Chelating mamas? - Page 34

[Pattyla]

To be clear I am not chelating myself right now. I am taking iodine which may be mobolizing toxins and NCD to soak up any circulating mercury. I also take liver life, cell food, thorne multi, dr rons calcium, gensing, a thyroid support formula, vitamin D hmmm not sure what else.
I have constant diahrea that now imodium won't control completely. I have no idea how I would figure out my vitamin C needs.
Salt often helps my fatigue but not completely. Yesterday I curled up on the couch and fell asleep mid afternoon while my dh was talking to me and my girls were making a loud racket. Today I just left a festival I look forward to all year to come home and nap.
That said my toddler is now napping and I will join her.
Fwiw my head/ thinking is currently clear but I'm just ready for bed mid afternoon nearly every day. A bit better than fighting the brain fog all day but equally hard to get much accomplished. If anyone has ideas on what may help that I'm all ears.

[Poddi]

Hi, I haven't read through this huge thread yet, just wondering if anybody knows about this thing called "Porphyra-Zyme"? I just got this from my naturopath and she assured me it's quite safe. I've never done any sort of chelating before and don't really know what to expect.

The ingredients seem pretty harmless, though I don't know how they work to pull heavy metals. "vitamin C, spinach extract, mulberry extract, beet leaf powder, vegetable culture concentrate".

*I had 3 almagam fillings for the past 17 years. All three have been replaced in the last few months. My dentist didn't use any special measures to protect me. I'm also a fish and seafood lover, which probably didn't help with the mercury level. We didn't get any testing done yet.

[Toolip]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

To be clear I am not chelating myself right now. I am taking iodine which may be mobolizing toxins and NCD to soak up any circulating mercury. I also take liver life, cell food, thorne multi, dr rons calcium, gensing, a thyroid support formula, vitamin D hmmm not sure what else.

What is NCD?

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

To be clear I am not chelating myself right now. I am taking iodine which may be mobolizing toxins and NCD to soak up any circulating mercury. I also take liver life, cell food, thorne multi, dr rons calcium, gensing, a thyroid support formula, vitamin D hmmm not sure what else.
I have constant diahrea that now imodium won't control completely. I have no idea how I would figure out my vitamin C needs.
Salt often helps my fatigue but not completely. Yesterday I curled up on the couch and fell asleep mid afternoon while my dh was talking to me and my girls were making a loud racket. Today I just left a festival I look forward to all year to come home and nap.
That said my toddler is now napping and I will join her.
Fwiw my head/ thinking is currently clear but I'm just ready for bed mid afternoon nearly every day. A bit better than fighting the brain fog all day but equally hard to get much accomplished. If anyone has ideas on what may help that I'm all ears.

NCD is zeolite, which mobilizes toxins.

[Toolip]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

NCD is zeolite, which mobilizes toxins.

Ahh, thanks. So why is it not considered a chelator?

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Toolip

Ahh, thanks. So why is it not considered a chelator?

that is an excellent question to which i look forward to hearing an answer.

[mamafish9]

Haven't chimed in on this thread before, I usually hide out in allergies - but I did want to say that we are using zeolite for DS, and it is a confirmed chelator for him.

Because of this, I consider it a substance that needs to be taken carefully - we use a Cutler like protocol (every 4 hours for 2.5 days on, 4.5 days off). I do two drops every four hours - 3 was too much for DS, his symptoms were too strong. I have pre and during zeolite pee tests confirming we are pulling metals (antimony in particular, which is his biggest load).

I don't think zeolite works for everyone, based on what I've read. But it definitely does for some. Which to me means - it is NOT safe for nursing mamas to take, NOT safe for people with amalgams to take, contrary to what the companies claim. The zeolite itself may be plenty safe, but the metals it can mobilize surely aren't.

Anyhow, thought I'd add that to the zeolite discussion in case anyone trips across this later...

[tanyalynn]

Just wanted to drop in for a short (or not ) update on us.

It's been 17 mos since I got my amalgams out and I am doing much better, much more functional, overall happier. I started chelating with DMSA soon after I got my amalgams out, and 3-4 mos after that I added in ALA. I eventually dropped the DMSA and didn't have any issues with ALA alone. Right now, my adrenals are still worn down, but I am staying up too late at night and have fallen back into the soda habit; a bit more willpower and I will fix both those and then I feel like I'll do great. But even with my bad habits, I am still feeling a lot better, I'm more energetic and doing more stuff with my kids.

Big things for me: gfcf, vitamin C flushes, and modifilan for headaches/body aches/stuff like that. "Stuff like that" didn't happen a lot, but the modifilan took care of my headache after I got my amalgams out, and a few times I've had headaches (first few rounds of DMSA), and the modifilan made them go away.

I think high or low sulfur diets are important, but since I do best on a high sulfur diet (lots of eggs, onions, garlic, though the list is much longer) I don't notice this as much. I think the people who need a low sulfur diet notice this more when they make changes. Better description of high and low sulfur diets and foods, including a food list.

The kids have been getting the usual biomed supps for 2.5 yrs now, and I should've been done chelating them long ago, but my brain was so fuzzy and impaired, everything has gone slower than it otherwise could have. This summer/fall, I've really gotten into a good rhythm with them. DS needed some rounds of DMSA alone at first, now I've added in ALA and I'm considering trying some rounds of ALA alone. Alternating between them, doing some DMSA alone, and then using both, and modifying that as I monitor how he's doing, has been really helpful.

DMSA (we use Thorne's DMSA, the product is called Captomer, it's sold in 100mg and 250mg capsules) is available online, and having it around has been great. I was scared of it at first, it's a real pharmaceutical drug, but it's a very useful tool in my toolbox.

I think I'll be half done chelating the kids by New Year's, we're doing rounds consistently now. Neither of my kids has delays compared to the typical developmental schedule, but I'm seeing subtle cognitive changes (small jumps) in both anyway. DD's moods are more even and she's more in control of herself. DS isn't having any symptoms during rounds, that probably means I can increase his dosage of ALA. I think I'm a bit gun-shy after that fateful round a year ago in the summer (>1yr ago now) but I think I just need to get over that.

I'm considering doing hair tests for all of us, maybe in February, just to have something tangible to look at to see progress. But DLS (Direct Lab Services) has a 10% off sale through Nov 30, 2009, on everything, not sure if that could be added onto the autism-mercury yahoo group discount they usually give (you need to call to order and mention the group's name). If you order, remember to get the Hair Elements test (plain, boring name) NOT the Toxic Hair Exposure profile. To get the discount, you need to order the hair test by Nov 30 (they need name/gender/age of person getting tested) but then you can return it to them whenever you like.

I think I've got about 6 more months and I'll be done. I can do 100mg rounds of ALA with no symptoms now, I feel fine, so I'm stepping more into the "detox world," stuff that would've seriously, seriously impaired me a year or two (or five) ago. It's humbling to realize the huge gulf that existed (and to some extent, still exists) between me and more normal people. I'm using a Perque detox product, I can take one or two tablets per day when I'm chelating (remember, I've got extra ALA bopping around to help with mobilized metals--I don't have symptoms/problems due to the ALA anymore so it's easier for me to do this when I'm chelating than when I'm not) and I can really feel the effects. My DH took 2/day for 3 months and felt fine, absolutely nothing. Nothing. He inherently detoxifies well (very well), and I detoxify poorly. The difference is astounding.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

NCD is zeolite, which mobilizes toxins.

Originally Posted by Toolip

Ahh, thanks. So why is it not considered a chelator?

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

that is an excellent question to which i look forward to hearing an answer.

This is timely, there's a discussion on the adult metal chelation yahoo group right now. Andy Cutler participates there sometimes, but other (non-DMSA/DMPS/ALA) chelation methods are also allowed to be discussed. Waiora recently shared a study, Cutler feels it's suspicious (the data, I mean), others have similar experiences as mamafish.

To me, it looks like it mobilizes, and since I feel more comfortable with the knowledge base that exists for DMSA and ALA, that's what I'm using. I think there are a lot of things that mobilize metals, things besides DMSA and ALA probably can be safe, but choosing one that you think you can use safely and that is appropriate for your situation, is the big choice.

The thing is, whatever you use, if you choose to move metals, it's likely because you feel your health (or a loved one's health) has been negatively affected already by them. They can cause harm, so deliberately moving them out is a process that should be respected. People have gotten sicker and risk management is an important part of this.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

This is timely, there's a discussion on the adult metal chelation yahoo group right now. Andy Cutler participates there sometimes, but other (non-DMSA/DMPS/ALA) chelation methods are also allowed to be discussed. Waiora recently shared a study, Cutler feels it's suspicious (the data, I mean), others have similar experiences as mamafish.

To me, it looks like it mobilizes, and since I feel more comfortable with the knowledge base that exists for DMSA and ALA, that's what I'm using. I think there are a lot of things that mobilize metals, things besides DMSA and ALA probably can be safe, but choosing one that you think you can use safely and that is appropriate for your situation, is the big choice.

I agree with Cutler that the study isn't worth a whole lot - it was done by people who work for the company, and just like pharma studies, I don't give those a whole lot of credit.

I think zeolite doesn't mobilize for everyone - I've read estimates of 25% or so. I like it because it's tasteless, and trying to dose a 2.5 year old who is non-verbal (autistic) with something that tastes bad would be really challenging. But I give the zeolite respect, treat it as a true chelating agent, watch the symptoms. There's less data available on how long it stays in your body, so I tried every 4 hours and played with that to see what time interval seemed to keep DS steadiest. Ironically, it's about 4 hours (shorter by a bit is OK, longer and I see symptoms).

On, and on ordering from direct labs - you can order online and just write in the message box that you are a member of the autism mercury yahoo group, please apply the discount, and they do.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

On, and on ordering from direct labs - you can order online and just write in the message box that you are a member of the autism mercury yahoo group, please apply the discount, and they do.

Good to hear about the other stuff, and yay about this, I had no idea!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

I agree with Cutler that the study isn't worth a whole lot - it was done by people who work for the company, and just like pharma studies, I don't give those a whole lot of credit.

I think zeolite doesn't mobilize for everyone - I've read estimates of 25% or so. I like it because it's tasteless, and trying to dose a 2.5 year old who is non-verbal (autistic) with something that tastes bad would be really challenging. But I give the zeolite respect, treat it as a true chelating agent, watch the symptoms. There's less data available on how long it stays in your body, so I tried every 4 hours and played with that to see what time interval seemed to keep DS steadiest. Ironically, it's about 4 hours (shorter by a bit is OK, longer and I see symptoms).

Agreed. It did something for us, and we saw major movement each time we started a course, but it didn't do much for our profiles. I think it helped to decrease the toxic load and perhaps some circulating metals....but I don't think in our case that it actually chelated. Could be wrong though. However, it's still important to be cautious.

I wouldn't trust that study either.

[tanyalynn]

I'm confused about the distinction you're making.

Would you describe chelating as getting metals out of tissues? So if it wasn't tissues, and you're only saying perhaps to circulating metals, then what's your best guess as to what it was doing? And why did it cause improvement?

Fascinating topic.

[Panserbjorne]

IT is fascinating and weird all at the same time. What I know is that we used it and saw clear changes each time we started. As in each time I got moody, irritable and my face totally broke out. It had an affect. My daughter's skin also got worse. However it never changed our metal profiles. So, what DID it do? I'm not sure.

I'd say that I briefly increased the burden on my liver and kidneys while taking it, so that's something. In theory I do think it's possible that it was able to move free metals, or already mobilized metals in our cases, but I don't think that it acted like DMSA or ALA. It's also possible it did prevent metals from being stored that otherwise would have.

Chelating is technically getting metals out of the body, and it may well have done that. I dont' know. I was not measuring what was circulating vs. what was stored. I just think if it did move what was stored I would have seen evidence on one of our tests.

I like using zeolite, it makes me feel better. However it didn't help on our quest for reducing metals on it's own. Once I added the isodes I did notice a shift though. So I suspect that what the isodes mobilized the zeolites assisted in carrying out.

[mamafish9]

I've heard similar stories from other people. For some, it acts as a yeast fighter, which clears metals from the gut (that probably aren't measured in typical metals profiles). For others, it seems to have a beneficial effect (or side effects) without moving metals. For us, I have pee tests confirming it is vacuum sucking antimony out of my child (like at 10-15x the rate he was excreting it on his own) - and I see clear evidence his antimony load is coming down (his mag utilization is way less compromised now, and his mag/b6 needs come down each time we do a round).

I think we're starting to pull something else though - last zeolite round, he had this totally nasty white coating on his tongue, which is new (and went away when we stopped the round). I've upped his vitC, and we're back on dairy (more calcium), so I'm hopeful maybe we're getting rid of some lead now. I have a pee test to do again tomorrow, and I will be running a new urine porphyrins test in another few rounds, to see if we've decreased his total metals load (particularly arsenic) as measured by that test.

I don't know if zeolite will get rid of everything for us or not. I know it's pulling antimony, which was DS' worst load, and one that DMSA apparently doesn't touch, so we'll keep doing it until I don't see evidence of any more antimony impairment. But I still don't know if zeolite will address his lead or cadmium (both a lot lower, but still of concern). So I stay open to the idea we may eventually move on to something else to help with the chelating.

[xtara2003x]

Amalgam removal, TTC, weaning, OSR?

Hi Mamas!! This might be cross posted a few different places since it kind of incorporates a lot of different areas!!

I *really* need some advice/support/opinions!!!

Here's the background:

I'm 24 years old. My DH and I have one daughter who's 2.5 years old and she is still nursing. I have always pretty much planned on her weaning when SHE was ready. I've been fine with the amount she nurses. She nurses about 3 times a day right now. In the morning, once in the afternoon, and an hour or so before bed.

The situation:

I have 10 mercury amalgam fillings. We want to be pregnant in the near future very badly. I was tested with a Urine Toxic Metals test by my chiro and it showed that I have the highest level of lead that is still considered in "normal" range, and to me that seems pretty high. The second highest heavy metal is mercury, and then nickel.

DD has several cavities. Chiro thinks her teeth may be weak as well as her bones because my fillings might be causing the mercury to pass to DD, in which the lead in the fillings is being leached and replacing DD's bone strength. Regular mainstream Dentist wanted to do General anesthesia for DD in a hospital and put crowns and fillings in them. We got a second opinion, and found a holistic dentist who does ozone treatments and was so glad we didn't do the crowns (they contain nickel).

I'm struggling because I KNOW that there are two times when the body is exposed to high amounts of mercury: when putting amalgam fillings in the mouth, and then when taking them out (as well as any time you eat or drink anything hot).

The thing is, in order to have them removed, I'd have to wean my daughter!! I don't even really know *how* to wean since I never thought I'd really have to DO anything.

I'd have to get the fillings taken out and replaced during 3-4 appointments, and I'd have to be taking supplements to help me detox while I am doing it (chiro wants to put me on OSR#1).

This is why I'd have to wean...because they simply can't remove the fillings in one visit, and because I obviously don't want to pass on any mercury to my daughter!

The opinions/help I'm looking for:

1. If you were me, 24 years old (plenty of time to have more children), 10 mercury fillings, 2.5 year old still nursing a few times a day, wanting to be pregnant and expand your family, would you suck it up and wean your 2.5 year old in order to get the fillings removed to not harm your future children?

2. Would you wait until you finished having children to have the mercury fillings removed? My other fear is that I will get my fillings removed and yet not chelate the mercury out of my body, and then I'd get pregnant with the mercury still at high levels in my body.

3. Is there anything I could do to dry my milk up completely and still allow my daughter to suckle for comfort - especially since she doesn't nurse very often and very long (the nutritional aspect of breastfeeding is something I can come to terms with easily, it's the psychological effect having her wean and stop before she is ready that would bother me. Bfing is such a part of the way I "mother" that I'd be kind of lost w/o it at times!)? Would medication to dry the milk up completely be an option - and I am SO not a medication person, but at this point I'm considering it!)?

4. Have any of you used OSR #1 by Boyd Haley? Any suggestions or advice on the safety of this? Chiro *thinks* it'd be safe to take while pregnant and nursing..but I am not so sure since the website says not to take if pregnant unless advised by doctor.

I guess these are my major questions. I'm hoping someone has advice, because I could really use some.

What would you do?

Thanks!

Tara

[tanyalynn]

Hi Tara,

Most of my story is scattered through this thread, so I'll skip that and I apologize in advance if I sound a bit abrupt. I do not mean to be, it's just that this journey has been hard on my whole family, and I do not agree with some of the advice from your HCP, it sounds unwise to me, and risky.

First, do you think that your health is being adversely impacted by your fillings? IMO there's a wide range of peoples' abilities to deal with mercury, combinations of genetic abilities and lifestyle/situational things that can make us more or less susceptible. My DH, for example, is not susceptible like I am at all.

You should join either the autism mercury yahoo group or the adult metal chelation group to read about OSR. IMO it's very new and there are other things available that are older and very well understood. If someone believes that heavy metals have gotten them sick, then safety in moving them out of the body is very, very important. And honestly, I would be very wary of a HCP who says that taking a chelator is fine while nursing, and especially while pregnant. OSR is really, really new--and wow, the downside of being wrong is huge. Huge. I think my son had coordination problems as an *infant* due to mercury exposure in-utero--I think your HCP is reckless to suggest this. And I wasn't doing anything to deliberately move metals during (or before) my pregnancy.

My answers to some things are in the thread--at age 33 I weaned my 21mo son to get my fillings out and chelate, it's been 18 mos now. My best guess is that there needs to be at least a 12 mo gap between getting the last amalgam out and TTC, but I think there's a real lack of data, so all I can do is guess based on what I read and what I experienced after I got my amalgams out. I'm hoping to have one or two more kids, and it'd be nice to not have to chelate more kids, two has been hard enough on all of us. Getting sick while having young children to care for is a real bummer.

[lisasaurus]

Tanya- can I ask what your symptoms were that have been helped by addressing your mercury issues?

[tanyalynn]

The health problems I've had that I think are related to my amalgams (roughly in order): enviro & seasonal allergies, adrenal fatigue, anxiety (low-level, constant), depression (intermittent, helped with SSRIs), hypothyroid. The adrenal fatigue started early, but didn't get obvious until very late in the game.

Getting my fillings out and chelating helped with my mood quite a bit. I'm not sure if I would've been considered depressed when I started this--I didn't think I was at the time (I wasn't taking SSRIs at that time), and it's hard to evaluate depression when you've got real problems, but my overall outlook was somewhat grim and narrowly focused. I noticed a significant change at 5 mos post amalgam removal. I looked around one day and suddenly realized I felt happy, I felt joy again. It was a big improvement in outlook that affected my whole family.

My fatigue is quite a bit better. At this point, me staying up late is my biggest problem--before, even when I was really good about going to bed early and eating snacks regularly, I was still dragging, and now I am much closer to normal. My thinking is much, much clearer--I am more functional, a lot more. I was barely getting through the day and really couldn't think very clearly. Making good decisions was, well, a crapshoot.

I dealt with my hypothyroidism with nutritional supplements and saw improvements there, but that was before I knew my amalgams were an issue, so I still had general fatigue and adrenal issues, and it's hard to separate everything out. I'm just taking a high dose, broad-spectrum vit/min supps right now (nothing specifically for my thyroid) and I'm not at all cold anymore, no brain fog, I don't think I'm having any thyroid symptoms anymore. Some improvement definitely just came from vit/min pills, I really can't say how much/how many of my thyroid symptoms have improved since I got my amalgams out--a lot has changed in the past 1.5 yrs.

The low level anxiety is still here, since it was one of the first things to start for me, I'm assuming it'll be one of the last to go. And I still have low level enviro allergies, again they were an early onset, I assume they'll be one of the last things to go.

[lisasaurus]

Thank you for sharing, Tanya. I'm so glad to hear you are feeling so much relief from the work that you are doing. It helps bolster my resolve to take care of things as well.

I had a horrible conversation with my sister today. She is usually pretty supportive of me. But with this, she has basically decided its just a conspiracy between the naturopath and the holistic dentist. I wanted to hang up the phone so many times, it was so frustrating. I just wish she would do just the smallest amount of research about it before declaring it "snake oil" and a waste of my time and money.