How do you know if a child is being molested? - Page 2

[twilight girl]

I would agree, not normal. Now, kids can come up with some weird stuff on their own, but the two things you mentioned are not right. How old is the brother?

[cobluegirl]

how incredibly sad.

[Threefold]

I agree that while kids can concoct some wild stuff on their own, normally 8 year olds giggle and spell out "s-e-x" and experiement with words like "balls" and "boobs", and nothing more explicit. It could come from exposure to "adult" media, sure, but even that, IMHO, is abusive.
The grounding (not a discipline "technique" I would use, but ) for talking about a family game is a red flag.

[RainCoastMama]

Well, hang on a minute here....

Gonna talk as a soon-to-be-ex CPS worker here and my disclaimer is that this is NOT professional advice, not to be taken as professional advice for any action, and not to be used beyond the purposes of discussion here... (have to put that disclaimer in there).

A child talking about sexual issues 'beyond their years' can come from anywhere. Older siblings and their friends, accidental access to porn (including late night tv), evesdropping on grownups, you name it - kids are curious and this kind of thing is totally intriguing. You wouldn't believe the stuff I've heard from the mouths of babes to have it explained by embarrassed parents/babysitters/etc. Sometimes kids act this stuff out as a way of exploring peer relationships, exerting their 'special knowledge' to feel important, and so on. Preschoolers play doctor, but I'll tell ya...older kids play 'doctor' and more as well.

Not discounting that something didn't happen, but 3rd to 4th hand information without any other kind of historical or contextual information is dangerous. If those two things are the only factors to flag sexual abuse...hmm...not substantial enough, especially without physical evidence which is the primary factor in determining if something was done.

Baby crying...maybe back to ramble more (or not if it's too late )

[Dakota's Mom]

I respectfully have to disagree. Children do explore each other's and their own bodies. This is normal childhood play. But children do not ask other children to kiss or lick their body parts or talk about the white stuff unless they have been sexually abused. Abuse does not always mean that they have been physically molested. It is also abuse to allow children to witness acts of sex or to watch pornographic videos or the like. If you are going to watch this stuff, make sure your kids are no where around or that the door has a good lock on it. To witness sexual acts, to have adults expose their parts to children, or to watch pornography is sexual abuse and it is against the law in every state. This child needs to be protected.

One of the children on my case load started pulling down his pull-up and telling other children to "lickmy boody" or "kiss my peepee." Turns out his mother was taking him with her while she was prostituting to get drugs. Three year olds just don't know these kind of words.

Kathi

[RainCoastMama]

Originally Posted by Dakota's Mom

I respectfully have to disagree. Children do explore each other's and their own bodies. This is normal childhood play. But children do not ask other children to kiss or lick their body parts or talk about the white stuff unless they have been sexually abused. Abuse does not always mean that they have been physically molested. It is also abuse to allow children to witness acts of sex or to watch pornographic videos or the like. If you are going to watch this stuff, make sure your kids are no where around or that the door has a good lock on it. To witness sexual acts, to have adults expose their parts to children, or to watch pornography is sexual abuse and it is against the law in every state. This child needs to be protected.

One of the children on my case load started pulling down his pull-up and telling other children to "lickmy boody" or "kiss my peepee." Turns out his mother was taking him with her while she was prostituting to get drugs. Three year olds just don't know these kind of words.

Kathi

You'd be surprised. Really. I did a slew of SA investigations from all age ranges and a small percentage of them pointed to actual abuse as opposed to what I mentioned above. It's not to discount that abuse happens - not at all, god no - but keep in the back of your minds that little pitchers have big ears/eyes, and a lot more is picked up on the playground than parents think.

If the talk is accompanied by physical evidence (obvious - don't have to describe), or psychosomatic illness (stomach aches, etc), or unusual behaviours (regression, eneuresis/encopresis, violence, perpetrating upon other children, etc.), drawings, that would be more concerning. What the OP described didn't point to this, in particular. But of course, no one will have the whole story unless an investigation was performed.

Always call CPS if you think a child is being harmed.

[JustJamie]

Originally Posted by RainCoastMama

If the talk is accompanied by physical evidence (obvious - don't have to describe), or psychosomatic illness (stomach aches, etc), or unusual behaviours (regression, eneuresis/encopresis, violence, perpetrating upon other children, etc.), drawings, that would be more concerning. What the OP described didn't point to this, in particular. But of course, no one will have the whole story unless an investigation was performed.

Always call CPS if you think a child is being harmed.

Wouldn't the game of "doctor" as described be considered perpetrating on other children?

[Nature]

I think it depends on the ages of the children "playing doctor." If they are within the same age bracket than not nessasarily. Kids do often explore each other, even those who haven't been abused.

[mmgarda]

My own experiences

I would just like to share that at the age of 8 I would absolutely have known exactly what the girl was talking about, and could have made the same "jokes." (for lack of a better term)

I WAS NOT ABUSED.

I know a PP said that exposing children to pornography or sexual acts is abusive. I would like to point out that my parents had their adult entertainment well-hidden and certainly didn't parade their sexuality around, but I was a snoopy little thing and found it anyway. I knew it was private, so I didn't discuss it with them, but I sure checked it out and read the stories and looked at the pictures.

I agree that you should ALWAYS call CPS if you think a child is being harmed. I just wanted to share my own experience as additional food for thought for those who are shocked at what an 8 year old might do or say.

FWIW, I have a very healthy, very normal relationship with my parents, my DH and my sons.

[Viewfinder]

Older kids... with younger kids

OoH, "Protecting the Gift:" excellent book about protecting our children from being victimized, very useful facts, not alarmist. Just information.

My 7 year-old participated in "Summer Camp" with the city's Parks and Rec dept. Unbeknownst to me, there were kids in the same program doing joint activities and free play activities with kids up to age 14!! I didn't LIKE that, but, it's life... gotta give some freedoms and faith... there were many staffers always present, such as hormonal teenagers can be.

One day, my little towhead asked me "if men really put their w----s into other men's 'down there', and into their (pointing into mouth)." EEEEK.

Yikes. Kids do hear and see some things... shoot, I remember a good friend of mine who moved to another state in 6th grade mailed me the most graphic sex magazine I have ever seen. Many hetero sex acts were depicted from start to finish. My own abuse was in full repression at that point in my life. I was HORRIFIED. I sent it back to her so fast it burned the mailbox.

I've got good radar for danger... earned it the old fashioned way: I was sexually abused in very early childhood. If the following story is the entire measure of my life, it is enough.

When my own little girl was two, I had to enroll her in a childcare so I could take some classes. I had ONE choice that had the extended hours I would need to attend night classes.

I met with the mature director woman; she took me to the classroom, it was during naptime. Teacher was stroking one girl child to sleep, had child in his lap on the floor with kids all around him. Typical thing for a baby care worker to have to soothe a child to sleep in some cases. He was a young man, innocent looking. He had child care degree and good credentials; director bragging away. I got the creeps. This teacher-boy of maybe 22 would not even look at me while he stroked this kid's hair, even though I was down on the floor not two feet from his face. But, I needed this child care. I told myself I was being oversensitive, that maybe it would be great for my daughter to have a nice male figure. I'm single. I registered her.

But, I could not sleep that night! I kept thinking, "This guy is going to be changing dd's diaper. NOOOOO!" I couldn't do it, I couldn't risk it. I lost my college classes for that semester.

Three months later, I saw a local newspaper and guess who's face was on the cover for molesting NUMBERS of children in his care, both boys and girls? Yes, him, that very guy who I almost entrusted my child to. He took advantage of kids DURING the day, while three or four other teachers were in the building!

I regret that I did not register my discomfort with the director, but, she was SOLD on him, hook, line and sinker. I worried that I was being alarmist, etc. Now, of course, I know better and honor my gut feelings more, and know that had I done so before, MAYBE a few kids might have been protected from this man, who is now in prison.

With a parent as suspected abuser, I myself would make an up close and personal visit and discuss my concerns. Give them a chance to explain, express concern, and for me to get a feel--if my child is spending time with this child, it's reasonable. I trust my own radar. Maybe the other parent is ALSO concerned, would appreciate the benefit of the doubt, and the trouble is coming from somewhere ELSE. Molesters are crafty about it. Out there getting childcare degrees... coaching... playing with their much younger siblings' friends...

[cobluegirl]

I agree Vanessa...Protecting the Gift is indeed a good book.. you can often times find it at goodwill too.

[Attached Mama]

question for those of you who think it doens't souind like abuse... did the child just make up that game???

IMHO those are definite signs of abuse! I pray the child finds someone she can trust to tell the truth to and gets the help she needs!!!

[RainCoastMama]

Originally Posted by Attached Mama

question for those of you who think it doens't souind like abuse... did the child just make up that game???

IMHO those are definite signs of abuse! I pray the child finds someone she can trust to tell the truth to and gets the help she needs!!!

She could have. Maybe not. Who knows? You really can't jump to any conclusion without specific types of investigatory proecedures and the info provided in the OPs post was not enough to point to abuse in itself.