Sleeping when dd says it's time to sleep - Page 2

[bellona]

My kids have bedtimes, but I wouldn't say I control their sleep.

I guide them in getting ready for bed at the same time every night. I don't *make* them do it, and really whenever there is a problem it's all me (I'm stressed and frustrated and as a result they take a confrontational stance), but since I know that it doesn't happen often. My two youngest (20 mo and 4 1/2 yo) go to bed at 7:30 and my oldest (6 yo) goes to bed at 8:00. I REALLY need the time after that to be able to get stuff done (besides being a full time mom , I also go to school, homeschool (which I put alot of preparation into considering we're unschool-y ...preperation is more like me researching their interests to weed out the junk and find good stuff and cool info...and work from home off and on as well as some other stuff). There is stuff I just need peace and quiet for.

Usually my oldest and youngest get up between 5 and 6 in the morning (the baby likes to get up between 4 and 5, but lately it's been slightly later ) and my 4 1/2 yo gets up at about 8. The baby is the only one that takes a nap on a regular basis.

If they don't feel like sleeping they don't have to. They are actually allowed to get up and play if they are the only person in their room, but when their roommate comes in, they have to stay in their bed, but they can still read and play quietly.

Even though I've determined their bedtimes, I move them if I percieve there is a problem (one is over tired regularly when it's time or doesn't go to sleep for an hour after being up their regularly) and they don't fight it...they let me know that they're tired if I'm late.

[Yooper]

I do not doubt at all that some kids and maybe most have no problem or issue with scheduled bedtimes. And for those kids, I do not think there is anything wrong or damaging about maintaining a schedule as long as it is flexible tot he childs needs and growth. But if your child is always resisting, taking hours to fall asleep, etc.... then I think it is indicitive of a need to change. I know that was the case for me and it sounds like the OP has tried schedules and they are not working for her or her child. In cases like this, thinking outside the box is necessary. The last thing I would want to do is set up sleep times to be times of frustration (for me and dd). That does not promote good sleeping habits. Sometimes you have to take a step back (perhaps into a little bit of chaos) in order to establish good feelings about sleep.

On the 4 to 3 sleep schedule, I am not really sure what I would do then. This would not be agreeable to me. Dd has gone there a couple of times. Got really tired, went to sleep in the late afternoon/early evening then woke up in the late evening. She never maintained that schedule for more than one day. She does not want to miss anything and knowing we were up and doing exciting things like eating dinner or playing games was too much to bear. I am guessing that your dc might try that during the "detox" period but is unlikely to maintain it. I also agree that it is a sign that naps are almost a thing of the past. I have read countless stories on MDC of kids who do this very thing during thier napless transition.

And it might be "managing" but I have been known to suggest an exciting activity when dd shows signs of being sleepy at times I know will be a problem (like 5pm). This is often when I will suggest helping me cook (very exciting for dd) or going outside to blow bubbles. However, if she persists that she is tired, I do not push it.

I really like the pp's suggestion of lying down in bed, reading books, and creating a calm place to think about sleep.

[EnviroBecca]

Different things will work for different families, but this has been our experience:

We knew we didn't want to do any kind of CIO or forced routine, but we also knew that at 12 weeks I would have to return to work on a consistent schedule. As soon as we came home from the hospital, we began to show the baby What We Do, believing that his natural inclination would be to learn the ways of his people. Thus, at about 10pm we all lay down on the bed and turned out the lights. If baby needed nursing or diaper change, he'd get it, but then we'd lie down in the dark again. If he got very upset about lying in the dark, we'd sit in the rocker with him, and if that didn't work we'd take him downstairs to dance to music. That was not "rewarding" his "bad" behavior; it was acknowledging that he wasn't able to sleep right then. As soon as he did go to sleep, we'd lie down in the dark. We'd get up for the day whenever I'd had enough sleep. In the daytime, we made no effort to "put him to sleep" but allowed him to drift off whenever he felt like it. We'd hold him if convenient, but if we both needed to do stuff we'd wait for him to reach the limp-limbed state and then set him in his infant seat; as long as he was near us, he'd sleep peacefully there, undisturbed by our movements and talking.

At 1 month he learned to nurse in the side-lying position. During the hours when I hoped to sleep (which included the time during the day when I felt like napping--not the same time every day), I nursed him lying on the bed, and then if he fell asleep I'd go to sleep too; if he didn't fall asleep nursing, we'd continue lying quietly on the bed for a while, and sometimes he'd go to sleep. The rest of the time I nursed sitting up, and if he fell asleep I'd hold him and read my book (I'm a big fan of reading while nursing!) until he was out cold and then put him in his infant seat and do something else. I also took him for lots of walks in the sling, and when he fell asleep in there I left him in until he woke.

When I returned to work, EnviroBaby had no schedule but was showing a general pattern: During the hours I wanted to sleep (11pm-7am) he slept most of the time, 1-4 hours at a stretch, but usually was awake and demanding entertainment for a while at some point during the night. During the day he usually took 2 naps of an hour or more and 2 or 3 brief catnaps. These happened at different times each day, but I could see the long naps coming (irritability, clinginess, and yawning) and would nurse him down.

His babysitter gently encouraged a more regular schedule by noting his 2 most common naptimes during the 7 hours with her, getting him fed and diapered just before those times, and then rocking him. If he fell asleep, great; if not, they'd play for a while and try again in 20 minutes. The other change at this time was that I was getting out of bed (leaving him alone there if he was still asleep) at the same time every day and that we were leaving the house at the same time and coming home at the same time every day. Within 2 months, he'd eased into a routine of 2 naps at the sitter's and an evening nap that started in the sling on the way home or after nursing on the bed soon after we got home. Then he'd stay up until my bedtime and sleep most of the time during the night, rarely waking other than to nurse.

Soon he became able to stay asleep on the bed even if there was nobody in the room, so I began nursing him on the bed most of the time (unless I'm in the middle of something) so that if he falls asleep he's already there and I don't have to lug his sleeping body to the bed without bumping him into anything! (That's a lot more difficult now that he's bigger and heavier.) If he's asleep when it's time to go somewhere, I just pick him up and load him into the sling. For a long time he'd sleep thru that and wake surprised to find himself in a different place; now he usually wakes and complains but calms when we get outside and start walking. I do wait until he wakes if we don't have to be there at a certain time.

At 15 months, he rarely takes the evening nap but often goes to sleep an hour or two earlier than I do, waking to nurse when I come to bed and once in the early morning hours. It's still not a strict schedule--he goes down for the night sometime between 8:30 and 11:30 and gets up for the day sometime between 7:00 and 9:30, and some days he takes one long nap instead of two--but his habits work pretty well with ours. On weekends, we just let him nap whenever he needs to and work around it.

One thing that's surprised me is that if I tell EnviroBaby the plans for the day, mentioning how his naptime will affect what we do, he'll nearly always "arrange" to be awake at the times when things are happening! His babysitter has noticed this too. I don't know how he does it, but it's cool!

I spent many many hours of my childhood bored and lonely because my parents thought it was time for me to go to bed but I wasn't sleepy yet. When I finally got a clock in my room, I discovered that the time between bedtime and sleep was averaging 2 hours every night. I feel that that time was basically wasted, and when I was finally allowed to set my own bedtime (14 years old) for years I stayed up as late as I possibly could in compensation, which wasn't good for me. I don't want my child to feel that going to sleep is giving in to authority. But it's been easy so far because he seems naturally inclined to get the sleep he needs and to be respectful of his parents' concept of nighttime; this may change!