Chelating mamas? - Page 8

[Annikate]

I am amazed at all the different supposed chelating products out there now! There was even an ad in Mothering for a new one with a citrus based something or another. How can that chelate?

Moneca, the chapter in AC's book about the witch doctors: Is that in AMalgam Illness Diagnosis and Treatment or in another of his books?

[moneca]

Originally Posted by Annikate

I am amazed at all the different supposed chelating products out there now! There was even an ad in Mothering for a new one with a citrus based something or another. How can that chelate?

Moneca, the chapter in AC's book about the witch doctors: Is that in AMalgam Illness Diagnosis and Treatment or in another of his books?

Yes, it would be one thing if all these different chelators only wasted money, but some can be harmful, esp. to more toxic individuals. You will see previous posts by myself and Toraji that attest to neurological consequences of starting with too much chelator.
The witch doctor reference is made toward the protocols used by some NDs. The section starts on p. 131 and continues to 132 titled "what will happen - prognosis". This is found in Amalgam Illness.

[kaPOW!]

Naturopath recommendations

You may remember me saying that I was going to talk to a naturopath re:removal of mercury filling in decayed tooth right away, and general treatment plan for mercury removal someday in the future.

Well, I just got back from her office, and I was hoping to run her treatment plan by you mama's to see what you think. She seemed to be fully aware that I shouldn't be trying to mobilize the mercury. She said that what I WOULD want to do is bind the mercury with other *things* so that it doesn't cross the brain barrier and so that it can be filtered through the liver and out the bowel. She said that her treatment plan would help ensure that the mercury that is going to be released would come out the bowel rather than go into the blood, where my breastfeeding babe could get it.

So, this is what she wants me to start the day before the removal, and to continue for a week in most instances:

A LOT of cilantro

Whey protein powder, 1 Tb a day

A LOT of garlic, beans, broccoli, brussel sprouts, broccoli sprouts, kale

A LOT of fiber, even psillium powder if necessary

Vit C, 1 gram 5x per day

Dandelion and Burdode root tea, everyday

10 glasses of water a day, at least

Green teas

High quality multivitamin: MAXXUM 3 by Karuna (Vits and Mins -Iron) 6caps/day

NAC (N-acetylcysteine) 600 mg/day

Modifilan-pure brown seaweed extract (Laminaria japonica extract) 1500mg and then 3000mg per day

One epson salt bath per day

Does this look reasonable to you? It's mostly foods/natural stuff so I'm less worried about it than I normally would be. She said that none of these things acts as a chelator...

What do you think?

[Annikate]

FWIW, my holistic dentist said to be very very careful w/cilantro. I am not yet ready to chelate myself (still b'feeding) so I don't know what he *would* recommend.

Interested in hearing others' responses.

[moneca]

Originally Posted by maybeknott

You may remember me saying that I was going to talk to a naturopath re:removal of mercury filling in decayed tooth right away, and general treatment plan for mercury removal someday in the future.

Well, I just got back from her office, and I was hoping to run her treatment plan by you mama's to see what you think. She seemed to be fully aware that I shouldn't be trying to mobilize the mercury. She said that what I WOULD want to do is bind the mercury with other *things* so that it doesn't cross the brain barrier and so that it can be filtered through the liver and out the bowel. She said that her treatment plan would help ensure that the mercury that is going to be released would come out the bowel rather than go into the blood, where my breastfeeding babe could get it.

So, this is what she wants me to start the day before the removal, and to continue for a week in most instances:

A LOT of cilantro

Whey protein powder, 1 Tb a day

A LOT of garlic, beans, broccoli, brussel sprouts, broccoli sprouts, kale

A LOT of fiber, even psillium powder if necessary

Vit C, 1 gram 5x per day

Dandelion and Burdode root tea, everyday

10 glasses of water a day, at least

Green teas

High quality multivitamin: MAXXUM 3 by Karuna (Vits and Mins -Iron) 6caps/day

NAC (N-acetylcysteine) 600 mg/day

Modifilan-pure brown seaweed extract (Laminaria japonica extract) 1500mg and then 3000mg per day

One epson salt bath per day

Does this look reasonable to you? It's mostly foods/natural stuff so I'm less worried about it than I normally would be. She said that none of these things acts as a chelator...

What do you think?

This sounds like what an old ND tried to tell me on a smaller scale. I can only tell you what I know and that is that mercury is a very dangerous element to take chances with esp. if you're prego or bf. I personally don't buy that her suggestions would not allow the mercury to be mobilized and not pass through to your breastmilk. You're trusing her with a lot. I don't have a clue what some of these things would do. Some are just antioxidants and mild detoxers. I know that Cutler advises against chlorella and (I think) cilantro because they often drop mercury before it exits the body and goes back into circulation. If you're serious about following this protocol I'd at least research every supplement and food item she lists above and find its mechanism of action in protecting your body or binding to the mercury. I personally wouldn't mess with mercury in any way (even having my amalgams cleaned) until my babe had weaned.

[PingPong'sMom]

Your thoughts/opinions, what am I missing?

I just got the results of my hair test. Not mercury toxic, according to AC's counting method.

After amalgam removal (3 months ago), the ND I was seeing at the time, asked me to do a urine challenge test and I did it according to AC's more safe method. These results showed I was excreting a lot of mercury and lead (but this test is useless, right? Not a reliable method of determining mercury toxicity?).

I thought I was mercury toxic because: I had a *mouthful* of fillings (3 huge/deep fillings, 5-6 medium-sized ones and 2-3 small surfac-ey ones), have Graves Disease/thyroid issues, etc. I am putting off TTC because I thought I was mercury toxic (ss has autism).

I'm on my second round of DMSA/ALA (12.5/12.5mg) and the side effects of mild headaches are easily handled with supplements and chiropractic adjustments.

Should I continue chelating? What am I missing? What else do I need to consider to make this decision?

Thanks for your help!

Chris

[moneca]

Originally Posted by PingPong'sMom

I just got the results of my hair test. Not mercury toxic, according to AC's counting method.

After amalgam removal (3 months ago), the ND I was seeing at the time, asked me to do a urine challenge test and I did it according to AC's more safe method. These results showed I was excreting a lot of mercury and lead (but this test is useless, right? Not a reliable method of determining mercury toxicity?).

I thought I was mercury toxic because: I had a *mouthful* of fillings (3 huge/deep fillings, 5-6 medium-sized ones and 2-3 small surfac-ey ones), have Graves Disease/thyroid issues, etc. I am putting off TTC because I thought I was mercury toxic (ss has autism).

I'm on my second round of DMSA/ALA (12.5/12.5mg) and the side effects of mild headaches are easily handled with supplements and chiropractic adjustments.

Should I continue chelating? What am I missing? What else do I need to consider to make this decision?

Thanks for your help!

Chris

Hmmm. I have to ask you some further questions. Did you use DDI for your hair analysis? Were you breastfeeding at the time of hair analysis?
The headaches are generally thought of as mercury redistribution when chelating and I had them too when I started chelating.
I had some pretty bad signs of toxicity, but I still did the DDI hair analysis to confirm that I was toxic and I met two counting rules - one just barely. That made me decide to chelate and I'm glad I did because I have a list of about 15 things that have totally resolved or improved since I began the ALA portion. I need to list all those things here and just haven't gotten to it. If your answers to my above questions are both "no" then I'm not sure what to tell you. Hair tests while bf are not reliable and Andy only suggests using DDI so I'm not sure about the accuracy of other tests.
I believe the degree of mercury toxicity of an individual has a lot to do with the condition of that person's natural detox pathways. Mine are trash which I attribute to the horrible number of vaxes I received as a child and in ursing school/nursing jobs. Your detox pathways might be much better even though you had QUITE a number of fillings. Have you noticed any improvements even though you just started on ALA?
Anything else I would tell you would be a guess. I would suggest you go to :

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...ose-chelation/

Most of the people in this yahoo group are VERY toxic and have been chelating for years. I've found TK's advice to be sound. Andy visits the group occasionally and the folks there know a lot more than I do. Please let me know what they tell you as I will be curious.
Oh, one additional point. Jane S is here frequently. She had 11 (I think) amalgams that were removed by a holistic dentist. I don't know the surface area or depth of her amalgams. Her hair test by DDI showed that she did not meet any counting rules, but she did this while bf. I don't think she has repeated the test yet. Maybe she'll show up soon.

[PingPong'sMom]

[QUOTE=moneca;6223258]Hmmm. I have to ask you some further questions. Did you use DDI for your hair analysis? Were you breastfeeding at the time of hair analysis?
The headaches are generally thought of as mercury redistribution when chelating and I had them too when I started chelating.

I did use DDI for the hair analysis.
I am not breastfeeding now or ever (Was preparing for first pregnancy when ss was diagnosed with autism; did my research and found link to amalgam fillings; am delaying TTC to replace fillings and chelate).

Headaches: yeah, that's what I thought. Before I got the hair test results, I felt kinda good that though they were mild, the headaches indicated that I had some mercury to move.

Now, I'm not sure what to think.

Thanks for the reply Moneca. And yes, I've posted on the yahoo group before and am interesting in what JaneS has to say here (no pressure, Jane!).

[moneca]

Chris,
Sorry, I don't have any other thoughts on this. I would be really interested to hear what folks at the yahoo group say.

[sunshinestarr]

subbing

I am going to search also but in case it hasn't come up yet - is it a good idea to chelate while breastfeeding?
Thanks!

[Annikate]

RE: b'feeding and hair test analysis

I asked Andy Cutler directly about this because I had myself and dd tested at the same time (while b'feeding). Breastfeeding skews the results of the mother. The child's results should be more accurate.

Both dd and I met the counting rules and I recently sent off another one for dd (she's still b'feeding) and she again, met 2 counting rules.

Since I still have 4 amalgams left, I am not going to chelate myself but am getting ready to start the chelating process for dd. (We're working on getting her gut in order first.)

I really wish someone would research toxicity and how it relates to b'feeding.

[Annikate]

Originally Posted by sunshinestarr

subbing

I am going to search also but in case it hasn't come up yet - is it a good idea to chelate while breastfeeding?
Thanks!

General consenses is NO! Mercury and other metals will get stirred up and pass through your b'milk to your dc.

[sunshinestarr]

Thanks Annikate!!!

[kaPOW!]

Thanks Moneca. I've looked into the ingredients on the list and confirmed that cilantro seems like a really bad idea. Also, the MV that she recommended has huge levels of B12, which appears to be another no-no...

I think I'm going to reschedule for a couple weeks from now so that I can build up a bigger supply of freezer milk... The general consensus is that the poison leaves the system in about 3 days, right? I've read here that the body tends to dump a lot of toxins after amalgam removal as part of the natural detox response, but since I'm only going to have one removed, I wonder if my body will even really notice that the mercury level has dropped enough for it to respond by dumping any mercury loads...

Anyway, I think my fears will be better mitigated with a larger supply of milk. So, it's off to the pump I go. Thanks again

[moneca]

Originally Posted by maybeknott

Thanks Moneca. I've looked into the ingredients on the list and confirmed that cilantro seems like a really bad idea. Also, the MV that she recommended has huge levels of B12, which appears to be another no-no...

I think I'm going to reschedule for a couple weeks from now so that I can build up a bigger supply of freezer milk... The general consensus is that the poison leaves the system in about 3 days, right? I've read here that the body tends to dump a lot of toxins after amalgam removal as part of the natural detox response, but since I'm only going to have one removed, I wonder if my body will even really notice that the mercury level has dropped enough for it to respond by dumping any mercury loads...

Anyway, I think my fears will be better mitigated with a larger supply of milk. So, it's off to the pump I go. Thanks again

Sara - good luck with whatever you decide to do. Storing a supply of bm does sound like a safer idea. Most of us don't want to do our own research and just trust that practicioners know what they're doing. It's harder and more time consuming to do your own research, but you increase your knowledge and empower yourself each time you do. You develop the courage to stand up to practicioners. Good for you for taking the time to look everything up.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by PingPong'sMom

Thanks for the reply Moneca. And yes, I've posted on the yahoo group before and am interesting in what JaneS has to say here (no pressure, Jane!).

Yes, Moneca was right, I did not test toxic, but I had just weaned DS at the time so the hair was probably growing while I was bf'ing.

I would say in my totally unfounded personal opinion that you having all those fillings would mean some Hg has gotta be stored in your body somewhere! I would chelate if I had your history before ttc again.

As far as the headaches go, did you start with DMSA all alone or just go to the ALA combo? Maybe try just DMSA and see how that goes on your next round? However, I have yet to chelate myself so this is just speculation from my reading. I do think Cutler had some sort of test based on urine/blood to know whether the body is ready for ALA, Moneca do you remember this?

Also he did say that people who have side effects on small dosages could be fast metabolizers and could try more frequent dosing, like every 3 hrs instead of 4.

How else can you make the decision to continue? Other than your own observations as you chelate... Maybe test to see if chelation is causing you to excrete metals? I forgot what AHC said about that.

[xenabyte]

Hey, jumping in to post my 'ttc' and amalgam removal/detox story, per request of Moneca.

So for a brief history of why I think my 'one' amalgam filling caused so many issues, here is a little background:

I was given an overdose of penicillin (so many shots, I actually had a penicillin growth on my tongue) when I was only weeks old, as they were trying to clear up a severe ear infection, and it turned out they were treating it with the wrong meds. Finally after 3 doctor changes, he took a culture, and gave me the right stuff and it cleared up.

So I probably had my entire digestive system really screwed up from then on out, as how could any good bacteria have survived!

My mom was also told she couldn't breastfeed, due to 'milk fever' (BS back then) and so I was also formula fed, yet another 'blow' to my intestinal and general health and well being.

I was vax'd and had all the shots/oral doses. My dear mom used to tell me how baby my baby 'poo' stank (well, geez, no good probiotics to help digestion and no nutritional support to reestablish it!!!).

So along comes age 13 and I get my first and only amalgam filling (it's a deep one too) and the mercury/toxicity/lack of good digestive bacterias did a number on me!!

We ate good, and lived on a farm and were always outside in the fresh air, but it seemed I was always dealing with colds/flu, and dark under eye circles since I was a young kid. They tried to give us buttermilk back then to drink, but I hated it and didn't know they were /trying/ to get some sort of cultured foods in me!

I actually got married at 20 and since my current husband was military, we started ttc. 6 years later, nothing. We divorced and a few years later, I met my current and wonderful DH. We started ttc after a year and nothing for 8 years.

I decided I was tired of feeling crappy, having dark circles under my eyes and something must be up, as my cycles were horribly heavy and just exhausted me (Think I had endometrosis)!

I did a 'self designed' cleansing diet that was a modified 'low carb' diet, to help burn off excess fat and therefore purge stored toxins. I had my amalgam removed and took a mercury detox 'kit' sold at a local health food store (sorry, can't remember the name of it). During this time, I started adding in chlorophil rich green drinks, Emer'gen'C drinks, and took MSM, and ate lots of fresh squeezed juices and salads and some protein at night with more veggies.

(I also did a deep breathing program called, Body Flex) to help detox lungs and tone up.)

I was feeling great, lost alot of 'inches' and was looking my personal best and was like WOW!

Then about 6 months later, I'm pregnant! It was like a dream, I still didn't hardly believe it...I took two tests, had the doc's office do one, and still didn't quite believe it until we heard the heatbeat!!!

I think I may have had endometrosis, as my cycles were heavy, long and sometimes erratic. After the birth of my first 'miracle' son, that cleared up.

While I was breastfeeding him during the next two years, I started on kefir (dairy) and a diet very close to NT, still heavy on fresh juices and veggies, with good quality proteins (free range/organic stuff).

I didn't have a cycle for a year and a half after my first son, then three months after it came back, I get pregnant again! We were wanting this and happy!

Then I did almost two years with no cycles (breastfeeding him and my first son still occasionally), but towards the end of those two years, when they were just 'sipping' occasionally, I decided to do a Master Cleanse, after having had the info for YEARS and wanting to try this 'lemonade fast' for a total body 'tune up'.

I did the Master Cleanse for 10 days, then I did a bowel cleanse with the 'shakes' (psyllium) suggested on www.curezone.com, a kidney cleanse with juices and THEN I took the plunge and did a liver cleanse.

Let me just say, after I did the liver 'flush' (www.kitchendoctor.com using olive oil and lemon juice), I saw what can only be described as a 'tube/duct' shaped piece of what looked like a 'black rock'. After that 'passed', I got ALOT of green, kidney bean to lima bean shaped 'stones'....all day long I continued to pass these things in various sizes, from sandy grain particles, up to the end of your thumb sized ones!! : (Maybe TMI: These are in your BM, not urine, and are totally painless to pass, as you do a salt water flush before hand and the tubes all open up and let me tell you, they pass fast and easy!)

So then I eat a modified veggie diet, with alot of NT philosophy (Sprouting, cultured drinks/foods and healthy proteins that are slow cooked and mineral rich). Not only was I feeling/looking great, the dark circles were actually gone, but I was smaller now, after two pregnancies (where I'd gained 45 pounds each time), but my hips were down from pre-pregancy measurements of 42 inches, to 37/38" and no more cellulite!!)

Well, 'Aunt Flo' returned at just over two years, and about 3 months later, guess what....another pink preggo stick! I guess things were definitely working now..haha...

My cycles (the ones that I've had) since all of this, and my post partum bleeding have been light, pain free and not so bad at all! I also do cloth pads/diva/sponges, so I'm sure that has helped, but the endometrosis has cleared up too!

I've been doing NT and alot of raw veggie experimentation in the last few years, and while that has helped, nothing helped like the amalgam removal, a good detox and suppliment support during that time, and then keeping up with the kefirs/kombuchas and other cultured things I've added into our diet.

I have not had a cold in the last 6 years, no more allergy reactions in fall/spring, and my energy levels are awesome, unless I'm sleep deprived while dealing with a newborn!

This will be our last one pregnancy, as my first son was born when I was 35, second at 37, and this one at 40. My midwife says I'm in better shape/health than most of the 20 year olds they get in...so something is working for me!

I also do Virgin Coconut oil and sea salt, and avoid hydrogenated oils and anything artifical (esp. sweeteners), but do use Rapadura sugar and Raw Agave Nectar.

Anyway, that's my 'story' regarding TTC and doing some very inexpensive cleanses and other than the expense of having that amalgam removed...it was just the cost of fresh produce to juice and 'uncook' lots of raw stuff, and sprouting and such. NT costs us more, as the meat can get expensive, but we buy in bulk for the freezer every 6 months.

Currently I do green drinks (Kyolina Barley Grass or take Sun Chlorella tablets) when I feel I need them, Emer'Gen'C packets almost daily, MSM when I remember to take it, and I bought a Selenium suppliment that I take 1 (200 mcg) a day. I also have a liquid mineral that I add to my water bottle (just a few drops). I also take CHIA seeds in gel and dry form daily, and that's it for 'prenatals' and daily vitamins. We really do try to get most of our nutritionals in whole food form.

Both my boys are super healthy, unvaxed and have only had the sniffles once, and no colds/flu, though they are around their sick friends all the time!! I am having a homebirth this time, and if it goes as well as my first two, we should have no problems.

So if you've been ttc, remember, it took me almost 15 years!!

I read in a study somewhere that they put amalgam fillings in sheeps mouths, and they were then infertile!! That mercury stuff is nothing to play with! I would also suggest doing a search to see if you live near any coal burning plants, as they put out horrible amounts of mercury into the atmosphere/environment . I would avoid all seafood (: as I love seafood) if you are pregnant/BFing and or have been vaxed...

Good luck with ttc and just detox in general! I also heard that chlorella will not only bind with mercury, but any and all heavy metals in your body and pull them out. I know it can absorb free iron ions and it will essentially convert to hemoglobin for your bloodstream once you are sufficiently detoxed. Drinking a coconut water (almost identical to blood plasma) and green chlorophil loaded drink (for the hemoglobin like content) is like giving yourself an 'instant' blood transfusion boost!

Ok, sorry this was so long, but there is my story!

[Annikate]

Wow Heather! That's a great story and congrats on baby #3!

[Annikate]

I don't want to hijack this thread w/my questions about chelating dd (I'm off to start a thread specifically about chelating babes), but wanted to know from those of you using the Cutler method:

Are you only conerned w/mercury toxicity? I mean, using his counting rules, one can tell if there's a high probability of mercury toxicity, but how do you then determine if there are other metals that are causing problems?

What made me think of this was this thread I came across.

Does the Cutler protocol take care of *all* metals?

Also curious what you all think of this. (From the thread posted above.)

[toraji]

Hey all, popping in to catch up on posts...

moneca, are you still chelating or are you done?

I have another round or two before my bottle of ALA runs out and am trying to figure out if I want to continue chelating after that happens. How do you decide when you're done?

xenabyte, you are inspiring me to do some cleanses. I did a few liver flushes but I'm still horribly allergic.