I'm thrilled! Mumps keeps spreading! - Page 8

[CallMeMommy]

Originally Posted by aniT

Shrug, well I have never gotten it no matter how often or how closely I have been eposed.

ETA: It was the NP at the Ped's office when I took DD#2 in for it. We go to a naturpath now.

I never got it either until 2 years ago when I was pregnant (had my tonsils out when I was 3). Haven't gotten it since then, either. And I know I was exposed a lot when I was a kid, my best friend used to get it all the time. Glad you're not seeing that NP anymore, even if that's not the reason you left, what an idiot!

[LongIsland]

Iowa Dept. of Health re large gatherings:
http://www.idph.state.ia.us/adper/co...ing_policy.pdf

[MyLittleWonders]

Originally Posted by LongIsland

Iowa Dept. of Health re large gatherings:
http://www.idph.state.ia.us/adper/co...ing_policy.pdf

I marvel that they can continue to publish things with the "make sure you are fully vaxed" when wasn't it at last count 83% of those diagnosed with mumps were vaxed? Things that make you say, "hmm ..."

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by LongIsland

The CDC's mumps health advisory dated 4/14/06 states the following:

Mumps Vaccine Effectiveness
Data from outbreak investigations have shown that the effectiveness of MMR against mumps is approximately 80% after one dose and limited data suggest effectiveness of approximately 90% after two doses

http://www.phppo.cdc.gov/HAN/Archive...AlertNum=00243

Yes, but that's to be expected . . . especially after this new statement from the CDC.

[MyLittleWonders]

Do they not know how to do math? How can the vax have an approximate 85% effectiveness and yet also have an 83% failure rate? Oh man!

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders

Do they not know how to do math? How can the vax have an approximate 85% effectiveness and yet also have an 83% failure rate? Oh man!

they're not mathematicians

[LongIsland]

Nebraska update:

LINCOLN, Neb. (AP) -- Nebraska, which is part of an nine-state mumps epidemic, is now reporting 110 cases of the disease in 22 counties, health officials said Monday. Thirty-two of those cases are confirmed.

"Currently, most of our mumps cases are in southeastern Nebraska," said Dr. Anne O'Keefe, epidemiologist for the state Health and Human Services System.

She said most of the cases are among people ages 10 to 18 and 35 to 45. "However, we're seeing cases in children as young as 2 and adults up to age 64," she said.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders

Do they not know how to do math? How can the vax have an approximate 85% effectiveness and yet also have an 83% failure rate? Oh man!

It's not actually an 83% failure rate. That 83% doesn't really say how effective (or ineffective) the vaccine is. The vast majority of the population is vaccinated. If 95% of the people are vaccinated, but only 60% of the people who get mumps are fully vaccinated and 23% are partially vaccinated (I don't know the actual numbers, just pulling them out of the air), then that doesn't mean the vaccine has an 83% failure rate, kwim? The only way we could say the vaccine had an 83% failure rate would be if, out of every 100 vaccinated individuals, an average of 83 of them got mumps. That doesn't *appear* to be the case. (Although no one really knows how many people have caught mumps, since 1/3 of the people who catch it won't have symptoms.)

At any rate, the fact that 83% of the people who get it are vaccinated still shows *most* of us that the vaccine is pretty freakin useless. And the outbreak proves that mumps is pretty harmless. My MIL has had it twice (as a child and as a 40-something-year-old woman) with no problems. The little girl next door had it when DD was about 9 or 10 months old. That girl was fully vaccinated. DD didn't get sick from either one of them, despite being exposed while they were contagious. Of course, we don't know if that means she didn't actually catch it, or if she just had an asymptomatic case.... And I'm not vaccinating her either way, so I don't see the point in subjecting her to a blood draw just to check titres.

[Plummeting]

Oh, and another interesting factoid: Symptomatic mumps infection is very rare in children under age 2. The old wives' tale used to be that you couldn't get mumps until you had "all your jaw teeth". Turns out it's pretty accurate, because you get your last molars at around 2 years of age, which is when you become susceptible to symptomatic mumps infection. I can't really get clear information on whether kids under 2 just don't get infected at all, or whether they don't have symptoms, but most places you read will say that mumps infection is rare in children under age 2.

(And before all of you with stories of mumps in kids under age 2 jump down my throat, I said it was RARE, not impossible. )

[rareimer]

Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama

Yeah, you can definitely get strep with or without tonsils, but I know that some people just don't get it. I used to get tonsilitis all the time, but I have never had strep a day in my life no matter how many others around me got it. I know that happens with chicken pox too. I imagine it probably is the case with just about anything though.

i'm the same way. my older sister got (and still gets) strep all the time. i've *never* had it. she was always sicker than me though anyway. my mom attributes that to her ingesting mercury from a thermometer when she was a kid...she was also breastfed for less time than i was. she still gets sick aLOT. it might just be that some people are susceptible and some aren't. i've also never had bronchitis or tonsillitis.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama

Yeah, you can definitely get strep with or without tonsils, but I know that some people just don't get it. I used to get tonsilitis all the time, but I have never had strep a day in my life no matter how many others around me got it. I know that happens with chicken pox too. I imagine it probably is the case with just about anything though.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about strep and Scarlet Fever, so lets clear it up.

ALL OF US, got that... all of us have strep in, or on us all the time. Streph, staph, diphtheroids, neisseria are all normal commensals most of the time. Strep becomes Scarlet Fever ONLY when invaded by a bacteriophage which takes over the bacterial controls, and forces the bacteria to manufacture toxins. Even then it requires a degree of host susceptibility to do anything, and "host susceptibility" takes many forms.

When there are no bacteriophages around, Strep is strep, and only usually causes any problems in kids AFTER prolonged courses of antibiotics, or if they are immunosuppressed and its actions then are slightly different to the actions of a bacteriophage invaded bacteria.

Strep is no respector of no tonsils.

AniT, the reason you possibly got strept throat when you HAD tonsils, might have been related to whatever was causing your tonsils to suppurate in the first place.

There was no rationale behind tonsillectomy in those days, apart from crackpot ideas that tonsils caused a whole raft of disorders including arthritis... I've forgotten the list, but remember my husband had to just about do CPR to revive me after choking on my coffee reading it.

There is where a little bit of study of medical history wouldn't go amiss. So much of what was done even in the fifties was absolute rubbish. As to the twenties, it was pretty much total rubbish.

The decline of scarlet fever had nothing to do with antibiotics. The data on that makes it quite clear that the decline of scarlet fever mimicked the decline of diphtheria, which isn't surprising since both are bacteriophagic diseases not bacterial diseases.

[Jen123]

funny story in a sad sort of way:
My mother told me only "bad" girls get strep. Only "those" girls who kiss too many boys get strep.
I believed this for years.

Then my daughter came along. At three years old she was complaining of a sore throat. A severe sore throat. She was in tears , running a high fever and her glands were really swollen. I take her to the doctor and he says "She has strep throat." . I freak out , yell at the doctor that he is one sick puppy and rant on about 'who would she be kissing?'.

He educated me on the matter. I , in turn questioned my mother who said "it's what my mother told me. I assumed it was true. I didn't knowingly plant that lie in your head."

Then about four months later dd comes down with a urinary tract infection. Would you like to guess what my mother told me about uti's ? The same thing her mother told her about uti's. That only "those" girls get them.

[tippytoes26]

Is the MMR vaccine one that is suppose to be kept at a certain temperature? I thought I read and article one time that gave some statistics about how many vaccines were give that weren't kept at proper temperatures, therefore the live virus was killed therefore rendering the vaccine ineffective (I personally believe they do have SOME effectiveness at preventing disease.. we just don't feel like it's enough to justify the risk). Either I'm WAY off base here and have my players in the story all wrong, or prehaps this could be linked. But that was the first thought that came to mind when I saw the thread title.


anyone remember what I'm trying hard but failing to refer to? Or care to correct me (I'll fully admit I could be WAY off target with tihs one)

[LongIsland]

IOWA UPDATE:

A total of 815 confirmed, probable and suspect cases of mumps have been reported to the Iowa Department of Public Health (IDPH) by the end of Monday, April 17th.

Sixty-seven counties are now experiencing activity.
We have received follow-up information on 328 cases, confirmed vaccination status on 362 cases, onset date for 810 cases and date of birth for 707 cases.

http://www.idph.state.ia.us/adper/co...ate_041806.pdf



Incidence in persons 18 years of age and under: 170 cases (age distribution chart in link). The DOH will be updating vaccination information on Thursday.

[Jen123]

had a conversation with a woman who said "We have mumps up in Iowa. It's at epidemic proportions."

I said "not that I want my kids to catch the mumps , but I wouldn't be upset if they did."

She said "I think it's the unvaccinated kids that are spreading it."
( she spoke politely , just voicing her opinion. Repeating ,I'm sure what she's heard on the news. She was oblivious to my stance)

I said "Well lemme ask you this...do you think you have that many unvaccinated children up there ? Or do you think the vaccine is failing those who have had it ?"

She sat there dumbfounded...."I hadn't that of it that way. If they were vaccinated , they shouldn't catch it."

I smiled "exactly. Makes ya think somethin' fishy is goin' on. I won't vaccinated my kids for it."

She nodded "Makes sense. Better to get it and never get it again. Especially when you are young."

Her husband pops up and says "I had a friend die of the measles back in the 40's. Couldn't throw a pin at him without hitting a spot. He was in second grade."

I asked " what other problems did he have ?"

Shaken he said " He had some form of cancer. Don't remember what."

I nodded "yup. Most healthy kids , like yourself , came thru it just fine didn't ya...and your wife over here...she nursed her kids and gave them her immunity until they were out of the danger ages"

They walked away saying "wow. Puts a whole new spin on the whole "you're going to die get your shots today" we've been hearing on the news."

baaaaa

[QueenOfThePride]

I hold the media completely at fault for

Good for you for keeping your cool and gently leading them to reason out the truth! You're a good person!

[tayndrewsmama]

Originally Posted by Jen123

Then about four months later dd comes down with a urinary tract infection. Would you like to guess what my mother told me about uti's ? The same thing her mother told her about uti's. That only "those" girls get them.

: My mom told me a similar thing about UTI's as well. Boy was I embarrassed.

Your conversation was wonderfull!!!!!

[richella]

MT -- what is a bacteriophage? Presumably an invader of bacteria. A virus?

Does anyone know about this phenomenon? I read about it in a vintage book on epidemiology. It said that, for (then) unknown reasons, diseases typically decrease in virulence over time. Eg, when syphillis first appeared, it caused oozing sores from neck to knees, and was easily spread by casual contact and from mothers to children. It was most often deadly within days or weeks. If there was an outbreak among soldiers in a battle, so many people on both sides would get it that the battle would be decided by who had the best sanitation. (That last part true of many other diseases, typhoid, diphtheria, etc.) Today, however, people usually live for many years with syphillis, and it is considered to be transmitted only by sexual contact.

One obvious explanation for this phenomenon is that people get light exposure to the pathogen and their immune sytems are prepared when it comes. This doesn't hold, though, in many cases in which there may have been no exposure to a particular individual whatsoever. Eg, a disease may come in waves, not hitting a generation at all, but then coming in the next generation, who have had no exposure, with the latter wave being much less severe a disease than earlier ones.

I wonder if anyone knows how modern epidemiologists explain this. MT, perhaps? In any case, when people start talking about whether vaxes are the reason for so many fewer deaths by childhood disease, I think of this phenomenon. It seems to explain a lot, IMO.

Anyway, the real reason I came her was to report what I heard on the news tonight. 2 confirmed cases of mumps in Wichita (Kansas), both people vaxed.

[aniT]

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

AniT, the reason you possibly got strept throat when you HAD tonsils, might have been related to whatever was causing your tonsils to suppurate in the first place.

Actually I have never had strep. My tonsils and adenoids were removed when I was 5 due to ear infections. I have never had another since they were removed. This was in the mid 70's.

[chellemarie]

Two reported cases in our county by the chart I'm seeing tonight. I vaccinated my first two children fully, not knowing I had a choice. I thought those scary episodes of 20/20 regarding adverse reactions were mean because I HAD to do it anyway!

Now I know differently. So far, my youngest is not vaxed. I have pediatricians who are pro-vax and surprisingly, MMR was one two different peds said we could probably pass on. I voiced my concern regarding Rubella and our proximity to many women of child-bearing age (lots of younger cousins breeding over here). But I wouldn't get the combo shot just to get the "R".

So, my husband and I will be discussing this, I'm sure. Knowing I have an un-vaxed toddler, I would sleep better at night knowing I was being proactive. Is there anything specific anyone recommends for both supporting the immune system and dealing with the illness?

Or am I making too much of this because Mumps is one of the Unknown Diseases?

Also, the statistic someone posted a few pages ago about 83% being vaxed? Is there a link to that information? I'm not finding it on my own.

TIA