How would you have handled this with GD?

[cycle]

Hi Mommas,

DS is almost 16 months old and he and I were out to dinner tonight and I had my first experience with what I imiagine is "terrible twos" behavior. We went to our local co-op and had dinner at their cafe. I got ds an apple juice (they have organic), this was like the second time he has had anything but momma milk or water. It was in one of those boxes with a straw; well he was completely enamoured with the straw and drinking through it (of course). He started to chew the straw and pull it out of the box and I tried to help him put it back in. Well he became very possessive with the juice, and was jerking it away from me. I explained to him that I was trying to help him and he continued to jerk it away and start to get upset if I tried to help him. In addition to needing to help him with the straw I wanted him to eat dinner as I know he was hungry. So I decided to take the drink away because he was becoming so possesive and because I wanted him to eat. He started to become upset because I took it away, I thought he was going to really become upset but he didn't. He was mad for several seconds and then he was fine.

Did I handle this right? I just don't feel like he should think it is ok to grab things away from me like he was doing - I wouldn't expect anyone to do that and I wouldn't do that to anyone. I did not yell at him, I just explained to him that I was trying to help him. When he continued to jerk it away from me I took it. I did give it back to him throughout the meal so he could drink and he was fine - though it was a slight battle every time I took it away again.

This was the first time anything like this has ever happened. Not the first time he has tested me but I guess in this way, really starting to get upset and trying to keep the drink away from me.

This probably sounds silly and insignificant but for some reason it was a big deal to me.

Any input or advice is appreciated!

[Soundhunter]

If someone gave you something REALLY exciting, that you REALLY liked, that you where just over the moon about, and then they started to try and interfere with your enjoyment of it, you'd probably get irate and give an attitude too. I think if I gave something to Emma that she was really really excited about, I'd enjoy her enjoying it. If it was in a restaurant I'd be extra happy that something was keeping her occupied and I'd enjoy the rare chance to eat my meal uninterrupted. If someone did to an adult what you did to him, they'd get angry, try and see it with some empathy, his feelings aren't less simply because he's a smaller person. If Emma was making a huge mess I might have stopped that, but just playing with it, no, I wouldn't have interfered or decided that he should eat and therefore take something away that he was totally excited about. What is a possession you might treasure for say, your birthday, a really awesome expensive camera? A new car? Something really awesome. I think you'd not want someone's hands in there interfering with your discovery of your new prized thing either. Think about it.

[BusyMommy]

Good points above but I think you did just fine. We go out to eat a couple times/week and have since our kids were tiny. I do think it's important to establish that the "rules" may be a bit different in a restaurant; ie. we need to stay at our table and eat our meals. You continued to let him use the straw & I bet you gave it to him to keep after he ate. You weren't rude or disrespectful. I think you did great.

[artgoddess]

I'm with Soundhunter on this one. I'd have let my DS explore all there was to learn about the new experience. My 26 month old doesn't talk in sentences yet but I know when he does, his first will most likely be, "I do it". It's a great time, (as if any of them aren't )watching them try to figure out how things work. I take the laid back approach and just enjoy it with them. It's really fun to re-learn all there is to know about the simplest things when you let your DC guide you.

[The4OfUs]

I'm with Soundhunter and artgoddess.

If it was making a big mess or becoming a distraction to other patrons, I might do something about it. But if he was just happy playing with it, I'd let it go.

If he didn't eat cause the juice was so cool (being one of the few times he's had it) and was still hungry after I was done and ready to go, I'd just get him a snack or pack his food and give it to him while shopping or at home.

I have learned from my very independent, very persistent 26-month-old that until he really *understands* that I'm trying to help him (now, I ask - "do you want some help?" and sometimes he'll say yes, sometimes no, and I listen to what he says), it doesn't matter what my intention was (helping him), to him it still looks like me taking it away - he doesn't know (and especially didn't at 16 months) that I'm really going to give it back after I "fix" it. He's finally getting that now, but it's just started in the past couple months.

I don't think that you did anything wrong or 'not GD', really, because you weren't mean or anything, I'd maybe just take this as a learning opportunity to start to get ready to look at the bigger picture and think about picking your battles.

Having said that, I am aperson who is more concerned than some mamas on the board of disturbing others out in public (at restaurants, etc. where other people are paying to have a nice experience, or at church - see the recent church thread - but not necessarily at a store or elsewhere) so I tend to look at situations and if I know my DS can't "handle" them without causing a ruckus (which I know is completely normal, but I don't expect everyone else to tolerate it), then we tend to stay away for a while. We didn't go out to eat for about, oh, 6-7 months because he was just at a not-very-distractible point...he's fine now. SO, I can see why you took it away, I guess it really depends on how enthusiastically he was playing with it, if it was spilling, etc.

[mamaduck]

I think from his perspective, you were grabbing and pulling away. When someone offers me "help" I assume that I can reject that help if I don't want it, kwim? If my child does not want my help, then I try to respect that. I would have just let him play with his juice and straw, and if he never ate his food then I would have taken it with for later.

[Linda in OZ]

I have a 13 month old that lurves poppas, the little juice cartons, she does the same thing pulls the straw out and spends ages trying to put it back it, if she needs help she will ask, other than that I think if she isn't tipping it all over herself I leave her to it. As for his dinner I think if he didn't want to eat it then and there maybe get a doggie bag,
Personally I'm at the stage where if dd is happy sitting in one spot and isn't causing havoc I let her be and enjoy just sitting with her.

[abac]

I just don't feel like he should think it is ok to grab things away from me like he was doing - I wouldn't expect anyone to do that and I wouldn't do that to anyone. I did not yell at him, I just explained to him that I was trying to help him. When he continued to jerk it away from me I took it. I did give it back to him throughout the meal so he could drink and he was fine - though it was a slight battle every time I took it away again.

(Bolding mine.) I agree with what the other mamas have said. You say you wouldn't do that (grab) to anyone, but you did it to your ds. I know you were trying to help him, but as some pp's pointed out, your intentions and his interpretation are different. As far as your ds was concerned, you were grabbing his new "toy," when you were really trying to help. As far as you were concerned, your ds was grabbing his juice box from you, when he was really trying to hold on to his new toy.

I think it is so important to empathize with our children when it comes to discipline, to really try to walk in their shoes and consider how they are feeling. It can be hard for us as adults to consider how our children are feeling, yet we often feel we need to teach them empathy when we have yet to master it ourselves. My ds teaches me much more than I teach him.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by abac

(Bolding mine.) I agree with what the other mamas have said. You say you wouldn't do that (grab) to anyone, but you did it to your ds. I know you were trying to help him, but as some pp's pointed out, your intentions and his interpretation are different. As far as your ds was concerned, you were grabbing his new "toy," when you were really trying to help. As far as you were concerned, your ds was grabbing his juice box from you, when he was really trying to hold on to his new toy.

:

BTW, how do you guys give those juice boxes to your kids without them squeezing them and squirting juice all over? I can't even do it!

[Soundhunter]

Originally Posted by natensarah

:

BTW, how do you guys give those juice boxes to your kids without them squeezing them and squirting juice all over? I can't even do it!

Wen Emma was smaller I took the first sip, a very generous to mama first sip

[LoveBeads]

Originally Posted by abac

(Bolding mine.) I agree with what the other mamas have said. You say you wouldn't do that (grab) to anyone, but you did it to your ds. I know you were trying to help him, but as some pp's pointed out, your intentions and his interpretation are different. As far as your ds was concerned, you were grabbing his new "toy," when you were really trying to help. As far as you were concerned, your ds was grabbing his juice box from you, when he was really trying to hold on to his new toy.

I think it is so important to empathize with our children when it comes to discipline, to really try to walk in their shoes and consider how they are feeling. It can be hard for us as adults to consider how our children are feeling, yet we often feel we need to teach them empathy when we have yet to master it ourselves. My ds teaches me much more than I teach him.

Yep. And the bolding is mine because those are words to live by.

If you must take something away, try to substitute it with something equally fun or interesting. For example, I could see that you might want to take the juicebox away if your son is doing something dangerous, like sticking the straw down his throat. In that case I would give him something else that might interest him.

[tracilicious]

I agree with the posters above. I'm not sure why you are so concerned that your son was being "posessive" about the juice box. You gave it to him, so to him it was his. Then grabbed it away from him while he was enjoying it. I think I'd be posessive too!

[cycle]

Thanks to everyone for all of your great advice!! I should clarify that he was starting to make a mess, that is part of why I wanted to help him. I didn't feel exactly right about it and I am still learning about GD and trying very hard. Some of it comes naturally, no yelling at him, no disrespecting him, and of course no spanking. I do try to always think if I would do or say what I am doing or saying to him to an adult - I feel very strongly that children are not our possessions or something we control, they are people, little humans just like us. With that being said, I would not have liked it if someone had taken this cool new thing away from me as I did to him. I do however think that because he was making a mess that I had to take it away from him.

I hope I am doing this right....

[abac]

I hope I am doing this right

As long as you're thinking about what you're doing and how you're treating your ds, and trying to find better ways to deal with discipline situations, you're doing it right!!

[HerthElde]

Yeah, if there's one thing I'm learning, it's that foresight is a key to GD. I've just made a mental note not to give something fun and potentially messy to my dd's in a place where it's inappropriate to make a mess.
Kind of reminds me of my lack of foresight taking a very curious toddler to a home show . . . I thought she'd have fun for some reason, but I very quickly figured out that it isn't fun for a toddler to see countless hottubs, stoves, fridges, riding lawnmowers, etc, that she isn't allowed to play in. We ended up leaving after seeing only about 1/2 the displays (I'm amazed we saw that much, actually) because she was so upset.
And for the record, in your situation I probably would have done the same thing. Then made a mental note not to do it again

[Soundhunter]

Another note to make is just how much he loves juice boxes. This is really useful info if you ever really need him to self entertain himself for a period of time, at least in the near future. But, I woudn't set him up with one where you'll have to take it away again. But a long car ride, a boring shopping trip, a boring restaurant, soemwhere where you need him to be occupied, bring a juice box and lots of wet wipes, and you're set! What a useful discovery you've made.

[luv my 2 sweeties]

I second the "generous mama sip" technique. Draining a good quarter of the box goes a long way toward making juice boxes less messy. Plus, little ones don't need the whole box anyway as it can distract from the meal. By the time they are old enough to object to your big drink, they are generally getting old enough to be more careful. (I still take a *small* sip for my 3 y.o. ds -- just enough to prevent that spillage that happens with just the slightest pressure at first.)

I think you handled it fine, even if not *ideally*. Doing something that upsets your child isn't necessarily always the wrong thing. I agree with most pp's that there was probably a better way to handle it, but you what you thought best at the time, and it wasn't really all that bad.

One more thing to consider as you are filing this incident for future reference: I bet when you started trying to take it and he kept jerking it away, the mess just got worse! I know about this kind of escalation from experience. You live, you learn. You sound like an awesome mama! Your ds is blessed, even though he might not realize it all the time.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

For our 15 mth old, teaching her the sign for "help" was the best sign she's learned yet. She wouldn't understand my words when I wanted to fix something for her (like open the fruit leather package, or fix the straw in the drink) and thought I was taking it away, but now she approximates the sign for "help" then hands it to me to fix, whatever it is. If she doesn't ask for help, I ask her if she would like help, and fix it if she gives it to me, but otherwise don't take it from her. I do spend a lot of time mopping up messes though

[perl]

not really GD-related but maybe it is if it can prevent some of the frustration related to juice boxes and straws in general....

There is a little contraption that I picked up at a grocery store (I think?) that is a plastic juice box "holder" so that the sides can't be squeezed so that the juice squirts out. It has little handles on the side. The one I got has Dora the Explorer on it (even though DS has no idea whatsoever who that is).

Now for my favorite invention.....I carry a roll of packing tape around in the car. Whenever I get a shake or other drink with a straw for DS I tape the heck out of the lid and tape the straw to the lid. Looks ridiculous (like the time I put the giant roll of tape attached to the big metal dispenser into the diaper bag in anticipation of getting a smoothie for DS at Costco) but it totally works!

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by perl

Now for my favorite invention.....I carry a roll of packing tape around in the car. Whenever I get a shake or other drink with a straw for DS I tape the heck out of the lid and tape the straw to the lid. Looks ridiculous (like the time I put the giant roll of tape attached to the big metal dispenser into the diaper bag in anticipation of getting a smoothie for DS at Costco) but it totally works!

OK, I LOVE this, because DS is at a stage where he loves "regular" straw cups, and is really good at getting the straw out, but not so muhc at gettign it back in. I think I may just try this suggestion out!