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Church behavior - Page 9

post #161 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie
There's a huge difference. There's a reason for a child not to go into the street or put their hands in their diapers or crawling where they shouldn't. There is absolutely no reason to pin a child to a blanket by a mother's disapproval. We're not talking about stopping a child from doing something unsafe; we're talking about training a child to do something unchildlike.
There is a reason, which is to stay safe. Look, I'm a big believer in having reasons for things we ask our kids to do, and "because I said so" doesn't count as a reason. I always explain my requests to my kids if they ask, and if I can't sufficiently explain it, I don't make the request. But we are talking about *babies* and young toddlers, not verbal, conversational, logical children. If they are old enough to understand the rational examples you give, they are for the most part old enough not to need the blanket. And it is our job as parents to keep them safe, even against their will, until they have the knowledge and rational skills to keep themselves safe.

Aren't all those examples teaching a child to be unchildlike? It is childlike to run indiscriminately, put their hands in their diapers, etc. It isn't wrong, they just have no idea why they shouldn't. That's why we have to teach them.

Quote:
But staying on the blanket to "stay safe" will only work if you are right there in the room with them. And if you are right there in the room with them, there is no need for the blanket, unless you are constantly otherwise occupied, in which case in hardly seems fair to punish the baby for your interests by confining them to a blanket.
No, that's the point--I taught them to stay on the blanket and then when I had to leave the room for a minute or so I knew I could trust them to stay safely on the blanket. And I did also ask them to stay on the blanket while I was there in the room if I was doing something else, especially something dangerous, but putting them on the blanket isn't punishing them; it's protecting them. And I've said this over and over, but the point still seems to be getting missed--I never kept them on the blanket when it wasn't their choice for more than a few minutes. I didn't keep them on the blanket all day, as an alternative to learning or exploring or being attached to me.

Quote:
You are engaging in operant conditioning. Teaching can only occur in so far as an individual can understand. I don't think your baby understands the concept of blanket training. You are presenting a behavior (staying on the blanket) and a consequence, however benign you might feel it is (putting baby back on the blanket with a word from mommy). Another reason it isn't teaching? The child has absolutely no choice. According to you, she'll stay on the blanket, her own will be darned, unless you decide to reevaluate the situation and deem her too young.
I agree that teaching can only occur if the person can understand, which is why the logical examples you gave wouldn't work (or rather wouldn't constitute teaching) for a baby or young toddler. But the baby can and does understand blanket training in the sense that she figures out that I want her to stay on the blanket, which is why she does it.

As I have said I do believe in giving children as much choice about their own lives as possible, but for babies we sometimes have to make choices for them for their own safety, or because they are incapable of making their own choices.

Quote:
I am certainly not opposed to teaching. I teach my babies from the day they come out into the world. I teach them about love and grace and mercy, and how to latch on, and how to keep their fingers away from their poo, and how I'll always come when they're crying (I guess I've been conditioned ) It's (a) your subject matter ("blanket training") and (b) your method ("training") that I take issue with. In the case of the baby learning to eat throwing food, I am right there beside her, gently reminding her that we don't throw food and, if necessary, taking the food away and giving her something we can throw. I don't "train" her out of throwing her food, and then set her up with with a trayful of food and walk out of the room, expecting her not to throw it.
But why bother "gently reminding her that we don't throw food" unless you expect her eventually to catch on that she should not throw food? And what is the difference between gently reminding her not to throw food and redirecting her to something she can throw, and gently reminding her to stay on the blanket and redirecting her back onto the blanket (other than the fact that you think there's a good reason for one but not the other)?

Quote:
I wouldn't have knives anywhere where they could get to them, and if they did happen to find something inappropriate to mouth, it would be on me, not them. Babies do not stay primarily orally-fixated forever.
No, it's not forever. But it does last several months and it is awfully frustrating when you're alone in the house with a baby in the oral stage and she's just learned to crawl and scoot really fast and then walk, so you have to watch her constantly, and you can't answer the phone or go to the bathroom or get something out of the kitchen, let alone do any work, because she *will* find a way to injure herself, and if you take her with you she throws a fit. Mainstream people use playpens, cribs, baby gates, and high chairs for this purpose. I happen to believe that it is much more respectful to teach the child to safely stay in one place. If watching baby with your full undivided attention 100% of the time worked for you, I'm glad it did. Really. But I don't think it's realistic for most people.
post #162 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie
There's a huge difference.
Well, I don't see it. And I don't see how saying, "Please stay on the blanket," in a calm and quiet manner displays any sort of "disapproval" whatsoever. Frowning and "scolding", that's how I envision disapproval. I don't see how you can argue that the child does it because they fear disapproval any more than they eventually learn to sit down in the bathtub or not run into the street. They learn it because we calmly and patiently repeat the requests and physically help them.

This is how I see it. She taught them that occasionally she will ask them to stay in one place, a place that is easily defined, and she will quickly return. I think it's clear that her babies trusted her and felt very strongly attached to her, otherwise it wouldn't have worked without corporal punishment. They trusted that she had a good reason to ask that of them, that she didn't expect them to stay there longer than their attention spans could take it, and that she wasn't abandoning them. AND that she wouldn't plop them down in a little cage and disappear. I think a child would be MORE reassured by the fact that they could, if necessary, toddle or crawl after her, whereas the concrete barrier of a baby gate closes off that option completely.

I just can't see what's not GD about this. I think it's a great idea.
post #163 of 166
I started a new thread to discuss blanket-training and alternatives so we could let this thread go back to the original topic. My blanket-training thread is here: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=438203
post #164 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna
No, that's the point--I taught them to stay on the blanket and then when I had to leave the room for a minute or so I knew I could trust them to stay safely on the blanket. And I did also ask them to stay on the blanket while I was there in the room if I was doing something else, especially something dangerous, but putting them on the blanket isn't punishing them; it's protecting them. And I've said this over and over, but the point still seems to be getting missed--I never kept them on the blanket when it wasn't their choice for more than a few minutes. I didn't keep them on the blanket all day, as an alternative to learning or exploring or being attached to me.
You cannot trust an eight-month-old baby to make wise choices. Or a one-year-old. Or even a two-year-old. It doesn't matter how well you think you've trained them.
post #165 of 166
Thank you, Brigianna
post #166 of 166
I couldn't even sit quietly through a church service. I would never expect a baby too
Blanket training- OMG :
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