is willing to go against their idea of "norm".

this whole rant is bc I just got off the phone with a friend (another one from my other post a while back) that is having her baby this week, and she had seem pretty interested in what I said a couple weeks ago to her about leaving him intact, but today she said "yeah, we have decided that its probably the wrong decision, but we are going to circ." I just don't get it and it took me all my strength to not tell her that was the most assisine reasoning I have ever heard. So instead I told her of all the complications to watch out for and she seemed surprised...I'm hoping that maybe I can get through to her with a different angle. But in my heart, I know I am wasting my time.

I just can't believe we live in a world where a parent can put their child through cosmetic surgery at 2 days old for no reasoning at all besides they want to. It just doesn't make any logical sense how you can justify having your child fit in with how their penis looks??? I am just getting exhausted by it all...not even ONE person I have talked to has changed their mind and its making me feel miserable. I talk to my dh daily about this (or maybe obsess is a better word) and he says that I should feel happy that we were at least informed enough to keep Caden intact and I should stop letting it take over my life.

How do you keep up your energy towards it all, when it seems so hopeless?

[Paper-Bag-Princess]

It can be very disheartening especially when you are giving it your all. I completely understand how you are feeling, as I have felt the same way myself. I had a friend who had her first son at 31 weeks. The baby was in NICU and she had asked the nurse when they could circ. The nurse looked at her like she had 3 heads and suggested that this friend should be more concerned with what her son was going through at the time and not when a circ. could be performed. This friend was miffed. When she had her second son, I asked her if she'd be circ'ing. She said yes because her first son was and because her dh wanted the boys to look like him and because she wasn't really going to be making the choice because she didn't have the parts. Needless to say, that friendship has gone by the wayside.

When I'm feeling really crappy about this subject, I remind myself that before I learned about circ. and what it entailed, that I would've circ'd too. I remind myself that generations of the men in my family have not had one issue with remaining intact and that my son was spared an unnecessary and painful procedure. I'm proud that my dh and I have left the decision to circ. to the person who owns the penis, and can only hope that if and when my son (or my daughter for that matter) has a family of his own that he will allow any of his children to make their own decisions regarding circ. instead of forcing this cruel surgery on an innocent and unsuspecting and trusting infant. What a horrible way to welcome a child into this world.

I can only hope that those who cling so desperately to this practice actually wake up and realize that it is not their body to mess with and that they actually learn to respect their children's bodies by letting them make that decision for themselves.

[Tori Gollihugh]

You have to keep in mind that even if you changed someone's mind, they may not tell you. And really, it sounds like you DID convince the person you mentioned, but they (she and her partner) are just choosing to ignore their knowledge, be stupid, and do something ultimately cruel to their son. Planting seeds of information is not something to feel hopeless about. Just try to think of it in terms of planting... some people who plant will never sow - either literally or figuratively. For instance, if someone plants a fruit tree from a seed, they may never get to harvest at all because they could move (or something similar), but that doesn't mean that the tree died or didn't produce... it just means that the planter didn't get the rewards.

In your situation, it's not your benefit you are seeking! So, sow away!!! Just keep reminding yourself that any baby boy who doesn't have to deal with that trauma because of something you may have said will benefit - whether you KNOW it or NOT!!!!!

[minicooper]

Don't stop doing what you are doing.

Even if the people you are trying to educate aren't getting it, I'm sure there are people that read what you post or listen to you and decide to research further and decide not to. It's worth it - even if you don't have proof that you affected someone. Don't stop

[drnmd1216]

well that is what I figure about online...that I am reaching a much bigger audience lurker wise (that is how I started to question circumcision myself.) I just don't get my RL friends at all...these are well-educated people who all went to college. I keep going over and over in my head what I could have said differently to really open their eyes. I really think that once they do it, they will regret it and will realize what I was talking about, but obviousy that is too late for their poor little boys. and than they will probably circ. other boys just to match brothers...augh!! Another college friend of mine just called me up the other day to tell me she was newly pg, and the 2nd thing I said after my congrats was about circumcision. She said she is very for it, but than I told her Caden wasn't and I had some info for her and she seemed interested to at least hear about my side.

I will keep trying to spread the word....maybe one day I will make a difference somewhere, in some tiny little way.

[pumpkinsmama]

Don't give up! (like the pp said) It sounds to me like you had her convinced but her partner/husband talked her out of it. A big part of being able to say no is deciding that you don't always have to respect your partners/husbands opinion when it comes to your childs well being. It is hard to do. Even if it didn't sink in this time, maybe by the time they have another child what you have said will make them decide against circ.

Online is a great way to spread info! I appreciatte every tidbit I gather and pass a lot of it on to DH. I don't have any other source of info but for online and it would be disastrous for me if people like you didn't share your knowledge

[zaftigmama]

Don't give up! I can totally understand why you are feeling frustrated and disheartened. But keep going. Kepp trying. If you can change one person's mind, it's all worth it for that little boy.

Also, just keep putting the idea out there, and by having heard someone stand up for intact-ness, someone may think twice. I have a close friend who was planning to circ, and I was heartbroken. But after she gave birth, the nurse asked about circ and she just said, "No." She swears it was like I took over her body for that moment - she called and thanked me right away for being the voice of reason. She said she had never really heard anyone say it was wrong before.

I can't imagine ever saying the sentence, "Well, we know it's the wrong decision but we've decided to do it." about anything that has to do with my kids. If you know it's wrong - don't do it!!! If a friend of mine said something that stupid I'd have a hard time being friends with her. It just doesn't make sense!!!

Focus on the positives - you may have reached someone and you just don't know about it. As for the ones you can't convince, know you did your best and move on. You're going to get through to someone and it will be worth it.

Take care!

[baybee]

Melissa and the other posters on this thread,
Reading through this today, my heart is so lifted. It takes a lot of courage
to keep speaking the truth when others don't want to hear. If everyone was receptive, we wouldn't have a job to do.

There is so much caring and heart in all of your posts. We live in a cynical world and it gives me great inspiration that there are women who care about the children and find ways to contribute to their wellness. Thanks for all you do.
Baybee

[Quirky]

It is SO discouraging when you lose one (or more....) especially if it's someone you know personally and you will see that poor little baby and imagine what was done to him, when you tried so hard to save him.

But it's so important not to give up. Do what you need to do to keep yourself sane and mentally balanced, but keep on trying - because you will get through to someone, some day, whether you know it or not, and that will make such a huge difference in the life of a baby!

On days when I just can't face the activism because I'm so tired and discouraged, I take comfort in the fact that I'm spreading the intactivist word every time I pull out of my driveway with my intactivist bumper stickers and license plates. Just passively educating people while running my errands, etc.

Hang in there, mama.

[Leiahs]

Definitely don't stop spreading the word! I lurked through a lot of circ debates on mainstream boards during my 1st pregnancy (a girl), and it never changed my mind on the issue. I had the cultural blinders on. BUT, it did plant a seed in my head. I think I have heard it said about missionary work that an average of 10 contacts (i.e., seeds planted) need to be made before a person is ever really ready to seriously investigate a religion. I imagine it might take even more on something so ingrained as circumcision. Plant enough seeds, let the idea sink into someone's head, and hope for the best. I changed my mind....the seeds planted eventually prompted me to do my own reading and thinking about it. Each time you give someone good information, you're softening the soil a bit, so to speak, and eventually a seed will take root. And you know what, even if you never personally saving a little boy besides your own, at least you have changed your own family and all future generations of it (as long as you keep talking about it!), and softening up other people in order for them to be ready to change their minds, too.

It's such an emotional issue, it's hard to keep from feeling discouraged and like giving up, but it's so important, we all need to keep it up!

[pdx.mothernurture]

First, regarding never having changed anyone's mind---You never know who's lurking, reading, and reconsidering. I remember one particular time when I felt very frustrated and I didn't think anyone was really taking it in...months later, a woman posted that it was my thread/posts and encouraging her to research that caused her to look into the topic more, and she had me to thank for leaving her little guy whole. WOW. You really never know who your words are getting to and affecting...you may never know...but rest assured, it does make a difference.

RE: Knowing something is wrong, but doing it anyway---I think I would tell her, loud and clear, that that is a good way to set yourself up for lifelong guilt/regret. Circumcision can be done anytime in a boy/man's life---there's no reason to rush and 'get it over with', ESPECIALLY when they are already having STRONG reservations. That's her instinct/conscience talking to her---and she should listen to it!

I think I would really encourage her to read the regret thread on this board...it's opened the minds of many.

Jen

[MommytoB]

I been working on my brother even though he is not married but does have his gf living with him so I am hoping to get to talk to his gf about this issue. I talked to at least 5 cousins and I only got one to think ethically about his body his choice.

Some medical professionals from Better Babies are listening the young gal who's a nurse don't have kids yet but maybe the way I talk will prevent her from circing her future son's.

I have heard some family members saying at the family dinner buffet meeting we having a boy and I wish I could find a way to directly approach them on the circ issue . I do more better with writing

[MommytoB]

I been working on my brother even though he is not married but does have his gf living with him so I am hoping to get to talk to his gf about this issue. I talked to at least 5 cousins and I only got one to think ethically about his body his choice.

Some medical professionals from Better Babies are listening the young gal who's a nurse don't have kids yet but maybe the way I talk will prevent her from circing her future son's.

I have heard some family members saying at the family dinner buffet meeting we having a boy and I wish I could find a way to directly approach them on the circ issue . I do more better with writing

[Frankly Speaking]

Becky, I started my career in sales and there is a well known fact in sales. The more people you contact, the more likely you are to make a sale and for every person you talk to, you will fine tune your message to become more effective.

When I was actually "in the trenches" making sales, I would set a quota for myself. If I were actually on the road making cold calls, I would have a personal quota of 12 contacts a day and if I were working the telephone, the quota was 30 actual contacts a day. Quite often, I didn't make that quota but I almost always came close. Not only was I guaranteeing myself success by nothing more than sheer numbers, everytime I actually talked to someone, my message became better and more effective. I never worked anywhere that I wasn't the top salesman in the company. Nobody seemed to be able to figure out how I did it and I didn't give away my secret until I made sales manager. No one who ever worked for me who followed my recipe was a failure. They thought I was a slave driver in the begining and quite irrational and unreasonable in my demands until suddenly they were more successful than they had ever been before. Then, they were thankful with every paycheck. The only ones that weren't thankful were my competitors.

In sales, there is also an initial fear of the prospect or client. The way to abolish that fear is to make lots of contacts. The more you contact, the less fear there will be. Sales people are usually reticent to contact strangers and prefer an established customer base. The do that because those established businesses are in a comfort zone and that comfort zone is a dangerous place because they limit their success to those customers. To be truly successful, they have to quit limiting themselves and venture out. I always had more new customers than any other sales person and some of them were big "Home Run" types that made me up to $40,000.00 with a single sale. If I had stuck in my comfort zone, I never would have gotten those sales.

This issue is the exact same thing. The more people you contact, the more successes you will have. The more you give out your message, the more practiced and effective you will become. It's as simple as that. When I first became involved in the issue, it was very discouraging because I didn't save many if any boys but eventually, I saved one and then another and now, I suspect I have saved hundreds if not thousands. That's a very satisfying feeling.



Frank

[theresa_caine]

Melissa-

You don't know that you haven't influenced anyone for sure. I learned about not circing on a mainstream board, and decided not to circ and educate others. I don't know that the people that gave the great info know...I wish I could tell them.

Keep plugging away!

[Getz]

This thread is so perfect for me right now because I am feeling so down. I have been IMing a friend all day about cloth diapers, and she knows the fact about circing but will be circing the baby they hope to adopt in July. She said she needed to do it because how will she explain to him why he looks different than Daddy? OMG, I about died. I asked her how often she thinks the baby will see Daddy's when he is old enough to notice the difference?

I had to get stop IMing her, it is just too upsetting.

And my sister who is a lab tech and comments on how heartbreaking it is to draw blood on babies, circed son 1 and any future sons.

And there was a circ discussion on another board (which I mistakenly thought was crunchy) where the circ by choice moms wanted "respect for their decisions", you want respect for doing that to your child???

I just don't get it. I don't get how so many people can do that to little babies. I didn't get it before I became a mother and I sure as hell don't get it now that my son is here.

[hipem]

Originally Posted by drnmd1216

this whole rant is bc I just got off the phone with a friend (another one from my other post a while back) that is having her baby this week, and she had seem pretty interested in what I said a couple weeks ago to her about leaving him intact, but today she said "yeah, we have decided that its probably the wrong decision, but we are going to circ."

Someone I used to be friends with asked me for my feelings on circumcision (we were both pregnant with boys at the time). I said no way for us and these are the reasons why......After the boys were born, she said she wasn't sure about their decision but that they had had him circumcised anyway. ! All I could think is if you're not sure wouldn't it be a lot more sensible to not do it?! : I was so upset.

[EvansMomma]

Please do not give up!
I was a very very "mainstream" parent-to-be when I was pregnant, and I was out one day looking for a different magazine about parenting since I'd exhausted all the other ones I came across, and hence discovered Mothering magazine. This was back in the summer sometime, and I knew by this point we were having a boy, and there was an article int he magazine about circumcision. I thought like many other people, that there were good solid reasons for circ'ing and was absolutely going to go ahead with it.

That article opened my eyes, even after reading COUNTLESS online "debates" about the issue. So just know that even if someone at first doesn't really respond to your information, that if you keep it up, one day the lightbulb will flicker on and you'll have gotten through.

My son is intact, and I am so thankful that I found the info when I did...and now I "spread the word" as much as possible. Even if I dont change any minds right away, at least I will know in my heart that I am not sitting by idly while people butcher their sons.

Keep up the good work!

[2Sweeties1Angel]

You are NOT wasting your time. If it hadn't been for people like you, I might still be ambivalent toward circumcision because I didn't understand what it really was and how dangerous it could be. DS is circed with no problems, but what if I had another son and he wasn't so lucky? I will never cut another of my children.