8 cavities in 22 month old- Update on pg. 2 - Page 2

[Kirsten]

Oh, I am so sorry. I can't say I know how you feel but I imagine it must be a terrible feeling.

My dd1 had a cavity filled when she was three. I have only had one cavity in my life so was of course horrified that my perfect firstborn had a cavity. With a bit older child, and a really, really great pediatric dentist, I think sedation is an ok option. It worked for us. But that was a 3 year old with one cavity, both parents by her side, the great calming dentist and his assistant in a private room.

In your situation, I would definitely to general anesthesia. I would be scared too but I think it is clearly the best option you have. I am glad you found someone who will do the work soon and in a hospital where your insurance will cover some of it.

Re: the night nursing - some here will believe there is a link to cavities and some won't. It sounds like you believe that it is partially to blame. I can't say I disagree with you. It is at least worth avoiding for a month or two or three to see if there is any change.

My kids all night nursed if/when they were in bed with me. Would wake up each time they got to light sleep and there is that milk smell right there and they'd latch on. Even happened if they were in our room but not our bed. But when they were in their own rooms, they all slept through the night (like babies....) without needing to nurse. For us, it was something they did if it was right there available but they were fine without it when it wasn't right there.

Parenting is hard; it is just full of decisions we don't want to make. But you will all get through this. In a year or two, it will be a very distant memory and so many other things will be in the forefront. Come here or to friends/family IRL for much needed support during this time leading up to her dental day.

[mamasgirls]

Update-
My dd had the general anesthesia today. There was a last minute cancellation on Friday and the called and asked if we wanted it- I really wanted to get it taken care of sooner than later and was happy to have it done today.

My dh and I were able to hold her hands and stay with her while she went to sleep. It was heartbreaking to watch- but can't imagine us not being by her side. They had not done any x-rays up until today, so they really didn't know the full extent of the damage. The dentist went over pretty much every possible scenario with us, but still deep down I knew it would be what we had previously talked about. Resin crowns on the front teeth and resin fillings on the back. The surgery was supposed to take 1-1.5 hours but took over 2. Apparantly they had a very hard time to get an IV started (I am thankful they waited for her to be asleep before doing anything invasive)- it took 9 attempts before they got it. Her top molars were worse than they thought- one needed a pulpotomy, and both upper molars were capped with stainless steel crowns- I am honestly not too happy about this, I know I would never consent to amalgam fillings in her mouth, and I know we went over every scenario, but I was still surprised by this and am not sure what to think about the nickel in her mouth. Her bottom 2 molars were filled with resin and the front 4 were capped with resin. They are a bit bigger than her 'old' front teeth- she does look a bit different. I am happy they were able to do them and am really hoping they last.

We were also able to be in the recovery room as she woke up. Overall she did really well- she has pretty much slept and nursed all day long. We don't go back to the dentist to be checked for 3 weeks.

[lamamax3]

Experienced Mom Here

I know what you are going through; we faced the same thing when dd was 18 months old. We had her work done in a Children's Hospital by a pediatric dentist under GA, which was very scary. We don't have dental insurance either, but our health insurance did cover all hospital costs.

Since then, I have researched this topic endlessly. There is no conclusive evidence that bf causes this, but it can make it worse if there are any food particles left in the mouth with the bm all night.

DD will be 6 years old in July, and we were just told that she has several new cavities and very weak enamel on many teeth. She has not nursed since she was 22 months old, and all of this weak enamel and cavities are new. There is no way that night nursing caused them.

DS was also just diagnosed with weak enamel and cavities. He is 3 1/2, and has never had problems before. He actually nursed for a year longer and much more often at night than his sister, and his problems are less severe and came on later than her's did. The dentist no longer blames the bf, but wonders if antibiotics I was on during both pg may have done something. She also thinks it could be genetic. Honestly, I have been vigilant about watching his teeth, and no weakness showed up until after he weaned!

DD just lost her first tooth, which was a molar that had been crowned. It looks like it has been rotting away under the crown the entire time!!! No one warned us that might happen. Also, some of the crowns the dentist put in when she was a baby may have been "preventitive" while we thought that they were all being used for actual decay.

Good luck with your decisions, but be aware that the problem will not just go away like the dentists imply. Our second opinion dentist actually said that the first one may have ignored other spots of weak enamel that I pointed out three years ago so that they would get to the point of needing crowns!!!!!!

lamamax3

dd 5yrs
ds 3yrs
#3 edd 6/7

[blessed]

Originally Posted by mamasgirls

We were also able to be in the recovery room as she woke up. Overall she did really well...

It sounds like you had a really good anesthesia team. I'm so glad it went well!

[sarahariz]

Originally Posted by toraji

Night nursing does not cause cavities. If it did, then our species would have had all their teeth rot out at an early age

I'm new to this thread, but the title caught my eye because my 21 mo old dd definitely has some decay in her four front teeth... I've been afraid to take her to the dentist because I thought I would be told to stop night nursing. With her, I'm sure her problems were exacerbated by not letting me brush her teeth until about a month ago. This thread is causing me to wake up. I need to be much more diligent about her teeth, and make an appt. with the pedodontist.

Does anyone have a link to a good resource for ECC?

Thanks!

[Raynbow]

Oh, momma... *hugs* from me.

I've BTDT. September of last year (I wrote a few posts on my concerns) my toddler DS needed to go under GA to have 8 cavities fixed (all in his side teeth and molars). I was terrified, but he came through with flying colors!

Insurance covered most of the actual dental work and amazingly (despite initially denying it) most of the anesthesia, too. The "facility cost" (for the outpatient surgery center) had to be paid up front and was $2400 oop - no insurance would cover that. So approximately $3000 oop.

My son did beautifully with the GA, despite my fears that he'd never wake up or be brain damaged from it or die... he woke up, nursed and asked for a hamburger... :P

His teeth no longer hurt him and he doesn't fight me as much with tooth brushing - and we're still happily nursing.

[Raynbow]

Oh.. and genetics play a LARGE part in cavities I've found... my older son has my teeth and rarely has cavities despite poor hygiene (he's almost 13), but my younger son has had his teeth cared for since before he HAD a tooth and yet had 8 cavities... his father, however, has HORRIBLE teeth - his paternal grandmother has *false* teeth.

[monstermama]

Mamasgirls,

I've btdt too and I so sympathize with your situation. I didn't see in any of your posts that the teeth hurt. Is that the case?

My 10 ds had 12 cavities when he was just a little guy. We actually just let them go, but had the dentist watch them. We saw 5 different dentists over 2 years time, and many recommended caps and silver crowns. Since they aren't recommended for kids under 5, we just decided to wait. And he had had a hernia repair at 2, and I didn't want to do it again.

So, we did two things. We saw a homeopath who addressed some of the digestion problems that were causing the cavities (most everyone blamed the nighttime nursing and I think we were overdosing him with soy which challenged his digestion big time). And we started using xylitol in gum, toothpaste and mints.

Now, he gets cavities (we don't use fluoride) when we forget about the xylitol. You really need to have 4x a day exposure (mints, gum, paste, whatever) to make it be a cavity preventor.

My ds who is not yet two is showing NO SIGNS of decay at all. He has just as many teeth, but he doesn't eat any soy. He grazes all day (which is just like my big guy) and he doesn't have any juice or sugars. He just eats all day, and we brush 1x a day.

I really think the digestion piece was key for us. And the xylitol. I kept asking, "what will happen if we don't do it" (the surgery) and no one gave me a strong enough reason to do it. So we ended up finding a really good pediatric dentist who filled the cavities with laughing gas only. By the time we did it, there were only 9 left (because several had fallen out, baby teeth do that. LOL). We just did a few at a time when he was about 4 - 5. My son still loves the dentist. He loves the woozy feeling from the gas (oh god, a potential drug problem??? I hope not) and the prizes at the end.

We have many friends who have opted for the caps, crowns and fillings, and several who haven't. I don't regret my decision at all. I could never figure out what the rush was. . .especially in baby teeth. My ds has strong, solid adult teeth. If only I could get him to focus on his brushing!!!

Good luck with the process. I wish I had some good sites to refer you to. I just encourage you to trust your heart. Do you really need to do it? And research the xylitol. We buy a jar of 500 mints from the dentist. Fruit flavored. And both the kids love them. Maybe I could arrange some sort of co-op order on them. I think I'll be going through a whole lot of them!!!


Peace,
Jeanne

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Raynbow

Oh.. and genetics play a LARGE part in cavities I've found... my older son has my teeth and rarely has cavities despite poor hygiene (he's almost 13), but my younger son has had his teeth cared for since before he HAD a tooth and yet had 8 cavities... his father, however, has HORRIBLE teeth - his paternal grandmother has *false* teeth.

The research I've read is that older children get more of the nutrition from the mother than the younger and of course this depends on diet while ttc/pg. The father's nutrition in his family could have something to do with his teeth as well. I've never seen any research on genetic causes of cavities, only nutritional.

[mamasgirls]

Originally Posted by JaneS

The research I've read is that older children get more of the nutrition from the mother than the younger and of course this depends on diet while ttc/pg. The father's nutrition in his family could have something to do with his teeth as well. I've never seen any research on genetic causes of cavities, only nutritional.

The only contradiction to this is that my nutrition was nearly identical when pregnant with dd#1 and dd#2, and dd#1 has no issues with her teeth at all. She is 4 and has no cavities. I also had trouble breastfeeding her and EP'd, she never went to bed with a bottle. DD#2 has breastfed, and throughout the night, every night of her life, and she has 8 cavities by 22 months and the classic decay pattern of Early Childhood Caries. Now, maybe the same would have happened if dd#1 would have nursed in the same pattern (which would then lead me to believe nursing at night really does play a factor in this), but it just seems to me it has to be more than just what my nutrition was when her teeth were forming. I agree with you that nutrition and lack there of can be the cause of many, if not most disease processes- I also believe that there are a ton of people that are not at all careful about what they eat while pregnant and their children have perfect teeth as well.

Anyway- I do enjoy and appreciate hearing everyone's opinions on this.

[Raynbow]

Originally Posted by JaneS

The research I've read is that older children get more of the nutrition from the mother than the younger and of course this depends on diet while ttc/pg. The father's nutrition in his family could have something to do with his teeth as well. I've never seen any research on genetic causes of cavities, only nutritional.

An interesting point regarding nutrition during pregnancy - it reminded me of something - I'd never, ever even chipped a tooth prior to my pregnancy with T, but during my pregnancy, I broke TWO *molars*! (broke as in required crowns and one needed a root canal - shattered would be a better word!)

Now, the dentist swears it has nothing to do with the pregnancy, but everyone else I've talked to - including my OB said that it was related. You'd think the kid would have teeth of steel!

I had a lot of stress during my pregnancy with him, as well - and was on profalactic antibiotics in the first trimester - which I am CERTAIN played a part, as did him being on antibiotics in his first few months of life.
There are a LOT of variables, so I guess I can't really give a hard and fast "this is why", but my gut tells me it was a combination of everything.