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Wondering about common "complications" with being intact  

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Frank, you can probably give me the best answer on this. I know that most complications associated with being intact are easy enough to handle without cutting of functional parts of the penis.
I'm looking for a semi-comprehensive list of common complications associated with being intact. I have encountered too many people who have "had" to circ for one reason or another or circ to avoid the complications all together (why not get a colostomy bag before you need an appendectomy?). . .whatever.
Anyway, I want to see a list of penile pathologies that are associated with the intact foreskin, their frequencies, and treatments, with, if possible long term sequale of having the pathology or treatment.
While we're on it- I would also like to see a comparative list of penile pathologies that are associated with being circed- their frequencies, treatments and sequale.

Thanks!!!!
post #2 of 12
The only "common" complications I am aware of is cut happy dr's. The only ones I know of that are true complication requiring circ are Cancer of the penis so rare u dont ever hear of it. There is aquired phimosis but it dosnt require circ all the time sometimes a simple slit in the foreskin is all that is needed. Drs here dont do that one I dont think they just wanna cut the whole thing off. I am sure Frank will be along to tell u the information u need to know.
post #3 of 12
gangrene, frostbite, and one other that i cant think of heh.
post #4 of 12
I think the list has got to be pretty comparable to comparing the problems associated with having whole female genitals vs. having circumcised female genitals. With the former - possible irritation, yeast infection, bacterial infection, all the normal stuff associated with having mucus membranes. Overall there have got to be way more problems associated with cutting than with leaving the genitals intact (assuming no overly-aggressive hygiene that disturbs the normal flora).
post #5 of 12
Quote:
Acquired phimosis
Phimosis in older children and adults can vary in severity, with some men able to retract their foreskin partially ("relative phimosis"), and some completely unable to retract their foreskin even in the flaccid state ("full phimosis")

Because of the "elasticity" of the diagnostic criteria, there has been considerable variation in the reported prevalence of pathologic phimosis. An incidence rate of 1% to 2% of the uncircumcised adult male population is often cited, though some studies of older children or adolescents have reported higher rates.2 Relative phimosis is more common, with estimates of its frequency at approximately 8% of uncircumcised men.

When phimosis develops in an uncircumcised adult who was previously able to retract his foreskin, it is nearly always due to a pathologic cause, and is far more likely to cause problems for the man.

An important cause of acquired, pathologic phimosis is chronic balanitis xerotica obliterans (BXO), a skin condition of unknown origin that causes a whitish ring of indurated tissue (a cicatrix) to form near the tip of the prepuce. This inelastic tissue prevents retraction. Some evidence suggests that BXO may be the same disease as lichen sclerosus et atrophicus of the vulva in females.[2] Infectious, inflammatory, and hormonal factors have all been implicated or proposed as contributing factors. Circumcision is usually recommended though alternatives have been advocated.

Phimosis may occur after other types of chronic inflammation (e.g., balanoposthitis), repeated catheterization, or forceful foreskin retraction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phimosis

Quote:
The worst acute complication is paraphimosis. In this acute condition, the glans is swollen and painful, and the foreskin is immobilized by the swelling in a partially retracted position. The proximal penis is flaccid. Paraphimosis is considered an emergency.
Paraphimosis is were the foreskin is retracted behind the glans and then the glans swell causing a emergancy situation. There are other ways to treat it first before a circ is performed. Including packing in ice, and/or sugar to releive the swelling. If that dosnt work a circ might not be needed if a slit can be done in the foreskin so that it can then be put back over the glans.

Lots of other info on the page i linked to.

Another link. http://www.male-initiation.net/statistics.html

i dont agree with all he says
Quote:
With our culture's attitudes on health care, it would be appropriate to monitor boys before puberty and encourage early prevention with conservative means.
He goes on to say elsewere that we should check the penis often : to stop any problem (tight foreskin) before it happens.
post #6 of 12
This is a helpful link for cut happy doctors:

http://www.cirp.org/library/treatment/
post #7 of 12
This article is pretty good as far as comparing "problems" between circed and intact:
http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/vanhowe/

This is also good to explain the true cost($) of circumcision.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/11/prweb180294.htm

Take care,
Tara
post #8 of 12
Wow, Laura! You've asked a question that really doesn't have a full and comprehensive answer in any one simple spot. There have been separate studies of many of the problems but not one that covers them all as far as I know. The record keeping and collection of American/Canadian medicine is not very good as far as being complete and comprehensive. Countries with socialized medicine are much better at this record keeping since they pay for all of it and have a central record keeping center. However, I will give it a shot.

The risks of having a circumcised penis includes bacterial and fungal infections. It appears that the risk of these is in the range of 1% - 3% lifetime and these are easily treated with medication in all cases except possibly the rare case of lichen sclerosis that resists treatment. It appears that the risk of this is less than 1/10,000 lifetime. Approximately 1% of men will have a non-retractile foreskin in their late teens. 99% of these are easily treated with simple stretching exercises and occasionally application of betamethesone steroidal cream. This leaves the risk of non-treatable phimosis at 1/1,000. However, it also appears that many of these cases are iatrogenic (doctor caused) in that many physicians still forcibly retract and recommend daily retraction and cleaning of very young boys. This is a recipe for phimosis. There is also a complication of diabetes that results in acquired phimosis in late life. This usually manifests itself in late life. (late 50's or later) Intact foreskins have been implicated in penile cancer but there is no evidence to support this. The incidence of penile cancer in Sweden (Virtually none are circumcised) is far lower than in the US where the vast majority of men are circumcised. Penile cancer is a non issue for men anywhere since there is a vaccine that will prevent it available since last December. Paraphimosis is an oft mentioned risk but the risk is less than 1/300 and that risk totally disappears once the child is retractile. I have never been able to find an incidence of a child dying because he had a foreskin.

It is obvious that the greatest risk to a child or adult with a foreskin is the ignorance of the medical profession. Probably 99%+ of post-natal circumcisions in America are needless and the result of physician ignorance, greed and lazyness.

Now for the risks of circumcision . . . The AAP promotes a rate of less than 1/500 problems but a single survey belies their deception. The rate of meatal stenosis alone is at least 9% and maybe as much as 31%! There is also the risk of hair from the pubic mound being pulled up on the penile shaft at 18%. Those are the simple ones. There is also the risk of hemoraghing which can lead to death in extreme cases. And now that I mention death, more than 200 boys die every year as a result of their circumcisions for a risk factor of 1/7,000. Since the AAP set their policy that circumcision is not a beneficial procedure, more than 66,000 boys have died to look like Daddy or what ever. Something that surprised most people is that circumcised boys are at risk of all of the things that intact boys are at risk of except paraphimosis. Indeed, the risk of phimosis, the thing that gets all of the press, is more common in circumcised boys than in intact boys. As the style of circumcisions has changed to a more generous style, it is becoming quite common for the scar tissue to contract and harden causing a legitimate case of phimosis. I have also read research recently that with these new style circumcisions, that as many as 7% - 10% of circumcised boys are circumcised a second time because of problems such as adhesions or just because the child's penis does not meet the cosmetic expectations of the parents. These new style circumcisions are an effort to resolve problems that adult circumcised men suffer because too much skin was taken. In reality, they have just exchanged one set of problems for another.

A reduction in penile sensitivity affects all men that are circumcised . . . period! 100%! There is also some indication that circumcision has a component in premature ejaculation but there is no research I am aware of to comfirm this. However, there are two studies that confirm that men loose a significant part of their sex life to erectile dysfunction if they are circumcised. As much as 10 years of their sex life! There are some disturbing statistics . . . American men consume 54% of the world's supply of Viagra type products. Israel (Jewish and circumcised) is the world's largest counterfeiter of Viagra type products and Indonesia (Muslim and circumcised) is the largest per capita consumer of Viagra type products. On the flip side, Viagra type products have failed to find a significant market in Europe where the vast majority of men are intact. K-Y Jelly has also failed to find a market in Europe as well.

It also appears that male circumcision is a component in female arousal syndrome. The hypothesis is that the immovable shaft skin of the circumcised penis causes cumulative trauma to the vaginal sphincter. This results in sex so painful for the woman that often, she can not participate. This syndrome usually manifests itself after menopause when the production of vaginal fluid also decreases. Surgeons have experimented with a procedure that replaces the skin at the vaginal sphincter with new skin in a skin graft type procedure but the success rate has been less than 40%. Maybe the women are thankful when their circumcised husbands go impotent because of their circumcisions. They don't feel guilty because the sex is painful when he can't do it any longer.

While this is not an all inclusive list, it can give you some amunition.



Frank
post #9 of 12
Frank,
I think that is a great job summarizing a very complicated issue. However, once you mention the 200 death/year any one that is a bit of a skeptic (me included) is going to demand that it is backed up- or dismiss it altogether.

Now I know that is unlikely to get the 'stats' and you have explained why before, but (and this is just my opinion) it just seems that most people on the fence or who have circed before are going to hear that figure- 200/ year and then dismiss every other valid point you made.

Because we would just think (and hope and wish, etc) that 200 child just CANNOT possibly die from a circumcision- EVER, more so even in a single YEAR. If you are not already at a point where circumcision just doesn't make any sense, then this statistic just seems too outrageous to possibly be true.

When I was on 'the fence' I dismissed such 'extreme' claims as ridiculous and even thought people calling circ mutilation, child abuse were being a bit extreme. So I know how much of a shift in my point of view I had to go through...

It is just so hard for me to even beleive the 200 figure because you would think that just 1 parent would do enough to get it out there-- and one little media blurb on this and it is probably all over.

Jessica
post #10 of 12
Jessica, I understand how you feel about the "200 deaths per year" statement. I wish there was a hard and fast link to an impeachable source that provided evidence of this horrifying statistic.

I DO happen to believe that it is very possible that many baby boys die from circumcision complications every year (in the US and Canada). The fact that they do not make national news does not mean they do not exist. I can only think of two that I have seen in the national news: Dustin Evans, (Cleveland) who died under general anesthesia when doctors tried to repair his botched circ; and Ryleigh McWillis, a Candian baby who died as a result of excessive blood loss from his circumcision wound.

Yet there was a woman on a parenting site like this one whose son suffered circ complications (mostly infection-related) for months before he eventually died. The story did not even make local news, much less national, at the parents' request. Another woman I know from a parenting site lost a nephew to circ complications. Again, this case never made the paper.

I have a friend who died of bacterial meningitis. He was a perfectly healthy 24-yr-old, who worked out on Wednesday and was dead on Friday. His death made the local paper, but not national news, and when I search "bacterial meningitis death" I don't find his name, or any information about him - or even a number of deaths per year attributed to this unusual disease.

My point is that we do NOT hear about every single circumcision death in the news, any more than we hear about other unusual deaths in the news. And there is not a single place where such deaths are recorded. Dustin Evans' death was first reported as a circ death in the paper; within a couple of days the on-line Cleveland newspaper had changed the headline to attribute the death to the anesthesia.

I think it is adequate to state that SOME babies die every year from circumcision complications, without putting a number on it. After all, isn't ONE death caused by an unnecessary operation too many?
post #11 of 12
http://www.cirp.org/library/general/baker1/

"That circumcision is far from benign is indicated by a death rate of infants from one year for this procedure of 16 per 90,000, an incidence of 1:6000 operations. The death rate is considerably lower after one year of age. Death rates in this country have to be estimated, however, because statistics on circumcision are not kept here."

"If we assume there to be about 1,325,000 newborn male circumcisions in the U.S., the annual cost to the consumers is around $54 million. And at least 229 of these newborns will die as a result of the operation."

Baker RL. Newborn male circumcision: needless and dangerous. Sexual Medicine Today 1979;3(11):35-36.
post #12 of 12
Jessica, I was once skeptical of those numbers as well but as I have become more involved and aware of this issue, I have come to believe they are accurate.

First of all, there have been 3 separate studies on infant deaths as a result of circumcision. One in 1979, one in 1989 and one in 1999 and they all came up with a number between 229 and 230. The first by Robert Baker has been confirmed by a friend who contacted Baker. There has been no confirmation of the 1989 study but I have been in contact with Bollinger who did the 1999 study and have no doubts about it's veracity.

Just on this forum, we have had first hand reports of 3 deaths. One by the mother, one by the god mother of the boy and one by the co-worker of a mother. Considering the size and number of members of this forum, that's an exceedingly high number. Not a single one of them made the national media. Even Ryleigh McWillis' death didn't make headlines in the US even though it was widely reported in Canada. Every year, 40 - 100 boys die from their circumcision wounds in Africa. Very few of US citizens are aware this is going on but most everybody is aware of what goes on in Africa with FGM. It has gotten so bad for males in Africa that the governments are passing very restrictive laws controlling male circumcision. Few Americans have any inkling of this.

The medical profession controls their own and how information gets out. No governmental authority has control over them to any great extent and they carefully control the dissimenation of information about their members. When a boy dies from his circumcision wound, the medical malpractice insurers swoop in and quickly settle with the parents with confidentiality clauses to prevent the information from getting out to the media. Of course, no parent wants it publicly known that they have killed their child with a esoteric surgical procedure. No physician wants it known that he/she has killed a child with a surgical procedure that they deny is a surgical procedure at all and is portrayed as "A snip." Finally, the insurance companies don't want it known what they paid to settle a case because it would set a precedence for future cases, constantly racheting the settlement amounts up.

The way the medical profession reports these cases is a recipe for keeping the true toll hidden. If a child contracts an infection from his circumcision wound, it will be reported as a death from infection. If the child dies from blood loss due to his circumcision, it will be reported as death from exsanguation. If the child's heart stops beating during the procedure, it will be attributed to heart failure. In all of these cases, the cause of the problem is circumcision that caused the problem that caused the death. Part of this is an effort to be absolutely accurate in record keeping and part of it is an effort to avoid the embarassment of killing a child with what is a procedure that is considered so simple that anesthesia is not even used.

This is not the only issue that this is the case. I have a friend from high school who is a mortician. He told me that he got a body from one of the area hospitals with a cause of death that just didn't sound right to him and he called the hospital to get some clarification. It turned out that the patient died of an MRSA staph infection. When they get a body of this nature, they go to extreme lengths to protect themselves from contracting the infection. Imagine a full contamination suit-up where they are covered from head to toe. It turns out that this hospital has had a serious and continuing problem with MRSA infections and they were trying to cover this one up. Word had already gotten out to the public by the rumor mill and they were trying to cover it up. As a matter of fact, my friend tells me he gets 5 or 6 bodies a year as a result of MRSA infections and I have never heard a word of it either from personal contacts or from the local media. If they will cover that up, do you think they wouldn't cover up circumcision deaths? Of course they would!

The last figure I saw was that about 1.6 million boys are circumcised annually. While 200+ deaths a year seems extreme, it is not a high number when you consider the percentage is very small. The bad part is that every single one of the deaths are needless. When you consider a surgical procedure, you balance the risks of the procedure against the benefits. For instance, a hypospadias repair would probably have approximately the same risk of death as a circumcision. If the hypospadias is below the glans, the benefits are obvious but if it results in the urinary opening being slightly off the tip, there would be no benefit. With no benefit, does it make sense to risk death? Of course not and the same applies to circumcision. It's just with circumcision that no one outside the movement has any idea that their son could die from this simple procedure.

Just to sum it up, yes, now I do believe the numbers. I do believe the medical profession goes to extreme lengths to cover it up and I believe that if all parents knew the risk of death is real and substantial, most would forego the procedure.




Frank
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