AARGH...family stuff (very long rant) - Page 3

[BelgianSheepDog]

You totally rock!! I'm glad you're standing up for yourself and that your DH is standing by you!

[Baby Makes 4]

Good for you! Please keep us updated on their response.

[runes]

surprise surprise...no response yet.

dh sent this email right after i sent mine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As you can probably imagine, M lost her second night of sleep tossing and turning, trying to figure out what was the right thing to do. She worked diligently on that e-mail, choosing her words very carefully. Her intent was to try and convey to both of you how she is feeling and how difficult of a spot she is being placed. We either have to sacrifice our own beliefs and principles to appease others, or take a stand and be firm with what we hold sacred. Our decision on this particular topic not only influences what those in our family think, but what those around us see in how we decide to act. We are an example to our family, our community and society.

We are all aware of how strong-willed the women in the H family are. As you are learning, M can be as strong, if not stronger, than all of the other H women. M tends to keep her mouth shut when she disagrees with family members around her. Part of this is because she is not the kind of person who enjoys confrontation, particularly when a resolution seems unlikely. And part of this is because she is respectful towards family and her elders. However, when backed into a corner (especially involving K), she will be as resolute as you are now seeing.

I'm picturing the H family being confused why M and I are making such a big deal about this. We don't see it this way. We are the ones that are confused how the H family could draw a line in the sand on this particular issue. Particularly, considering some of the other clearly damaging family behavior that seems to make its appearance on a regular basis and is tolerated. As I have already stated, it is very difficult for us to be confronted on this relatively benign issue (in our opinion), while others in this family are giving a free pass in the name of "honoring one's parents".

In addition, I want to make a very important point about my wife. M has bent over backwards repeatedly with the H family. Despite having extremely different political and spiritual views, and a very different style of communicating (compared to the H family), she has stuck by my side at every family gathering and always gone the extra mile.

She attended the past Christmas at your house, when she was so beaten down by her medical situation. She was physically uncomfortable in ways that I will not even describe. And she spent 6 hours in a car when she went to introduce K to the grandparents, with tubes sticking out of her in the most uncomfortable of places. Instead of honoring our obvious effort, the grandparents were drinking and making us uncomfortable as usual. If they thought our breastfeeding in front of them made them uncomfortable, they should be aware of just how uncomfortable we were with being subjected to their alcohol induced abuse of each other as well as us. But M stuck by my side.

She has gone to your church for special occasions that are important to you. Both of us do these kinds of things because we love you and we love our family. We are respecting you when we go to your church. And it makes us feel good because we know it is important to you and we enjoy spending time with both of you.

In addition, M has tolerated numerous uncomfortable family situations with Dad's parents who can make our experience quite unpleasant. And all the while, she has been respectful and courteous to EVERYONE in this family. Perhaps this is why people felt they could approach me with possibly "controlling" M on this topic.

People are now going to see a different side of M - a strong, mindful momma bear that will be undeterred in our well planned vision of how she and I want our daughter to be raised. We are not going to raise a child in the H manner of having them "seen and not heard". We are very fearful that our parenting will constantly be judged and more importantly criticized by the H family. As we are seeing, it has already begun. This will not be acceptable. As we have already determined, people are entitled to their own opinions regarding these very important and emotional topics. But it is going to be very hard for M, K and I, if we are feeling attacked or judged at every family gathering. Even if M and I decided to tolerate it, we would never subject K to this.

M and I are choosing a very different parenting path from some of the other H's who have come before us. We want to have our path unconditionally accepted and respected. Just like we unconditionally accept and respect other's choices that are different from ones that we would make.

I've been trying to think of how we can get you to understand why we are uncomfortable with what we are being asked. The best analogy I can think of is the following: We know how important saying grace is to both of you. And you both know that M and I are not Christians. We understand that for you, saying grace is a very important spiritual activity that also has value in terms of family bonding. In reality, we respect this tradition that you embrace. But, what if we asked you to refrain from saying grace under our roof because it made us feel uncomfortable? Or worse, what if we asked you to leave the table to say grace, calling it a private matter (which for many it is), and then you could return later?

I understand that breastfeeding and grace are not the same thing. But I'm trying to show you how uncomfortable you might feel if we turned the tables and placed this kind of request on you regarding something which you believed in strongly.

As you have probably guessed, I will not be attending today's function as well. I support my wife 100% on her stance and her last e-mail to you. I think she worded it more than fairly. Rather than show up and place everyone in a very uncomfortable position, we are respectfully declining to join the family gathering. This way, we will not be placed in an uncomfortable position, and the H family will feel more comfortable with their surroundings that are clearly very important to them.

It is unfortunate that we will be missing this particular family gathering. We have a fairly large group of family in town, it is F's birthday, Grandmom is ill, and of course it is Easter weekend. But M and I feel strongly about making a stand here. This issue is very important to us and it will most likely lead to discussions of other issues regarding parenting.

Having said all of that, M, K and I love all of you very much. We know this is a difficult discussion, but a necessary one. We truly hope with all of our hearts that we will be able to resolve this issue and put it behind us as soon as possible. As always, M and I welcome further discussions.

[TiredX2]

Wow, I cannot tell you how impressed I am

Excellent letters. You really expressed your selves well and politely, IMO.

Good luck.

[Quagmire]

Wow Michele, good job standing up for yourself and your baby! That was an amazing letter... really well thought-out and kind given the subject matter.

And major MAJOR kudos to your DH for following up like he did. What a great husband you have! You guys obviously love and support each other a great deal, and I think you're all just awesome

Keep us posted on the response!

[runes]

the silence is deafening...we've not received ANY type of response or acknowledgement.

dh and i have officially deemed ourselves 'in the doghouse'. honestly, we're liberated by it. we've always been the nice ones but we're not going to allow ourselves to be trampled just because we happen to be kind people.

not anymore! i kinda like it. i have been so impressed with dh through all of this, he is a lactivist to the core.

even if they come back to us with an olive branch, i feel obligated to call fil on his incredibly sexist sentiments. i cannot with good conscience let him get away with thinking and writing that he expects to only see breasts in doctor's offices, bedrooms, playboy, strip clubs, and to go so far as to rationalize that in the name of so called 'traditionalism'. what an idiot, i can't believe he had the audacity to write that and and i'm not going to let him off easy on that one. dh has asked me to wait a while to do this and i've agreed to do so with the caveat that i WILL do it, i'm just going to wait.

i don't think they even had a darn clue what a mess this was going to become for them. they just thought that it would be no big deal for me to remove myself from the room and everyone would be happy. ha ha, if they only knew what a firestorm they were in for. for me, the biggest insult is that they've ganged up on me, a basically good person who happens to be nourishing and nurturing her precious infant in the best way she knows how, and judging me and crucifying me...when there is not one other person in the family who hasn't done truly awful things like affairs, alcoholism, verbal/emotional abuse and served prison time. as a group, they are highly dysfunctional and they've taken it upon themselves as a form of 'sport' to vilify the one person who they perceived as the 'weakest' or most defenseless and this time, it was me. boy, did they ever peg me wrong.

i have a question for you wise mamas...even if everything ends up fairly smoothed over, i no longer feel comfortable nursing in from of fil and smil (they're the ones that we see most often on that side of the family). we usually see them in public venues ie: restaurants. my game plan is to leave the table when dd wants to nurse, but situate myself in another part of the restaurant, not hiding but just away from them. so they would know that i was nursing, and doing so publicly, just not in front of them. i would feel completely comfortable nursing before complete strangers but not sitting at a table with il's. would this be an ok thing to do, or kind of inflammatory and basically an f-you statement? my gut feeling is that with what they put us through, i don't care a whit whether they're offended by this or not...i just want to put dd and i in the most comfortable place possible and that is not in front of them, that's for sure!

thanks again for your support and words of encouragement, they mean so much to both dh and i through this stressful time. i hope that other nursing moms don't have to deal with this kind of nonsense, but unfortunately i have a sinking feeling that this drama plays out much too often in families all across the country. how sad.

[sapphire_chan]

"K needs to nurse now, but I can give you two a moment to find some place more comfortable first. Dh'll come and get you when we're done."

Why should you have to leave the table? And people who ask nursing mothers to leave "for their comfort" are really asking for their own comfort, so the parallel is perfect.

But I suspect this would have been a better response *before* things escalated./


Now waiting for the diplomatic mamas' ideas.

[Ann-Marita]

This was my first thought as well! Why should you have to leave the table?

But then, maybe that would be stooping to their level. I mean, you asking them to leave for your comfort is similar to them asking you to leave for their comfort.

I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. But I think it is a very VERY valuable thing to have established a firm boundary with this family, and early on in your child's life.

It sounds like these people are toxic.

[mamabain]

love your emails, you and your hubby rock! your dd is blessed to have you!

nak:

[flminivanmama]

the email you didn't send was awesome - if he does write back you can use it in response LOL

Good for you & good for your DH!

[njeb]

About the deafening silence....my guess is that right now they're busy with their dinner and socializing. Once everyone is home and the house is quiet again, then they might e-mail you back. You may have to wait till tonight or tomorrow before you get a response.

to you and your dh for standing up to your in-laws!

[~Megan~]

check out gentlemothering.com for articles from a christian perspective that will be very helpful to you.

I guess I don't see what the deal is. Your dh clearly stated that you were covered and your fil is taking issue with seeing a breast in public. Which is it? Are you modest or flashing?

And btw, you can't post his email on here but feel free to paraphrase for copyright concerns.

Thanks

[RachelGS]

There is also an element of "honoring" ones parent that come from the Bible, which we also adhere to.

Um, Jesus was breastfed, no? Think Mary went to sit in a closet to do it?

I'm very impressed with your DH.

[earthie_mama]

Wow! Good writing genes....I will be using some of those phrases at our next reunion. When my MIL once handed me a drape while I was bfing, I said "what a lovely idea, if you put it over your face you wont have to see me nursing" lol

Am I a bad person or what?

[Bethla]

Thank you for sharing your situation with us. I have been reading all your emails to my dh and he has also been sitting on the edge of his chair with each response. Never thought my dh would be so into breastfeeding! It makes a big difference when you have a partner that supports you and stands up for your family's beliefs. Thank you for taking a stand on this! It means a lot to those of us that value NIP. Good luck to your family and enjoy your precious nursing time with your daughter!

[runes]

mamaotwo-i will edit my post with fil's email, i had forgotten it's against the ua. thanks for the gentle reminder, it was an honest flub on my part. and thank you so much for the link, i am very much wanting to learn more about things from their perspective so that i can understand this situation better. fwiw, fil became christian only about 6 years ago so this wouldn't pertain to the way he parented his own kids but it would be valuable information just the same.

you're right, we're really confused as to what the big deal is about this, we've only seen them about 3-4 times since dd was born and i have fully covered dd and i up each time. the last time we saw them, dd was very distractible and was squirmy and popping on/off a lot under the blanket...i realized it was because she was uncomfortable, she was burning up under there and was so sweaty, so i removed myself from the table and went to an empty, out of the way table in the restaurant to nurse. i was still really discreet and i am absolutely sure no one even saw me, i just couldn't continue to keep poor dd under wraps when she was clearly so hot and sweaty.

another weird thing is that after the first time they asked me how long k was going to breastfeed, i answered that on doctor's orders we're going to try to get to at least 24 months (off topic-i love our ped and i love being able to use him as a reason for our plans to extended bf to people who might not understand). they about nearly had a heart attack upon learning that news. it's interesting that they keep asking me the same question over and over...it's like they don't like the answer so they're hoping that i'll answer differently some day. not a chance. what's the saying...the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? well, there you go.

sapphire-chan-love it! i always love your posts and your clever, intellegent and sharp witted humor. count me a fan!

earthie-mama...lol! i love that response and will have to file it away in my arsenal. you rock. i can only imagine the look on your mil's face!

rachelgs-true, so true. i am actually researching some biblical and historical references to breastfeeding, so your point is very important. if anyone knows of any specifics about jesus and the people of his day and their nursing practices, it would be greatly appreciated.

bethla, njeb, flminivanmama, mamabain, quagmire, babymakes4, ann-marita, tiredx2, belgiansheepdog and all of the other mamas who are reading this thread-thanks for the support and for keeping up with my sometimes long posts!

oh, and by the way, still no news from them.

[lauriebeth]

wow, i am shocked. i cant imagine anyone being THAT bothered by NIP (I dont even really consider nursing at yoru ILS NIP) to ask that you dont do it.

I am so sorry that your ILS said this. I jsut wouldnt go, but then again, I dont have a good relationship with my ILS, I dont know if you do and want to keep the peace.

[blessed]

How sad.

I can't imagine but that an emotional and physical separation between your family and your child's grandparents can be anything other than harmful for everyone involved.

To be honest, the part that made me feel the most hurt and sad for your family was the 'gross' comment made in response to your FILs obviously heartfelt attempt to re-establish trust and connection. I sensed his discomfort and his very human need to try to defend the proposal he'd made, but with regards to the members of the family, I heard only love and a desire to make amends.

How much nicer if your family had been able to simply respond "I'm sorry. This is an important choice for us and we feel very strongly about upholding it. Naturally, it would make M feel very sad and isolated if we asked her to leave the family gathering each time we needed to provide nourishment for your grandchild.

Breastfeeding is a beautiful, natural and necessary act, and we feel saddened and confused about your discomfort. We would like to talk to you about this more, but in the meantime you should know that I would never ask my wife and daughter to exit our company in order for M to attend to K as any loving mother would. Please let us know if you feel that this is an arrangement which the two of you can be reasonably comfortable with."

It's a shame all that displaced anger about the drinking ended up in this discussion. Now there are multiple issues and affronts going on simultaneously. It will be very difficult to get back to a place where people trust each other with their feelings again.

I feel like I just witnessed the dissolution of a family.

[sapphire_chan]

You mean you've been covering with a blanket in front of them all this time?!? Wow. I thought your FIL's response was lousy when I thought there might have been the teeny tiniest bit of breast showing, but you've actually been covering with a blanket and leaving the table when that isn't possible!

Go ahead and go out to restaurants with them and nurse exactly as you are comfortable. If they look the slightest bit disapproving your dh can point out that they might be more comfortable sitting in the bar for a bit. If they complain to him, it's like "we tried to make you comfortable, but that obviously didn't work, so now we're doing what we should have done in the first place."

[pjlioness]

Originally Posted by earthie_mama

Wow! Good writing genes....I will be using some of those phrases at our next reunion. When my MIL once handed me a drape while I was bfing, I said "what a lovely idea, if you put it over your face you wont have to see me nursing" lol

Am I a bad person or what?

*snork*