Chelating mamas? - Page 35

[tanyalynn]

I'm sorry you had such a bad call with your sister. When we feel so bad, and have had to look so far afield to figure out what's going on, not being supported is hard. I'm sure there have been skeptical people in my family, but no one has given me flak for any of this. Maybe she's just concerned that, although she knows you feel bad, this will not help, and you'll suffer losing time and money and have your hopes dashed. Also, I'm not sure if it crossed her mind that if _you_ are susceptible to stuff like this, then it's more likely she is, too. Not sure if she's thought this out that far.

I know, when my HCP told me she knew why I felt so bad, and she explained, I thought she was reaching. While I would've granted that many things are possible in theory, I was pretty sure something this weird did not apply to me. Took me some reading on my own (and I was motivated, I felt pretty bad) to realize that this stuff _really_ exists, and happens to normal people.

Anyway, for the bad call.

[lisasaurus]

my husband unleashed his skepticism last night. He is mainly concerned that i'm going to put all my eggs in this one basket... like these procedures will be a cure-all. which is not my mindset at all. it IS my mindset however, that i would very much like to get this lead and mercury that is POISONING me out of my body. I don't think that is too much to ask.

its such a hard spot to be in, paying for all of this out of pocket... feeling so helpless because i am a stay at home mom not contributing any money to the family, yet asking so much. sucks.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by lisasaurus

my husband unleashed his skepticism last night. He is mainly concerned that i'm going to put all my eggs in this one basket... like these procedures will be a cure-all. which is not my mindset at all. it IS my mindset however, that i would very much like to get this lead and mercury that is POISONING me out of my body. I don't think that is too much to ask.

its such a hard spot to be in, paying for all of this out of pocket... feeling so helpless because i am a stay at home mom not contributing any money to the family, yet asking so much. sucks.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

To be clear I am not chelating myself right now. I am taking iodine which may be mobolizing toxins and NCD to soak up any circulating mercury. I also take liver life, cell food, thorne multi, dr rons calcium, gensing, a thyroid support formula, vitamin D hmmm not sure what else.
I have constant diahrea that now imodium won't control completely. I have no idea how I would figure out my vitamin C needs.
Salt often helps my fatigue but not completely. Yesterday I curled up on the couch and fell asleep mid afternoon while my dh was talking to me and my girls were making a loud racket. Today I just left a festival I look forward to all year to come home and nap.
That said my toddler is now napping and I will join her.
Fwiw my head/ thinking is currently clear but I'm just ready for bed mid afternoon nearly every day. A bit better than fighting the brain fog all day but equally hard to get much accomplished. If anyone has ideas on what may help that I'm all ears.

Dr. Brownstein claims urine testing shows iodine mobilizes mercury but he seems to be the only one presenting this info. All I know is that I get the way you describe when I take any more than a few mg. of iodine per day... like the worst fatigue in the world! No amount of Celtic sea salt flushes help. Did you see the recent B12 discussion in The Iodine Thread? I wonder if methyl donors would help you.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by lisasaurus

my husband unleashed his skepticism last night. He is mainly concerned that i'm going to put all my eggs in this one basket... like these procedures will be a cure-all. which is not my mindset at all. it IS my mindset however, that i would very much like to get this lead and mercury that is POISONING me out of my body. I don't think that is too much to ask.

its such a hard spot to be in, paying for all of this out of pocket... feeling so helpless because i am a stay at home mom not contributing any money to the family, yet asking so much. sucks.

Sit with it for a bit, you will know your right path.

[JaneS]

Pattyla,

Also magnesium, magnesium, magnesium!!

If I ever stop my transdermal mag (baths or oil) regimen, my body tells me for sure. That, probiotics, and mega vitamin D has gotta be the most significant life changing advice I have ever come across.

Magnesium, in addition to calming you down, also contributes to the production of ATP: the body's energy component.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by lisasaurus

my husband unleashed his skepticism last night. He is mainly concerned that i'm going to put all my eggs in this one basket... like these procedures will be a cure-all. which is not my mindset at all. it IS my mindset however, that i would very much like to get this lead and mercury that is POISONING me out of my body. I don't think that is too much to ask.

its such a hard spot to be in, paying for all of this out of pocket... feeling so helpless because i am a stay at home mom not contributing any money to the family, yet asking so much. sucks.

This thing is hard on the spouse and honestly hard on a marriage. First, us getting sick and not finding answers the normal way, so they feel helpless, and then, at least for most of us, having to consider something totally outside our comfort zone. My DH, for one, wouldn't have been one to get into alternative medicine on his own. I'm sure he's had skepticism, mostly based on concern for me, for my physical and mental/emotional well-being, but he's not the type to bring it up except in a roundabout way.

By this point, DH and I are closer than before and I feel like we could weather anything now. But there were months when I was angry and frustrated, with him and the world, and I just felt like we were slogging through. I was grimly focused on getting well. I didn't feel close to him, somehow we just endured. Any outside help you can get, in whatever way--someone to help with kids occasionally, or help with household stuff, will help. My mom came to visit several times, it was a blessing. Anything that can take some day-to-day stress off the two of you will help.

Hey, in terms of concrete stuff. Separate from the manner of chelation, things that have helped me:

1. adrenal support -- the process of getting sick really thrashed on my adrenals, and a combo of lifestyle stuff (no gluten/dairy, no caffeine, snacks to deal with blood sugar crashes, to bed ridiculously early, daily vitamin C (vitC's important for adrenals in particular), and adrenal supps) helped me get through the days near the beginning. Not a miracle, I still had a lot of fatigue, but I was doing a bit better.

2. Vitamin C flushes like this Perque document describes. Check into the company, they make high-quality supps, even corn-free (check each individual supp if it matters to you), and I'm glad they have this document in the public domain.

http://www.perque.com/pdfs/Pt_Ascorbate_Slush_FIN.pdf

I did this either the day I got my amalgams out or the next day (can't remember now), it physically flushes toxins out. I did them before I got my amalgams out too and each time I'd do it, the amount of vitamin C I'd need to get to bowel tolerance would drop by about 15 grams. I started around 44 grams (my body used that much every day), and then with these flushes, plus taking bowel tolerance vitC every day, that slowly decreased, and I was down to 4-5 grams per day before I got my amalgams out. Chelating (anything to mobilize metals) will make that number go up, and these flushes help keep it down, they helped minimize re-distribution problems and I think did a lot to help prevent slow build-up type issues due to chelating. That seems to be a common problem with chelation, and I think this is why I didn't experience that.

When I'm chelating, I do these 24-36 hrs after I take my last pill. The one time I didn't, icky mood issues started. Play with the timing, I've found 10am for my last pill and then 6pm the NEXT day to do my flush (the doc says to do them on an empty stomach, good advice, but I can't do them first thing in the morning, I need food, so I eat lunch and then don't snack in the afternoon and that works for me).

3. High-dose vit/min supplements. I had already started matching my specific health conditions to vit/min deficiencies (thyroid, depression), so this part made a lot of sense to me. People who have issues like this get really low on detoxification nutrients (which starts first, I don't know), but things like folate, B12, mag, zinc, C, we tend to be really low. Stuff like vits D & A get thrown off, but I think that's more a result of the health issues, though it then can spiral and cause new issues. I've lived on lots of supps for several years now--I think maybe next year I'll be done.

4. Modifilan. It's a seaweed product, I used it to stop the headache I got after I got my amalgams out, and at various other times. It can be used daily, I give it to the kids daily and love it, but for financial reasons I only use it myself right now if I am in an acute situation (more near the beginning, not an issue for me now).

Oh, and speaking of finances, yeah, it sucks. I used to be employed, I was an engineer. We'd always planned for me to stay home eventually, but not this timing, which was due to my health deteriorating. I hear ya on the money. We haven't saved any money in years now, and we've used a good chunk of our rainy day fund; I keep reminding myself, THIS is our rainy day, this is what we saved for. I'm just grateful we've been able to swing this this long, and now the end is in sight for me and the kids.

[ameliabelle]

please help, have so many questions and no answers!

Hello, I am new here, but have gone back and read all the posts on this thread since 2004. You ladies no so much, and I would greatly appreciate and help or advice, or even just opinions as to the situation I am in. Here's my problem. I am 25, live a healthy, active lifestyle and have never had a health issue. My husband and I want to start TTC, so I decided to have 5 of my 6 amalgam fillings replaced. I couldn't have the 6th one done, because it will need to have a crown put on, and I can't afford that. I went to a merc free dentist. He told me when he was finished that I could go ahead and start TTC immediatley, as no mercury was released into my system durring replacement. It wasn't unitl after I had this done that I learned that if you are going to TTC, you should leave your fillings alone. I don't know what course of action to take now. I ordered a Hair Elements test from DDI, but I have donr a chelation in the past, and got so so sick. All the Nd's I have spoken with want me to do the Urine Challenge test, and my husband does not want me taking anything that will provoke the mercury, and he is also totally against chelation. This is my question: if my hair test comes back okay, how long should we wait until we conceive? We want to do this ASAP, but I don't want to get pregnant without a clean conscience of course! I would love any help I can get, as I'm losing sleep over this, and it's causing a rift between hubby and me. Thanks!!!

[tanyalynn]

When you say you did chelation in the past, what exactly did you do? There's a lot of stuff out there that's a bad idea to do, but feeling bad implies that metals were mobilized but not excreted, so that's not great-sounding.

I think there's a risk evaluation based here. I don't think anyone really knows the answers to your questions, but there are some things to consider.

1. Family history--what type of things are people in your family prone to? This goes toward figuring out if it's likely that you have a tendency to excrete mercury poorly. Some people do great, most, I think, are somewhere in the middle, and some of us do it pretty poorly, and oftentimes the conditions and illnesses people in our family are prone to help tease that out. You can read at frequent dose chelation or iaomt.org about the types of health problems mercury typically causes.

2. What does "never had a health issue" mean? Are you thinking of serious health issues like MS or cancer, or minor stuff like pollen allergies and eczema?

3. It does seem that after a person removes all their amalgams, a balance can shift in their bodies and our bodies start mobilizing more than before. But what does that mean for a person who's removed 5/6 of their amalgams? I don't know if anyone knows, and this may be the biggest question for you.

4. Your dentist was wrong. Flat-out. Apparently quite a few believe that though. Even with the best removal protocol, you got extra mercury that day. The problem there is that it takes a sick person who's marginal on nutrients to feel bad due to the extra mercury, AND they need to connect the headache/body aches/flu-like feelings to the dental work they just had done AND they need to tell their dentist. But as far as I know, that mercury should settle into your body or be excreted within a fairly short time period, I think in less than a month, maybe less than a week. The bigger risk is whether that shifts a balance overall in your body, and I don't know if anyone knows about that.

Short-term, extra nutrients will help. A multivit with folate (Thorne has a few that have real folate, not folic acid), maybe extra magnesium, zinc, B12, like that. Folate's important for detoxification (methylation, specifically) and it's important to baby-making, NTDs, other midline issues. If you have a healthcare provider, a blood test for folate and B12 wouldn't hurt (though I'd look up how wide the reference range is, sometimes you want to be near the top of ranges rather than just in the range).

[Manonash]

Hi y'all.
Ameliabelle, I've replied to you toward the end of the post.

It's been a while since I posted. I am about 4wks past amalgam removal. I've been through 3rounds of chelation with DMSA using Andy Cutler's protocol. The first two rounds with 12.5mg and the 3rd with 25mg. I thought I was having a reaction the first round, but turned out to be to something else. I cannot describe the difference in how good I feel. I realize I'm in the honeymoon phase, but still..... this gives me a LOT of hope. I had a LOT of work done. I had 14 amalgams removed and 1 glass ionomer. 7 of the amalgams had crowns over them, and the glass ionomer did too. I have one root canal that is still got to come out. I ended up in the ER a couple of days after my first removal due to dehydration. I think I was dehydrated going into the dental procedure and the IV Vit C shoved me over the edge. That much sodium being pushed through my kidneys at once would take quite a bit of water with it. I didn't use the IV C for the second and last visit, and felt great even though it was just as much work as the first. (Did both left quads first visit, and both right the second. Just worked out the charges allowed for that, so I didn't need to do 4 appts and could do 2). Anyway. I can't explain the change in energy level and feeling of well being I have. I'm a little worried that I feel pretty much nothing when chelating or when stopping the round. I'm not sure I'll know when to stop if I have not symptoms. I wonder though if that will change though when I start the ALA. Hmmmm.

I can completely understand where you all are coming from talking about the money issues. This is expensive! We saved for quite a while to pay for it. In my case, it was worth every dime we payed. Not only was the mercury playing a significant role in my health problems, but if I had waited much longer, the decay under the old amalgams would have reached the pulp and I would have lost several of my teeth (since I don't believe in root canals). He showed me the brown spots in the mirror. It was kinda scary looking. Anyway, before I went in though, I was praying so hard that it would work. I worried that if we payed all that money and nothing changed, I would have somehow crossed a line and proven my hypochondria to the world. I figured my DH would have been done, and that would have been the last straw. It turns out he wouldn't have been done and it wouldn't have been, but I felt that way... another SAHM, spending hubby's hard-earned money on a guess. At the point I had the removal done, though, he also believed that my teeth were probably a large part of the cause of my problems, but was more worried that I was going to get sicker in the process of removal. He was really nervous the days of my revisions.

Ameliabelle: A couple of things crossed my mind while reading your post. What chelator did you use and how did you use it? Did you use Andy Cutler's protocol, was it IV...? And, you still have an amalgam in. I fall into the camp of people who thinks that chelating with an amalgam in can harm you, and that may have been why you felt such redistribution. Dosage, timing, and type of chelator can make a huge difference in redistribution symptoms. IMpersonalO, Andy Cutler's protocol is the best -- low and slow. Also, as Tanya said, removing mercury from your teeth can cause your organsto start dumping it. The dumping reactions usually happen a few months later I believe. I've heard stories about people having a regression of symptoms about the 4month mark or so and at about 9 months. I'd have to check my Amalgam Illness book to be sure on those times though. As for getting pregnant, the advice I saw was to wait about 18mths post removal to start trying. I'm not sure why this mark, and am not sure that date is accurate whether chelating or not or whether chelation makes a difference there. And, if you don't chelate at all, I'm not sure how this affects that number.

Hope to catch up with you all soon. Between now feeling well enough to do stuff, the holidays, and trying to stay off the computer as much, I may not post much, but wanted to touch base with you again.

Happy chelating!
Shonda

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Manonash

I can't explain the change in energy level and feeling of well being I have.

Yay! I felt better, both the day the last of the amalgams came out and that first few months. Savor this time, keep chelating, but also try to relax and rest your body. Your body is doing a lot of work now, and it'll be doing more in the upcoming months.

I'm a little worried that I feel pretty much nothing when chelating or when stopping the round. I'm not sure I'll know when to stop if I have not symptoms. I wonder though if that will change though when I start the ALA. Hmmmm.



Happy chelating!
Shonda

I found chelating with DMSA pretty easy too. ALA was really different, it was harder, I could tell it was doing more. One good indicator for me has been how much vitamin C I need to get to bowel tolerance. I take it every day 3x/day, it's good for adrenals and good for helping get toxins out on an ongoing basis, and the difference between how much I need on a normal day vs a chelating day is an indication of how much is being mobilized for me. ALA on a per-milligram basis mobilizes more and I see my vitamin C need go higher than the same amount of DMSA.

Someday, the ALA won't be pulling hardly any metals out, and then I think my vitamin C need won't budge, even taking high doses.

Over time, I've felt better/fine with higher doses of ALA (yesterday I started my first round trying 200mg, which is high, but I'd done a lot of rounds at 100mg and felt fine/normal), but that was a gradual process.

Let us know how things go, okay?

[Manonash]

Yeah, so far the only problem I've had with the DMSA chelation is the 3:00am dose. I've got a neck massager hooked to a Christmas light timer; I put the massager on the bed with me to wake me up at the right times. But, that thing blows me outta bed every time it goes off. I wake up too much and have trouble going back to sleep. I finally get back to sleep around 6:00 only to be blown outta bed again at 7:00a. I've got a vibrating watch on order; hopefully it won't be as forceful as the neck massager has been.

That's interesting to know about the Vit C. I don't tolerate it very well and have a low bowel tolerance (about 2000mg). I wonder if I need a beet source C .... maybe it's the corn.

Shonda

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Manonash

Yeah, so far the only problem I've had with the DMSA chelation is the 3:00am dose. I've got a neck massager hooked to a Christmas light timer; I put the massager on the bed with me to wake me up at the right times. But, that thing blows me outta bed every time it goes off. I wake up too much and have trouble going back to sleep. I finally get back to sleep around 6:00 only to be blown outta bed again at 7:00a. I've got a vibrating watch on order; hopefully it won't be as forceful as the neck massager has been.

That's interesting to know about the Vit C. I don't tolerate it very well and have a low bowel tolerance (about 2000mg). I wonder if I need a beet source C .... maybe it's the corn.

Shonda

I've heard of sago palm C but not beet. Do you have a brand name?

[Manonash]

I'm sorry -- I don't. I've just heard of it and haven't tried locating it, but thought I might try if it I thought it would make a difference. The type IV NaAscorbate my dentist used was beet source. I'll have to ask him where he gets his and if it is available in the non-IV form (which I thought was just the same as the IV form, but I may be mistaken). I had a bad experience with that VitC, but I think it was from the amount (10g) in the time frame given that was a problem for me though and not the source. I tend to dehydrate easily, and my guess as to what happened is that my kidneys had to process the excess sodium, and wherever sodium goes, so goes the water, so I dehydrated further than I was to start with.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Manonash

I'm sorry -- I don't. I've just heard of it and haven't tried locating it, but thought I might try if it I thought it would make a difference. The type IV NaAscorbate my dentist used was beet source. I'll have to ask him where he gets his and if it is available in the non-IV form (which I thought was just the same as the IV form, but I may be mistaken). I had a bad experience with that VitC, but I think it was from the amount (10g) in the time frame given that was a problem for me though and not the source. I tend to dehydrate easily, and my guess as to what happened is that my kidneys had to process the excess sodium, and wherever sodium goes, so goes the water, so I dehydrated further than I was to start with.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it. I was just thinking that all of the corn-free ladies in the allergies forum would love to have more than one option for vitamin C. If you find out that it is available in non-IV form, I'd surely love to know.

[Manonash]

http://www.shopwiki.com/_Buffered+Vi...84522&s=40040&
It is ascorbic acid buffered with carbonates of calcium, potassium, and magnesium.

http://www.thebestlittlevitaminshop....e240grams.aspx
looks like it may be the same formula as the above link, but not sure.

http://www.easyhealthzone.com/Produc...L0012&click=71
again, looks like a similar formula (maybe the same product as the first link?)

http://www.nextag.com/Allergy-Resear...35/prices-html
cassava root source. Also, ascorbic acid with potassium, magnesium, and calcium carbonates to buffer.

http://www.ihealthtree.com/buffered-...tricology.html
more cassava. same ascorbic acid with potassium, magnesium, and calcium carbonates.

http://www.vitacost.com/NutriCology-...C-713947542709
one more cassava source. same ascorbic acid with potassium, magnesium, and calcium carbonates.

I don't think these can be used to bowel tolerance due to the calcium and potassium in the products and possibly the form of C. I would think that the calcium would artificially elevate the bowel tolerance, and the potassium would not be safe to take in those doses. (I'm scared of messing around with supplemental potassium). Also, these are ascorbic acid and not sodium ascorbate so they may be quite irritating in higher doses despite the buffering carbonates.

The products all say something like 300 some odd grams. That's TOTAL. The actual AA in them ranges from about 2000mg to ~2500mg, the rest is the mineral carbonates for buffering. I know I saw one of the products say something about each of the minerals being about 1/2 of the RDA for that mineral per dose. I'd mainly want to know how much potassium I was getting.

I sent an email to my dentist to see if the one he used was sodium ascorbate or ascorbic acid and what brand he uses. He buffers his own with sodium bicarb, so the brand he uses may be ascorbic acid, but it may not be prebuffered so one could theoretically buffer it themselves (although I'm not sure about how to do that safely either. I know very little about Vit C). The beet source may not come in a sodium ascorbate form. I'm trying to find out. I thought the one he used was sodium ascorbate, but it may not have been.


Shonda

[sunnysandiegan]

I've only read the first two pages and now the last page of this thread, so please forgive me if this has already been mentioned....

What about acerola cherry powder for vitamin C?

I read about it in a couple places - Dr. Mercola's site rings a bell for one - and I got some at the local hfs. I have been the most happy with this of all the Vit C I have ever taken.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by sunnysandiegan

I've only read the first two pages and now the last page of this thread, so please forgive me if this has already been mentioned....

What about acerola cherry powder for vitamin C?

I read about it in a couple places - Dr. Mercola's site rings a bell for one - and I got some at the local hfs. I have been the most happy with this of all the Vit C I have ever taken.

all of the acerola cherry powders i've seen contain maltodextrin, which is corn.

Manonash,
Thanks for the links. It looks like those are all from Nutricology/Allergy Research Group. That increases the options to 2 at least. Better than one!

[sunnysandiegan]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

all of the acerola cherry powders i've seen contain maltodextrin, which is corn.

Manonash,
Thanks for the links. It looks like those are all from Nutricology/Allergy Research Group. That increases the options to 2 at least. Better than one!

Thanks Jacqueline! My allergies are far more straightforward (cilantro and ginger for food & erithymiacin for drugs), so I have never had to learn all those hidden allergens.

I saw a holistic dentist today and he said the acerola cherry powder was fine for me, but that I was paying more than necessary. He suggested ascorbyl palmitate for when I feel a need to supplement my immune system. (And ordinary C for daily supplementation, which I don't currently do, so I didn't clarify what "ordinary" means to him.)

What's the scoop on ascorbyl palmitate?

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Manonash

That's interesting to know about the Vit C. I don't tolerate it very well and have a low bowel tolerance (about 2000mg). I wonder if I need a beet source C .... maybe it's the corn.

Shonda

Argh, I've had troubles with sleep off-and-on throughout this. I don't have a lot of advice, the one thing I ran into, I don't know how common it is, is that maybe 5 or 6 months after I got my amalgams out, I had to increase my dosage of melatonin (not helpful for middle of the night issues, but I need it to fall asleep in the first place). I was at a high level for about 6 months and then went back to what I was taking before.

Hey, I've got an idea/question/possibility. That amount of vitamin C is lower than, from what I've read, is the basic amount that adult humans need. I've read that physiologically, adults usually need 5 or 6 grams per day--or rather, they can profitably use that amount, and I was able to get my daily need down to the 5-6 gram range but no lower. But there's a concept in some part of alternative medicine that says that some sort of allergy can develop even to nutrients, and if it's a nutrient (vs a food), it's more of an inefficiency/intolerance of that nutrient, so the work's not being done properly. NAET practitioners are supposed to be able to help with this stuff. I haven't tried it yet for myself (I'm wondering if our family quirk with vitamin K could fall into this category) but my mom has the same experience you do. If you ever consider it, and try it, could you let me know? If she's ever interested in working on health stuff, I'm going to suggest she look into this as a possibility.

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it. I was just thinking that all of the corn-free ladies in the allergies forum would love to have more than one option for vitamin C. If you find out that it is available in non-IV form, I'd surely love to know.

There is the Perque vitamin C as well. It's not cheap, and if you have to take a lot at once, the flavor gets to be a bit, ah, wearing, but I believe it's corn-free.

Originally Posted by sunnysandiegan

I've only read the first two pages and now the last page of this thread, so please forgive me if this has already been mentioned....

What about acerola cherry powder for vitamin C?

I read about it in a couple places - Dr. Mercola's site rings a bell for one - and I got some at the local hfs. I have been the most happy with this of all the Vit C I have ever taken.

The big Sodium Ascorbate thread in H&H discusses acerola a bit. I _think_ I remember that some folks couldn't take as much acerola as sodium ascorbate, and they interpreted it as (given the bias in the population responding) as SA being helpful for toxic load issues, and the higher amounts they could take of SA as being good/helpful. I've wondered if we should switch to something like acerola long-term, when we're healthier (me and the kids, I mean) but I don't know yet.