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Chelating mamas? - Page 31

post #601 of 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
I hear you on that! I am feeling particularly frustrated about finances too right now. The supplements for multiple people add up, but even more than that is the choices we've made--me quitting work and a move which has not been a positive one financially so far. I've been struggling to have faith that this will work out to the best for our family in the long-term.
Sending you good thoughts. I hope all this good effort is beneficial for all of is.

I'm through three quadrants and have the last one coming out in a couple weeks. I _am_ feeling better emotionally and intellectually so fingers crossed it continues.
post #602 of 850
I finally got my mercury fillings out last week, and now I'm trying to gain a little weight before I start chelation. I'm down to 105 pounds and I need to put on some pounds before I chelate, since I know the symptoms you had are normally the ones that return, and I had vomiting and nausea, and I can't get any thinner without it getting scary.

I'll be starting DMSA on the Cutler protocol as soon as I can.
post #603 of 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by krankedyann View Post
I finally got my mercury fillings out last week, and now I'm trying to gain a little weight before I start chelation. I'm down to 105 pounds and I need to put on some pounds before I chelate, since I know the symptoms you had are normally the ones that return, and I had vomiting and nausea, and I can't get any thinner without it getting scary.

I'll be starting DMSA on the Cutler protocol as soon as I can.
Hey, congrats on getting your fillings out!

I don't know how much variation there is person-to-person, but I found dmsa to be a lot easier than ala. ALA caused things like mood problems for me, but the only problem I had with dmsa was for the first, say, month and a half after I got my fillings out. My body was dumping so many toxins that a couple hours after the 1st dmsa capsule I had a bad reaction, but not for the rest of the round. Not saying you should jump into chelating, but I've read that the down swing that's worst around 6 months after the fillings come out is less severe if you've been chelating (even if you just stick with dmsa and don't add ala til a lot later).

But you know your situation best, I just wanted to throw it out as a consideration. I've never had low weight problems, so I don't have any helpful advice there. And congrats!
post #604 of 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
Hey, congrats on getting your fillings out!

I don't know how much variation there is person-to-person, but I found dmsa to be a lot easier than ala. ALA caused things like mood problems for me, but the only problem I had with dmsa was for the first, say, month and a half after I got my fillings out. My body was dumping so many toxins that a couple hours after the 1st dmsa capsule I had a bad reaction, but not for the rest of the round. Not saying you should jump into chelating, but I've read that the down swing that's worst around 6 months after the fillings come out is less severe if you've been chelating (even if you just stick with dmsa and don't add ala til a lot later).

But you know your situation best, I just wanted to throw it out as a consideration. I've never had low weight problems, so I don't have any helpful advice there. And congrats!
Helpful, helpful.... thank you for sharing this tanya. I'm seeing a doc soon to discuss chelating and feel anxious, confused, cautious. So all experiences are helpful to hear.

For the record, I'm a couple weeks out of having three quadrants removed ( having the fourth out in a week) and definitely feeling better. Even if it's "just" psychological, I'm glad to have started the process.

Now if I could only win the lottery!! grr.
post #605 of 850

I did a Hair Test. Please help interpert results

I tested my 4 year old son, and would like some help in understanding the results.
Which minerals aren't where they should be, what treatments....

I'm totally new to this.

http://www.livingne <http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/files/hairtest_224.pdf>
twork.co.za/files/hairtest_224.pdf

His behavior is listed in the pdf, but it's subtle stuff - nothing
crazy out of the ordinary. Yet after reading other people's comments,
I figured it doesn't hurt to see if all these subtle stuff is normal
boy, active, behavior, or if it's more than that.

He can get frustrated easily. (So can I.) In the school setting, he
behaves well. His skills are up to par, he understand well. He's more
of a leader, he can hit a bit in school, if he wants something and
not getting it, although it's really not often that this happens -
part of the learning to share process! At home, he likes to have
things first, before his 2.5 yr. old brother, but he usually plays
very nicely together with him.

In the story of Purim, he's terrible afraid of Haman - the "evil"
character, even though I tell him daily, that he's dead already, and
he won't be visiting him, and he can't bother anyone any more. He
doesn't stop talking about him. (He does not watch scary movies or TV
at all.) This is the scariest story he's heard. He "lives it."

He can wake up crying from a nightmare, and then it takes a really
long time to calm him down.

He's trained by day, and at night, he needs a diaper. He refuses to
put it on - saying "I'm not a baby." We have to put it once he's
asleep. He wakes up at times when we put it on him, and he gets very
upset, cries a while...

He loves sweet things. So do I - I eat a lot of fruits, if I want to
stay off candy. It's really hard for me without sweet foods. I also
really like protein - chicken, meat. (I'm going to test for yeast, I
think.)

Thanks a lot everyone. I really appreciate this.
Ana
post #606 of 850
We've PM'd a bit, but I was looking over what you wrote again.

As I've mentioned before, for my kids the symptoms were pretty subtle, though now that I've been doing stuff with supplements, I can see easier that their toxic load is really high (but coming down--unfortunately there's no easy-read scale that shows me I'm x% done... but anyway...).

I think some of what you wrote could be normal for another kid, but given that his hair results aren't normal, I'd be suspicious. Especially for my daughter, I couldn't tell what the mercury was doing til I started to make progress and things started changing.

The bedwetting at night--that makes me think of a food intolerance. For a lot of people it seems to be dairy, but for my daughter I think it was gluten--she was dry at night within about a week of eliminating gluten. Other folks in Allergies have also seen the bedwetting-food intolerance link.

The excessive fear, to me, seems like something that mercury can do. I see it in myself and my daughter (not my son, for some reason) and in other family members--the mercury almost seems to exaggerate parts of our personality. For example, my daughter will never be Miss Spontaneous, and that's okay, neither am I, but I think there's a level of inflexibility that she sometimes has that's not her, it's an exaggeration of her.

I can look up some of the adrenal and thyroid ratios, I don't remember if they're in Cutler's Hair Test Interp book (and I'm not sure if things are different for kids and adults). You mentioned in the yahoo group that you already did a thyroid test--do you have the results? For me, as an adult, I know that my thyroid was off long before my bloodwork went out of the reference range--I could look at it and see it trending in a bad direction, but it took a long time to actually be abnormal. So that's worth a second look, perhaps.
post #607 of 850
Thanks Tanya.

His thyroid is fine, and mine was great.
TSH, 3rd Generation: 0.96 Range: 0.50-4.30
T4, Total: 9.8 Range: 5.6-14.9
T3, Total: 157 Range: 127-221


How long does this whole chelating cycle last? I can't yet, since I have amalgams, and my baby had vaccines recently. My DH still wants to give it, so I guess I'll have to wait a while to chelate him.(I know all the negatives to it, but my DH who doesn't hold of any crunchiness, has let me do a lot of changes - some in eating, cleaning stuff, personal care, $$ towards natural doctors...) My other 2 are done with vaccines for now. I hope not to give them the additonal 4 yr. and more boosters. How long do I have to wait after vaccines to chelate?

I also have a fear, that has gotten much better, but is there anything I can do while nursing? Not real chelating, but something subtle???

Do you do the DMSA and ALA together? There are so many views out there. I would rather start small and light, unless it's so necessary to do both.

Where do you get the supplements?

I'm going to have him tested again soon for food intolerances with a natural Dr.

Thanks again.
post #608 of 850
Aack! I typed up something yesterday and it's not here now. Will come back later today and re-reply.
post #609 of 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by abemom2 View Post
Thanks Tanya.

His thyroid is fine, and mine was great.
TSH, 3rd Generation: 0.96 Range: 0.50-4.30
T4, Total: 9.8 Range: 5.6-14.9
T3, Total: 157 Range: 127-221

Free T3 and free T4 are better indicators, IIRC both should be in the top third of the "normal" range. Did you do a blood draw specifically for thyroid? Are your and/or your HCP seeing symptoms you're concerned about? Cause then I'd definitely re-do the bloodwork with the frees.

How long does this whole chelating cycle last? I can't yet, since I have amalgams, and my baby had vaccines recently. My DH still wants to give it, so I guess I'll have to wait a while to chelate him.(I know all the negatives to it, but my DH who doesn't hold of any crunchiness, has let me do a lot of changes - some in eating, cleaning stuff, personal care, $$ towards natural doctors...) My other 2 are done with vaccines for now. I hope not to give them the additonal 4 yr. and more boosters. How long do I have to wait after vaccines to chelate?

There are only a few vaccines in the childhood schedule that still contain more than trace amounts of thimerosol. Flu vaccines often do, and the tetanus-only vaccine does. There's a heckuva lot of aluminum in some of the kids' vaccines, and I have concerns besides the aluminum, but in terms of mercury, you're probably okay (it's a non-issue in terms of your next steps, I mean).

I also have a fear, that has gotten much better, but is there anything I can do while nursing? Not real chelating, but something subtle???

Firefaery knows more than I, she is amazing. I would really focus on nutrition, probably both a beefy supplement (probably several) and really nourishing food--things that deliver a lot of fat soluble vitamins or vitamins and minerals in an easily absorbed form. When I was nursing, I took my adrenal supplements, bowel tolerance vitamin C 4x/day, modifilan, and vit/min supps (brands listed earlier in the thread). Knowing what I know now, I'd add in cod liver oil and a K2 supp (and I'd learn from FF). At this point, given that you've had 3 kids in a fairly short time period, I really think your biggest risks are from the depleted nutrition side.

Do you do the DMSA and ALA together? There are so many views out there. I would rather start small and light, unless it's so necessary to do both.

I'm only giving ALA to my kids. DMSA is more important if exposure is recent or there's reason to believe that there's more mercury circulating than has already settled in the brain and central nervous system. For my kids, their exposure was mostly before birth, and lower levels while nursing. Even when adults get a big burst of mercury from their amalgam removal, they only need to wait 3 months before starting ALA.

Where do you get the supplements?

I get mine through my healthcare provider, and they're mostly Thorne (I think I listed the ones I use for the kids earlier in this thread) and Thorne is available multiple places online. Perque is harder to find online but I've seen it a bit. Modifilan is a stand-alone product available multiple places as well.

I'm going to have him tested again soon for food intolerances with a natural Dr.

That can be helpful, it depends on your situation and what you've got going on. I've gotten good results with food journals and elimination, and the folks in Allergies are mixed--some have really been helped by testing (there are various types, I am not well-versed in that) but others mostly struck out with testing and needed to do guess-and-check. Both formal testing and food journals/elimination have strengths and weaknesses.

Thanks again.
More in a couple minutes.

In terms of the general approach that we took, we did the dietary changes we needed (gfcf, slowly identified the cashews and chocolate later) and started with supplements to support overall detoxification, and it was only after the kids' toxic load came down that I started chelating them. I waited til the kids' vitamin C need was down to less than 3 or 4 grams per day--you can skim earlier in the thread, the kids' vitamin C needs were pretty high at first.

ETA2: That last part was probably pretty cryptic. When chelating myself, I've found that a round can leave metals floating around (technical, eh?--they were mobilized but not excreted, I mean) and for me I had mood problems a couple times. For myself, I cleared that up with vitamin C flushes (the Perque link, it's earlier in the thread), but I'm clearly not going to (nor could I) do that for the kids. I think it's this extra metals that get stirred up but not excreted that sometimes cause problems after 2 or 3 rounds at a a given dosage. For the kids, if I really up their vitC during a round, along with our usual supps that support other detox pathways, it gives as much opportunity as possible for the mobilized metals to be excreted and then after the round, the kids' vitamin C need comes back down to its' normal level. It's a balance between mobilizing and providing enough pathways for detoxification, and by starting with the kids' circulating toxin levels low, it makes it easier to keep that balance.
post #610 of 850
Anybody have experience with rounds of DMSA & ALA together and ALA alone? I am feeling a bit puzzled right now.

This is my first round with just ALA, and it's the same dosage (50mg) that I started the ALA at, I haven't gone up. After I got my amalgams out, I did 3 months of rounds with just DMSA, and I didn't have real problems with it. Mostly I just had to remember to take my pill every 4 hours--it didn't cause mood problems or fatigue, both of which I had when I added in the ALA. Well, partly because I'm low on DMSA and I'm hoping to just go to ALA because it's cheaper, and I wanted to see what would happen, I'm doing this round just with ALA. And I didn't have the usual fatigue that has always before hit me on day 1 when I was taking both DMSA and ALA. I know I'm on the getting better end of things, but I'm not there yet, so I'm confused. This round has just been remembering to take my pills, not fatigue, not really anything weird.

Anyone have experience with this? Or any thoughts?
post #611 of 850
50mg of ALA for the first few rounds seems awful high. Andy now recommends you start at 12.5 or less, and wait until 6 months after your amalgam removal before starting the ALA.

I'd be concerned about doing ALA alone, since the DMSA help remove body burden to make sure you don't actually shuttle more mercury into the brain.
post #612 of 850
50mg is definitely high, but so far I've been okay with it. I should've been clearer about the timeline though: Apr08 fillings out, so Apr, May & Jun chelating with just DMSA (and that was 100mg, which I stayed constant at, again on the high end of things), then in July I added ALA (50mg) to those rounds, and I did both the DMSA & the ALA together Jul-Dec but definitely not every other weekend. Between a move, a hurricane, the holidays, and some life stress, my chelating has been erratic. But I've had multiple rounds with 50mg of ALA by now, and I assume that since it's been so long since I got my fillings out, and I chelated with just DMSA first, I don't think I should have to worry about redistribution into my brain.

As an aside, I think the reason I've been able to be at such high doses of both the DMSA and the ALA is eating gfcf and the vitamin C flushes I mentioned earlier in this thread--I've been doing those vitamin C flushes since before I got my fillings out and they significantly brought down my daily need for vitamin C and I assume helped when I did them right after I got my fillings removed each time. And I do them every week or two now. I wouldn't suggest someone just jump in with these dosages, but working with a HCP who's had experience with this has helped. To me, it seems like she's taken the fundamentals that Cutler got right and then added on to make the process a bit easier and smoother. I wasn't planning to get in touch with her for a while yet (she's in Iowa, we have phone appointments now) so I figured I'd ask around before then.
post #613 of 850
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
Anybody have experience with rounds of DMSA & ALA together and ALA alone? I am feeling a bit puzzled right now.

This is my first round with just ALA, and it's the same dosage (50mg) that I started the ALA at, I haven't gone up. After I got my amalgams out, I did 3 months of rounds with just DMSA, and I didn't have real problems with it. Mostly I just had to remember to take my pill every 4 hours--it didn't cause mood problems or fatigue, both of which I had when I added in the ALA. Well, partly because I'm low on DMSA and I'm hoping to just go to ALA because it's cheaper, and I wanted to see what would happen, I'm doing this round just with ALA. And I didn't have the usual fatigue that has always before hit me on day 1 when I was taking both DMSA and ALA. I know I'm on the getting better end of things, but I'm not there yet, so I'm confused. This round has just been remembering to take my pills, not fatigue, not really anything weird.

Anyone have experience with this? Or any thoughts?

Tanya,
I know that Andy says that ALA alone is ok, but I've found it isn't the best idea. I used to use the DMSA/ALA protocol by Cutler and then switched to NCD/ALA without issue. Since the ALA opens up the cells to let mercury pass to the area of lesser concentration something is needed to escort it out of the body.
After I had been chelating for about 9 months I decided to keep with my regular dose of ALA (this was in the middle of a 72 hour round), but not take the NCD during the night. I was hoping to save money since the NCD was way more expensive than the ALA. Well, the next morning I woke up and my detox symptoms were more than present (not a problem the night before). I took a couple increased doses of NCD during the day and the detox symptoms were lessened by that evening. I never tried that again. I knew that I needed something to take the hg out of my body after the ALA opened up the cells for mercury to move.
You could be right about the C flushes helping with the detox. C is supposed to change the mercury into a less toxic form for the body (or that is what it says in Dr. Tom Levy's book on vitamin C).
Thanks for taking over this thread. We've been dealing with mold toxicity and its effects since June so my mind has been off mercury.
post #614 of 850
Moneca, thanks for sharing your experience. So far, it's been about 3 days since I stopped that round (it was ALA only for all of it, not sure how much that would affect things) and I feel fine. I am thinking I'll wait a week or so before starting another round and if I continue to feel fine, I'm going to try again, see how it goes. It belatedly occurred to me that maybe I'm farther along in getting well than I anticipated, because vitamin C need (our bowel tolerance, I mean) has always been a pretty good indicator for us (me and the kids) as to how much we're pulling out, and I was only taking about 30 grams per day on this round (about 4 grams per dose of ALA) which seems pretty low to me (when I first started working on my health, I needed 44 grams/day just on a normal day). Anyway, maybe I just need to watch and wait a bit more and see how it goes. Thx.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moneca View Post

Thanks for taking over this thread. We've been dealing with mold toxicity and its effects since June so my mind has been off mercury.
I read in another thread about your mold issues. I know diddly-squat about mold, so I couldn't help at all. Big to you and your family, that is really rough and unfair. I found the old discussions in this thread really helpful, a nice supplement to my HCP and what I was reading from various yahoo groups, so sharing what works/doesn't work for me helps me twofold, both by giving back to this community (which has been really helpful as my life has been turned upside-down these past 3 years) and by helping me get my thoughts organized and making sense. Best of luck to you with your current struggles.
post #615 of 850
Just ran across this!

"Green tea extract (31–2000 mg), black tea extract (31–2000 mg), and soy protein (50–100 mg) significantly reduced mercury bioaccessibility by 82–92%, 88–91%, and 44–87%, respectively. Grapefruit juice (0.5–10 ml) did not reduce mercury in the aqueous phase. Wheat bran (50–1000 mg) decreased mercury bioaccessibility (84%); oat bran and psyllium reduced bioaccessibility (by 59–75%, 15–31%, respectively) at amounts greater than 500 mg. "

"We therefore suggest that co-consumption of foods containing phytochemicals at the same time as fish that contains mercury may potentially reduce mercury absorption compared to eating fish alone." http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...d312f19b863eed

http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/dissertations/AAI3210789/

Seems this should help with chelating too.


Pat
post #616 of 850
Also, found this:

"N-acetylcysteine (NAC) and glutathione are considered beneficial in mercury toxicity, but recent studies have shown that they seem to increase the passage of mercury into the nervous system. They may not be good to use for cases of mercury toxicity.


Zinc and selenium seem to be neuroprotective in cases of mercury toxicity. Patients with symptoms of “mercury amalgam illness” tend to have lower selenium levels than do asymptomatic patients with amalgam.
Wheat bran has been shown to bind mercury and other metals. Apple pectin has been to shown to reduce the period of mercury toxicity in children and increase its urinary excretion. "


http://www.rainbow.coop/nutritionall...tegories/wheat


Pat
post #617 of 850
Tanya or anyone else: I got the results for my hair test, and I was a bit surprised. I had tons of dental work done and vaccines... and my results show low in some minerals but nothing in the toxic zones, while my oldest son 4 years old is toxic.

Did I give him all my toxic elements???

My test result is 261, and my son is 224.

Thank you for any info.
Ana
post #618 of 850
Here's how I understand it: our kids, particularly our first kids, get a good chunk of our toxic load, but not all. I think our kids, particularly the first, end up with a higher toxic load in proportion to their size because they can't excrete in the usual ways while in utero (no poop, and urine goes back into the amniotic fluid, so it's not leaving the environment), plus our bodies are built to transfer minerals to them, and along with, say, the big transfer of iron in the last trimester, our kids get some of our heavy metals (and various odd chemicals) too. It can get tricky for later kids though--pregnancy and nursing are very demanding, nutritionally, so later kids tend to get fewer nutrients anyway, and the balance of less toxins than kid #1 but fewer nutrients to use to deal with it, and I don't know of a hard-and-fast rule on how that affects them.

Without the context of your son, and your concerns, your test on its own doesn't look particularly strange/worrisome. For me, in understanding what's going on with me and the kids, it has taken putting us all together and considering us as a unit, so I think that's valuable in your case as well (I think it's valuable for everyone, really).

I'm guessing that you aren't excreting well, possibly/probably due to the nutritional demands of pregnancy and nursing. The things like silver and tin being a bit elevated in your son's test are fairly normal for amalgam-source mercury, and from you seems like the most likely route of exposure, so based on your situation, I'd guess you're fairly depleted, nutritionally (not from eating junk, I doubt you do, but starting off childbearing already imbalanced, and then add on the demands of kids, it's a whole lot). And your were probably nursing when you were growing this hair, right? That makes things murkier. But I still think context (our overall health, the health of our kids, etc) is key.

Take a look at tests 184 and 185. 185 fails 2 rules, and the total toxic load is less than yours--he's not excreting well (my dad). But 184 doesn't fail any rules, and her toxic load is quite similar. The context of her health issues (basically the same as mine) and being related to me (my mom), make that low toxic load worrisome and makes mercury more likely. But if she had no health problems that seemed mercury-related, and wasn't related to me, it would mean nothing.

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/heali.../hairtest.html

Have you asked for opinions on the frequent dose chelation yahoo group? They can help with things like ratios between sodium, potassium, calcium, mag, like that--I can look it up if you want, I just don't know it off the top of my head. It can give good insight into how your adrenals are (mine are still sorta pathetic, but I think still improving), and a few other things.

One thing--your son's lead being so much higher than yours--I haven't read that it's common for lead to _not_ show up if it's there (apparently in some fairly rare cases, that can happen, but it's not typical) so I'd consider a separate exposure for your son (separate from you, I mean). You've probably already put in some thought, I saw your post on the lead thread in H&H, but I think most of the people there are experienced with results from blood tests, and if the exposure isn't very, very recent, I'm not sure it'll show up in bloodwork.
post #619 of 850
Hello, wise chelating mamas!

I haven't stopped by to visit this thread in quite a while. I hope all your chelating journeys are going well?


So, I've been agonizing over my 9 mercury amalgams for about a year now. Every time I start to think about them again, I get so depressed and worried that I can't sleep or function.

I officially tested NOT mercury toxic according to Cutler's counting rules, but I have so many of the symptoms of mercury poisoning. And I feel like the illnesses that mercury might be causing me are seriously compromising the quality of my life.

I'm absolutely terrified of the prospect of having my amalgams removed, but I don't know if I can stand having them in my mouth anymore...
post #620 of 850
Perhaps some dumb questions...

Is everybody still ordering their hair tests from directlabs.com?

Is it OK to give directlabs a fake name and fake birth date?

What does this statement from their website mean: "Please confirm you have verified a lab near you for this set of tests." ?
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