AARGH...family stuff (very long rant) - Page 9

[rmzbm]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

If you were invited to a family event and the host calls you 2 days before requesting that you go to a private area to nurse your child because everyone there is uncomfortable with breastfeeding, what would you do?

thanks!

Be angry, like some of the PP's mentioned...and show it...and not go.

[blessed]

Originally Posted by rmzbm

Be angry, like some of the PP's mentioned...and show it...and not go.

Sure, and then on Christmas eve when the rest of your family is together you can spend the evening posting on MDC. Some of us might be around to keep you company. Or maybe we'll have all moved on from the voyeuristic pleasure of watching you implode your personal life and have forgotten all about you.

Don't buy into this childish nonsense.

There are a lot of issues with your inlaws, probably one of the least of which is their misunderstanding about nursing (you've expressed some level of understanding about this in your most recent post.) There are a lot of issues involved with maintaining intimate ties with any group of strangers, which is the situation we all find ourselves in when we embrace a lifetime partner and all of the history and baggage that person brings.

Let them make the mistakes that they will inevitably go on to regret. Don't fall into that trap. Handle yourself with maturity and tolerance. I promise, you will NEVER regret that.

[Ann-Marita]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

and despite her faults, the toxic grandmom has cancer so her time is limited, i don't want to ever be seen as the one who 'kept' dh away from spending time with her as her life approaches an end. aaargh. so complicated.

You really can't control how you are seen by others. Especially people like this. They've already made themselves clear about how they see you.

Your husband can make his own decisions. And if they blame his decisions on you, then they don't have a very high opinion of him, either.

[Victorian]

Blessed - I am confused about what you are telling the OP.

Are you saying that the mothers here are trying to encourage her to distroy her life so that we can watch for pleasure? Are you saying that she should do nothing? Swallow how she feels and do as they ask? Are you saying that they may not be right, but they are family?

I think that this is bigger than just nursing. This is a test IMO. They are testing the waters.

"your child is up late and that restricts our ability to drink. As a favor to us, would you let he CIO?"

"your unvaccinated child is endangering our germ fighting abilities. You must vaccinate them if you want to come over"

"school was good enough for our generation and you young ones just throw tradition away by homeschooling"

where does it stop?

I don't think they are ruining the family by letting them know that their boundaries are there. Boundaries are the best thing when it comes to family IMO. So maybe they will spead a Christmas with one another. Make it a trip to the beach or mountains.

We set boundaries right away with our families in regards to parenting and it has STRENGTHENED the relationship. We no long spend wasted time on these trival matters, instead we spend that time visiting.

Victorian

[BelgianSheepDog]

What Ann-Marita and Victorian said. IME, if a family is in the habit of making scapegoats, and you've been declared "it," there's nothing you can do about it. Consider it their problem, don't make yourself crazy trying to be perfect.

[mamachandi]

Originally Posted by blessed

Sure, and then on Christmas eve when the rest of your family is together you can spend the evening posting on MDC. Some of us might be around to keep you company. Or maybe we'll have all moved on from the voyeuristic pleasure of watching you implode your personal life and have forgotten all about you.

Don't buy into this childish nonsense.

There are a lot of issues with your inlaws, probably one of the least of which is their misunderstanding about nursing (you've expressed some level of understanding about this in your most recent post.) There are a lot of issues involved with maintaining intimate ties with any group of strangers, which is the situation we all find ourselves in when we embrace a lifetime partner and all of the history and baggage that person brings.

Let them make the mistakes that they will inevitably go on to regret. Don't fall into that trap. Handle yourself with maturity and tolerance. I promise, you will NEVER regret that.

I totally disagree with blessed. they will get over it and this will all blow over and they will never ask you to go in another room to nurse again. It may take time but they will come around believe me, from the sound of the letters they are intelligent, caring people and they are confused and mad they didn't just get their way right now. But they will come around.
I agree with victorian. My IL's are very controlling. and it started out with just a few things and we relented to keep 'harmony' and it just created this huge domino affect of control. we finally put our foot down, established boundaries and we are much happier for it. My IL's didn't like it but they love us more than whatever issue was at stake so they just (for the most part,lol!) keep it to themselves and we have lovely holidays and get togethers. though there have been times where I've stayed home to prove a point and I am glad I did because it shows them I take my life and beliefs seriously. They have (after many years) told us they respect us for our convictions and have even began preaching (in a good way) to their friends about us and our "ways". Our now 11 year old is very mature and responsible for her age so the whole "she'll never be independant or be able to console/comfort herself" attitude about cio and co-sleeping has proved inaccurate and my dd is the proof. If and when they come around-good luck mama.

[blessed]

There's a big difference between standing resolute in your beliefs and the recommendations of some other posters:

1. refuse to participate in extended family functions
2. withdraw all the members of your immediate family from extended family functions, and
3. choosing to be "angry - and show it" when you communicate your own needs

All of the above actions are difficult to construe any other way than throwing down the gauntlet and - potentially - severing the relationships.

If the original communications had been less accusatory and 'angry' things would likely be looking very different for that family at this moment.

It's all very interesting for the rest of us to sit back and watch, with the occasional 'atta girl! You tell 'em!' But this isn't an employee at Fred Meyers that M is communicating with. These are people with whom she hopes to maintain a close and loving relationship with for the rest of her and K's lifetime. The suggestions being tossed out are ones which are not conducive toward this end.

[Momtwice]

3. choosing to be "angry - and show it" when you communicate your own needs

Which is why we had a discusssion about the difficult balance between honoring one's own feelings and that of the other person.

[EFmom]

If you were invited to a family event and the host calls you 2 days before requesting that you go to a private area to nurse your child because everyone there is uncomfortable with breastfeeding, what would you do?

I would simply say, "I'm sorry, but under the circumstances, I can't attend. I hope you have a great day."

The way I see this is that your ILs have a right to be offended by your bf. They have a right to set the rules in their own home.

You have every right to decline invitations to places where you don't feel welcome.

You can invite the family to family functions at your home or at a restaurant or park at any time. You just aren't welcome in their homes.

If your inlaws are too uncomfortable to come to your house or meet in a public place out of fear you might bf, that is their decision.

I think what you are doing is entirely reasonable. Your inlaws may or may not come around on this issue. If they don't, well, you won't be bf forever.

I hardly think anyone is "imploding their personal life." I had some disagreements with my inlaws over some other issues in the early days of my marriage. The only reason these issues were ever resolved was because I showed them (politely) that I have a backbone. There was a good bit of family angst, handwringing, and I'm sure, calling me names behind my back, but things got worked out just fine. I think some inlaws tend to see their DILs as children, just as they have a hard time visualizing their own married children as adults. Sometimes you just have to stand up for yourself.

[fiveredhens]

If the original communications had been less accusatory and 'angry' things would likely be looking very different for that family at this moment.

Really? I hope you are refering to the communication by the ILs and not the OP. If not, how about this one:

If the woman would have had on a less provactive outfit, she would not have been raped.

Or,

If the woman had just made sure that she had dinner ready on time and the house was sparkling clean, her husband would not have had to beat her.

Or,

If the two year old had not spilled his drink on the floor, he would not have needed a spanking.

I work in the field of mental health. What you are suggesting is incredibly insulting and damaging. Also, it makes people INCREDIBLY defensive and blocks them from hearing anything useful you might have to say in the future. I have read your posts and you do have some nice suggestions, however, by personally attacking someone and saying they brought this misery upon themself in such a condesending and self-righteous manner is not helpful in the least.

Just think if we spent our time and energy educating and working with the "batterers" and "abusers" in this world instead of blaming the victims, people like myself would be out of business. Personally, I would love that.

[DeeEast]

Originally Posted by fiveredhens

What you are suggesting is incredibly insulting and damaging. Also, it makes people INCREDIBLY defensive and blocks them from hearing anything useful you might have to say in the future. I have read your posts and you do have some nice suggestions, however, by personally attacking someone and saying they brought this misery upon themself in such a condesending and self-righteous manner is not helpful in the least.

:

[blessed]

No one has been raped.
No one has been beaten.
No child has been spanked.

The ILs politely asked if M would mind refraining from breastfeeding in their presence because it made them uncomfortable. That's it. That's the heinous crime they committed which led to this uproar.

In keeping with the 'go get 'em!' carnival atmosphere here, the initial response from dh, although an eloquent defense of his and M's feelings, unfortunately also included a completely unrelated and downright vicious personal attack on the grand ILs, referring to them as 'poisonous' 'destructive' and 'the primary cause of so much pain and discomfort in our family.'

Ouch. How would YOU feel to be 'discussed' in such a manner by your family members? Would you EVER be able to forgive someone who spoke about you in such a manner to people you love?

Really, be honest, who threw the first punch here?

My point is a good one. If you launch into things with an emotional 'gloves off' approach, you're going to end up with a brawl and people are going to get hurt.

Enough damage is done. Getting 'angry' and 'showing it' is not the right answer if M, dh and K want to continue building trust relationships with the ILs. Everyone needs to act with a little caution, a little tolerance, and a lot more kindness.

[runes]

originally, i did agree to accommodate their 'polite' request to not breastfeed in front on their house. i am of the mind that however nicely they asked, it's still a rude thing to ask, but being the people pleaser that i am, i was willing to remove myself from the family festivities to nurse my daughter. even though this was against my principles, in the interest of family harmony and deferring to the respect of them in their house, at that point i acquiesced. up until that moment, they had candy-coated the bitter pill enough for me to swallow it.

the following morning, i received a 'thank you' email from my fil, in which he made the very unwise choice to try to explain his views on the matter, citing that he only expected to see breasts in "the doctors office, Playboy, the bedroom and the strip club", and that as members of the younger generation, we are "quick to throw out tradition" and act in a way that is crude and without class.

for me, that's really when the gloves came off. i realized that in this context, i would be party to their incredibly sexist and self-righteous attitude on the matter every single time i got up to leave to room. to do this would be completely and utterly against every inkling of integrity that i have, and i believe that if i had gone, i would have left that party with my self-respect in the toilet. yes, i own up to making some assumptions about them and not presenting my case in the kindest of ways, although under the circumstances i do believe that i exercised a great deal of restraint in my letter declining to attend the family party. as blessed has mentioned, perhaps i could have been wiser and shown more tolerance for my choice of words, but i was angry and upset and although i acknowledge this i am not apologetic of my very valid feelings.

dh and i have sent seperate correspondences to recommend to them that any further dialog on this subject occur in person, because of the overt misunderstanding and miscommunication happening on both sides. our request was very respectfully worded, and i also included my very loving and heartfelt condolences on the passing of their dog, which happened the day after the family event. in any case, our intent was to stop the mudslinging and reading between the lines that has been happening on both sides, and we absolutely admitted to and took responsibility for our part in this drama.

well, this morning we just received yet another 7 page diatribe, addressed only from smil. i was shaking as i read it, and it has become quite apparent to dh and i that we are dealing with a person who, at best, is emotionally unstable, and, at worst, is psychotic. our request for a face-to-face meeting to come to the peace table was met with unbelievable criticism, judgement, finger pointing, guilt and punishment. it was an absolute rage against us and meant to hurt us.

i can be tolerant and understanding to a certain extent. when my moral character, integrity, and intentions are put up on the block like that, with the specific intent to control, manipulate and hurt me and those i love, from a person who is an "intimate stranger" to me, with someone who besides sharing a last name with i have almost nothing in common with, i think i do need to go into self-protective mode here and close the door.

we have seen this kind of behavior from smil before, aimed at others, and we were too quick to dismiss it as we so wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt. now that we're the ones in the throes of her wrath, we are coming to understand that there are many many many more complicating factors than just a simple act of asking to not see breastfeeding in her home.

i admit, i tried to set a boundary for myself, which is a healthy thing to do. i admit i didn't do it in the nicest of ways, but i was angry and upset at the time. i don't think that what i did is deserving of this kind of punishment. i'm an adult now, i won't allow someone to abuse me in this way. i feel like this is her way of saying "see, little girl, this is what happens when you dare to defy me", to guilt me and shame me from ever standing up to them ever again. ultimately, it's become clear to me that this entire episode was absolutely not a simple, heartfelt request from them, but very much a power play. i called them on it and they freaked.

i'm still struggling with how to find some peace and resolution, just for my own sake and not for the sake of continuing a relationship with these people, and doing it in a loving, mindful way. in any case, i've decided to meditate on how best to move forward.

[blessed]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

...the following morning, i received a 'thank you' email from my fil, in which he made the very unwise choice to try to explain his views on the matter, citing that he only expected to see breasts in "the doctors office, Playboy, the bedroom and the strip club", and that as members of the younger generation, we are "quick to throw out tradition" and act in a way that is crude and without class.

...for me, that's really when the gloves came off.

M, please don't forget that FIL had seen and was reacting to the unkind characterizations about his parents when he wrote these snarky words. These were the first words that left you and dh stinging, but they weren't the first words which were thrown out with the intent to hurt. There was already blood on the field.

Honestly, the man would have to be a virtual saint to be able to construct a completely benign reply at this point. All things considered, he showed remarkable self constraint. Really, all he did here is bluster about a perceived lack of modesty, true? He's an old man from a different generation. Forgive him a little if he slipped in his anger.

In retrospect, conceding to their intial request was not the best thing to do, and I think probably contributed to the resentment and sense of exploitation that you and dh felt. This is something that the two of you (the three of you, really) feel very strongly about! You have every right to be firm in your resolution to it and really ought not compromise your ideals.

So stand firm. But be gentle, be gentle, little one .

Yours and dh's words wield far more power than you know.

[blessed]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

well, this morning we just received yet another 7 page diatribe, addressed only from smil. i was shaking as i read it...

Oh honey

[BelgianSheepDog]

Ack, I'm sorry to hear that you got yet another diatribe today. Definitely sounds like some kind of power/control issue going on, and you called bluff and now they're not happy. I'm sorry it's all spiraling like this.

[runes]

thank you all for keeping up with this thread, reading your responses (and debates) has been incredibly eye opening for me, as i really want to see this with as many perspectives as possible.

blessed, i have SO appreciated all of your posts, you've been very intuitive with some of your insights especially given that i haven't shared a lot of the back story and baggage that precipitated this nonsense. you sensed it, i think, and made some excellent points that we very much appreciate.

i just have to clarify that my dh's letter with the grandparent's alcoholism stuff (which btw dh really regrets sending ) was sent AFTER we received fil's so called 'thank you' letter. so in this regard, we still feel like his letter was the 'gloves off' moment. that's why we went from perceiving 'the request to not breastfeed' as more than a simple request. and yes, through all of this, fil has been a blockhead and despite his unapologetic sexism and "we're your elders, do as we say" attitude, i don't sense the need to hurt us or punish us that we have gotten from his wife.

thanks for the hugs, i really need them right now (and i think dh needs them more than me, too...)

fiveredhens...thanks so much for your input as well, your insight helped me so much. i have a very hard time acknowledging and expressing my anger, even in a case where it is justified. you also helped to articulate to me that i was in fact feeling 'victimized' by the power play that both dh and i intuited before all this broke out.

[runes]

Originally Posted by fiveredhens

Just think if we spent our time and energy educating and working with the "batterers" and "abusers" in this world instead of blaming the victims, people like myself would be out of business. Personally, I would love that.

yes

[p1gg1e]

((Hugs))

My SMIL has mental issues also and it takes alot of control to deal with them. I personaly have found putting boundries up and not talking about our parenting decisions helpful. I dont tell them that we co-sleep , are still breastfeeding, not vaxing. We also have never talked about relgion or for that matter politics. they always assume and tell others things sbout us and well sometimes they are just so funny. Like the last family get together I was told by my DH's aunt that I dont like to cook . She heard this from SMIL. or that DH and I where living together before we where married ( also not true). The only know I'm stll nurseing becuase I nurse there for I am I dont ask or tell them anything.

I also have worked on saying no. She trys to word things like "here Willa can have this." and give WIlla milk or something just so I will say "No, I rather her not have this it will make her sick."

Coming up with outs like, "I have to get some water "or "hold on I have to grab Willa!"

Also not making ourselves avilable. I will never leave my child alone with the IL's because of safety and trust issues. You dont have to cut the relationship off, boundries and letting it be on your terms has worked well. I dont expect nor do I try to talk to them about this problem because they wont listen nor will it help these are not rasional people.

Also when SMIL has a "Snit" about something and hasa tantrum I get REAL nice. Its makes her angry but also makes her look really silly to others because of her behavior. HTH

[Joannarachel]

This is just awful. I do not believe you are in any way at fault for the tasteless way these people are behaving.