Chelating mamas? - Page 5

[Annikate]

Yes, I've read 2 of Andy's books (well, perused them really) and visit his site from time to time.

I've also been reading on the chelatingkids2 yahoo group (some of these people do not follow A.C's protocol) and so now I'm confused by all the different options!

DD has had the *classic* signs that ASD kids exhibit. Gastro problems, sleep issues, wheat allergy, some stimming behaviors, etc...

Had her hair tested and yep, that's the problem. Luckily I stopped vaxing her at 6 mos.

I assume the DAN doc follows AC's protocol b/c a mama on Andy's site recommended this doc.

I guess I'll have to reread the book before I talk w/him.

I jsut sent off another hair test for dd to see what difference (if any) her change of diet and supplements have made.

I am not having any issues myself (that I notice right now). Truthfully, if I am I wouldn't notice as I'm putting ALL my energy into *fixing* dd2 (and dd1 too.)

What do the sulfur rich foods do to the body during chelation?

[JaneS]

I thought it depended on how your body processes sulfur? Some people do great and some are very sensitive? Sulfur binds with mercury. For someone whose detox pathways work, this is a good thing. For someone whose pathways don't, not at all. It's been a while since I've read this stuff though...

[PingPong'sMom]

Challenge test?

I'm starting here because I know the yahoo group is very pro-Andy Cutler (not that this group isn't but I feel may be a different well rounded), and not that I don't trust his research but well, anyway (family crisiseseses so I can't think straight).

Flipping through his book/read in the past that a challenge test is bad. Can't find the info. My NP wants me to do a Doctor's Data urine test: day 1: first urine of day discard, then pee all day and test it for baseline... then day 2: first urine of day is discarded, then take 1000mg of (among other ingredients) DMSA, then pee for 6 hours, test those 6 hours of urine for how much metal is in my urine. Is that the challenge test I am supposed to avoid? My NP is willing to do a hair test but she claims that it tests for already mobilized metal (not stored metal) and only shows evidence of one type of mercury and not the other. What is the bad thing about the challenge test? Is it that it mobilizes mercury but doesn't keep it from resettling back into organs? I brought that up and she said that the kidneys will pull it out... but I thought I read something about before it gets to the kidneys is when it re-settles into organs... Augh. I can't find the info. Help!

[moneca]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I thought it depended on how your body processes sulfur? Some people do great and some are very sensitive? Sulfur binds with mercury. For someone whose detox pathways work, this is a good thing. For someone whose pathways don't, not at all. It's been a while since I've read this stuff though...

Correct. Andy lists sulfur foods in the appendix. Some practicioners actually suggest diets that are high in sulfur foods to chelate. He advises against this in Amalgam Illness stating that it can be harmful p 89-90. He discusses diet starting on p. 69.

[moneca]

Originally Posted by PingPong'sMom

I'm starting here because I know the yahoo group is very pro-Andy Cutler (not that this group isn't but I feel may be a different well rounded), and not that I don't trust his research but well, anyway (family crisiseseses so I can't think straight).

Flipping through his book/read in the past that a challenge test is bad. Can't find the info. My NP wants me to do a Doctor's Data urine test: day 1: first urine of day discard, then pee all day and test it for baseline... then day 2: first urine of day is discarded, then take 1000mg of (among other ingredients) DMSA, then pee for 6 hours, test those 6 hours of urine for how much metal is in my urine. Is that the challenge test I am supposed to avoid? My NP is willing to do a hair test but she claims that it tests for already mobilized metal (not stored metal) and only shows evidence of one type of mercury and not the other. What is the bad thing about the challenge test? Is it that it mobilizes mercury but doesn't keep it from resettling back into organs? I brought that up and she said that the kidneys will pull it out... but I thought I read something about before it gets to the kidneys is when it re-settles into organs... Augh. I can't find the info. Help!

If you have Amalgam Illness Andy discusses challenge tests p 54, on the bottom of p 76-77, and 179-180. I trusted my ND and did a challenge test with 250 mg DMSA before I ever read the book. Had a slight headache and that was it. I was lucky. I only weigh 120 lbs. I don't know what would have happened if I had taken 1 gram as your NP is directing. The problem is that DMSA mobilizes the mercury and takes some out, but after that one dose a lot of mercury is left in your system. It redistributes and has the highest affinity for the brain and liver ! That is why people can harm themselves with challenge tests.
I looked at several chelators and talked to many individuals who had chelated before I read AI and decided on that protocol. It's a pain in the bootie to have to wake up every three hours to take the chelators, but I wanted a safe program. I also like the fact that Andy sells nothing but the books. Keep us posted on how you're doing.

[PingPong'sMom]

Correction: 100mg DMSA not 1000mg...

Thank you Moneca,

I read those pages and went back to what my NP wrote down. It's 100mg my NP wants me to take, not a full gram. And that sounds safe(er?) than 500mg+ as AI indicates is dangerous. Plus, it sounds like I can still do this challenge test but not take all the DMSA all at once. So I can still have a urine test as a baseline reading but do it in a safer way. Unless I read that wrong.

I also wanted to thank all the mommies on this board. I sat in my NP's office willing to discuss chelation. She brought out all the tests and, with your knowledge of challenge tests, I questioned her and actually declined buying the tests right then and there. They are sitting in her front office waiting for me if I want them but I left paying only the office fee and AI in hand. W/out the strong words of how bad the challenge tests are, I may have taken the test kits home and started them. So thank you for being all those mommies behind me in that doctor's office whispering, "Think about it, check it out first, it doesn't sound right yet."

[JaneS]

Someone posted somewhere in last several days ... or last week ... asked about a "natural" form of chelation, if it exists.

I think the only other one that makes sense is William Walsh's of the Pfieffer Treatment Center protocol: MT Promotion.
http://www.healing-arts.org/children/mtpromotion.htm

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by PingPong'sMom

So I can still have a urine test as a baseline reading but do it in a safer way. Unless I read that wrong.

Yes but urine and blood testing for Hg only shows very recent exposure. If it's low that doesn't mean you aren't toxic. Only that you did not have a high exposure very recently. The body stores Hg in your organs.

Cutler does say there is a "safer" way to do a challenge, to divide the dosage and take it every 3-4 hrs., just like his method of chelation. But he doesn't believe in challenges meaning anything substantial and relies on the Hair Elements test for 16 metals and 23 minerals instead.

[moneca]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Someone posted somewhere in last several days ... or last week ... asked about a "natural" form of chelation, if it exists.

I think the only other one that makes sense is William Walsh's of the Pfieffer Treatment Center protocol: MT Promotion.
http://www.healing-arts.org/children/mtpromotion.htm

Interesting. I couldn't find anything that stated that zinc loading and MT removed mercury from the brain. Of course I didn't look at the 2500 articles that were mentioned. Did you find this in your reading Jane?

[JaneS]

Yes, MT does cross the BBB and does bind to Hg according to Walsh.

[JaneS]

sorry... hit submit when I meant to hit preview.

Haven't read these in full but some stuff to go on:
http://content.febsjournal.org/cgi/c...271/23-24/4872 (and choose similar PubMed articles link)
http://www.bbbautism.com/dan_william_walsh.htm
http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com...othionein.html

Pfieffer has a treatment guide for $, but I think BestBirths got more info somewhere else? We were discussing several months back on Causes of Autism thread I think and she was loading zinc based on it with good success.

Cutler doesn't think much of MT promotion I think.

[Annikate]

Jane's post about MT has got me thinking: (And I don't remember the answer from Andy's books so I'm deferring to you mamas who remember more than I do! : )

Is it possible that the mercury in dd's system has NOT passed the BBB? Doesn't that take some time? (Meaning, longer than 16 months?)

I got her 2nd hair test results Fri. and now instead of meeting 1 counting rule, she actually meets 2.

My awesome new dentist suggested that a stool test would be more accurate but I looked at the Genova site and could only find urine tests for metals. (?)

What are your thoughts about this mamas?

[moneca]

Originally Posted by JaneS

sorry... hit submit when I meant to hit preview.

Haven't read these in full but some stuff to go on:
http://content.febsjournal.org/cgi/c...271/23-24/4872 (and choose similar PubMed articles link)
http://www.bbbautism.com/dan_william_walsh.htm
http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com...othionein.html

Pfieffer has a treatment guide for $, but I think BestBirths got more info somewhere else? We were discussing several months back on Causes of Autism thread I think and she was loading zinc based on it with good success.

Cutler doesn't think much of MT promotion I think.

Thanks Jane - I'll check these out.

[moneca]

Originally Posted by Annikate

Jane's post about MT has got me thinking: (And I don't remember the answer from Andy's books so I'm deferring to you mamas who remember more than I do! : )

Is it possible that the mercury in dd's system has NOT passed the BBB? Doesn't that take some time? (Meaning, longer than 16 months?)

I got her 2nd hair test results Fri. and now instead of meeting 1 counting rule, she actually meets 2.

My awesome new dentist suggested that a stool test would be more accurate but I looked at the Genova site and could only find urine tests for metals. (?)

What are your thoughts about this mamas?

Annikate - Jane is the info guru so I'm going to let her tackle this one. My shoddy memory (thank you mercury) would make me say that after exposure mercury stays in your body for 3 days before it is physically excreted. That would be in the case of a swallowed mercury chip per say. I know that Andy Cutler found that after all amalgams are removed, patients will feel better for about 3 months as their body starts to clear the mercury. Around the three month mark individuals felt worse again because their extracellular mercury levels had diminished enough that their organs started to dump mercury into their blood again. Not sure about how long it takes to cross the bbb and am looking forward to Jane's reply on this. I would think that it would cross over within days of exposure, but hopefully I am wrong. I only say this because mercury has the highest affinity for the brain and liver.

Jane and I both had the CDSA done on our kiddos over a year ago. She just recently had another one done on Luke and is waiting results. You can order them at www.directlabs.com

[Annikate]

moneca,

I forgot to look at directlabs. I just sent off a CDSA for both dds and just kept looking at the Genova site. : Directlabs has what I want! (Gonna blame this on the mercury too - ) REally not so funny though.

Another question:

WHICH test is more reliable? Hair or fecal?

Is it true that hair shows what's been excreted up to 3 mos. ago and fecal is what's being excreted now?

[JaneS]

RE: BBB

Not sure exactly but isn't the issue with babes that it doesn't close up 'til what, 1 or 2 years old? I would think it would be days as well... the Hg is in the bloodstream for a few days until it finds a cozy place to store.

RE: Stool test

How would this be more accurate exactly? Stool tests would only show what is being excreted now, not the total body burden. I think the Hair Elements test with counting rules is most accurate for showing that.

I don't think the full CDSA includes metals. We just did yeast/bacteriology twice. We are now going back to do the full enchilada and I didn't see metals on the order.

[Annikate]

Nope, the CDSA doesn't show metals. I did find the test though here. I'm thinking of calling them to see if they can add this test on to dd's poopy that's already there and waiting for the CDSA analysis.

Will you mamas speculate here with me a minute:

Why would you think that she's now meeting 2 counting rules instead of 1?????? I thought the diet and supps would have helped at least *some*. (I still have 4 amalgams left in my mouth - - is that it?)

Sometimes I think I should just relax about all this (and I have) but other times - - like now - - I can't just stick my head in the sand about it yk? ANd figuring out the best course of action is sooooo hard and is like taking a giant leap of faith.

It would be easier if it were myself and only myself to chelate. 1. Remove amalgams, 2. Take a chelating agent

(Not to make light of your situation moneca (and others here) , but geez, all these other factors to consider w/little ones:
ASD and the time frame for *recovery*
How breastfeeding does skew results
Wonder over the dangers of existing amalgams while b'feeding
I could go on . . .

Thanks for your thoughts mamas. I reeeeally, reeeeally appreciate it.

[moneca]

Originally Posted by Annikate

Nope, the CDSA doesn't show metals. I did find the test though here. I'm thinking of calling them to see if they can add this test on to dd's poopy that's already there and waiting for the CDSA analysis.

Will you mamas speculate here with me a minute:

Why would you think that she's now meeting 2 counting rules instead of 1?????? I thought the diet and supps would have helped at least *some*. (I still have 4 amalgams left in my mouth - - is that it?)

Sometimes I think I should just relax about all this (and I have) but other times - - like now - - I can't just stick my head in the sand about it yk? ANd figuring out the best course of action is sooooo hard and is like taking a giant leap of faith.

It would be easier if it were myself and only myself to chelate. 1. Remove amalgams, 2. Take a chelating agent

(Not to make light of your situation moneca (and others here) , but geez, all these other factors to consider w/little ones:
ASD and the time frame for *recovery*
How breastfeeding does skew results
Wonder over the dangers of existing amalgams while b'feeding
I could go on . . .

Thanks for your thoughts mamas. I reeeeally, reeeeally appreciate it.

We did a stool toxicology for both Sierra and I that was through Direct Labs. I did it because Sierra didn't have enough hair for a sample and I take bentonite clay and wanted to know if this was pulling out a ton of metals through my stool. You have 4 ways that toxins can be excreted - hair, skin, urine, and stool. I did the stool test just for my own satisfaction. I would say that the hair test is the most reliable.
Yes, there is a lot you can allow yourself to stress over. Jane and I have been there done that. It's not fun. I think you do so more if you see yourself as the cause (vax, poor nutritional status, or mercury toxicity just to name the big ones). I just finished writing to Jane that I've tried so much with DD and the only thing that has helped is something that I don't understand at all. For me (as far as Sierra's situation is concerned) this has become more of a spiritual trial for me than anything else. Not that I won't continue to do everything for her that I can, but it's really about me giving control over to God and stop fighting to control the situation. I've been a control freak for almost two years now and it hasn't done any of us any good. I remember being so stressed a year and a half ago that I only slept one hour a night for three weeks. I went majorly grey and that is when a bunch of symptoms of mercury toxicity presented themselves. I think I killed my mineral stores, ny adrenals, and my immune system took a hit. Don't do this to yourself. It hurts your kiddos. I hope you are a quicker learner than I've been.
What's done is done. Let it go. Jane quit bf Luke because she was mercury toxic and was worried about what it was doing to him (maybe starting to have amalgams removed too). My bm turned to water during my stress out when dd was 13 mo so we quit too. Both our kiddos gut problems got worse after we quit bf them even though we had tons of amalgams in our mouths. I would not stop bf your dd if she has gut problems, but thats just my opinion.

[moneca]

Toraji- Where are you? How is it going?

[moneca]

Reached the end goal of 100 mg DMSA/ 100mg ALA today. Had no problems with the last three weeks of 75/75. This will be my max dose since Andy Cutler states that a dose should never exceed 1mg per pound of body weight. I hope everyone else is doing well.