Raising aware kids in a culturally homogenous area...

[newmainer]

Almost 3 years ago, we moved back to my home state of Maine (hence, the user name...) I grew up here and always envisioned my kids growing up here. It's beautiful, safe, down to earth, great liberal and back to the earth type folks in our part. It is not, however, culturally diverse. It's getting better, and in Portland, the biggest "city" it's a lot more diverse. But where we are, in a fairly small town, it's pretty much white and white.

This was a big consideration for us when we decided to move from California (where my dh is from) to Maine. But i thought that introducing my kids to diverse cultures and viewpoints would be easier to do than not living with crazy traffic, consumerism etc...etc..We go back to CA at least once a year where she has exposure to lots of different communities, we have some friends here who are not anglo (more than we had in CA, which is interesting to me), and since it's a priority for me, we'll make bring diversity into our lives a priority.

But... every once in a while, some one i know here will make a totally ignorant or prejudice statement and i just cringe and wonder... ugh, can i really raise my kids in a community that has such blinders on? But then i remember when i was here, it was even more white and my parents were totally unaware and did not make any effort to bring diversity into our lives and I *still* sought it out on my own, cause that's just how i am. Still, it bothers me occasionally.

Just wondering how other families who live in homogenous communities go about bringing diversity in their lives and how they feel it may affect (or not) their children.

[woobysma]

hmmm - I'm in a fairly diverse area - but I have come in contact with some pretty ignorant people. When I felt like DS1 was old enough to be paying attention to people's comments, I just started talking to him about it (usually after we were away from those people) - and just being really frank with him about what I thought and the kind of attitude I felt was acceptable.

As for introducing your dc to other cultures, I think the library would be great - just do it kind of like school - this month we're learning about Cuba!, or whatever, and make it a fun learning thing to see how many books and stories you can find. I find that DS is interested in anything new because our family values life-long learning and it's just the atmosphere in our house - "Don't know how people survive in the desert? Let's go find out!!" it spills out into all aspects of your lives and creates open-minded kids - IME at least.

[MamaBug]

I live in NH so I totally understand where you are coming from. We are very proactive if the kids hear anything unaccpetable to us. Also we read lots of books with all kids of families and ppl and that really helps. I also try to point out that wihtout differences in ppl in this world, would make it a very boring place. And thankfully my kids agree

[shayinme]

nak

I'm a black woman in maine so I know exactly what you mean. I have been here 4 years and the state demographics are changing particularly in Cumberland and York counties. I would say you can't deal with how others think and act but try and expose dc to diversity by coming into Portland and more importantly modeling examples of tolerance and acceptance. Do you have friends of difference? Its not enough to want dc to see diversity but what are you and dh's stance on diversity, back in Cali are your friends a mix of groups? I think this will impact your kids a lot more than being concerned about what they see on a day to day basis. After all you are from Maine yet seem to be aware.

To be honest, I grew up in Chicago which is a heck of a lot more diverse than Maine yet cross cultural relations are not all that great. In some ways I find the fact that people here flub up and say un PC things (my favorite being "colored") a lot more honest and real to me than "liberal" folks who often especially in Maine and other places make me feel like a pet token project. ( I in no way am trying tio imply that that's what you are doing but I am expressing my own feelings with well intentioned folks who often make me feel uncomfortable)

I live here and am married interacially to a white guy from Cali and have 2 kids and frankly the longer I am here the lack of diversity bothers me less though I do have my outlets to address my needs as far as diversity.

Shay

[newmainer]

Originally Posted by shayinme

nak



To be honest, I grew up in Chicago which is a heck of a lot more diverse than Maine yet cross cultural relations are not all that great. In some ways I find the fact that people here flub up and say un PC things (my favorite being "colored") a lot more honest and real to me than "liberal" folks who often especially in Maine and other places make me feel like a pet token project. ( I in no way am trying tio imply that that's what you are doing but I am expressing my own feelings with well intentioned folks who often make me feel uncomfortable)


Shay

yup, i'm totally aware of that. i've often asked myself, well, do i want to live in a diverse place because it makes *me* feel better, or for other true reasons? And, honestly, it's both. living in a diverse community is more interesting and richer than living in plain old-white-suburban-wherever. And i also think that to lessen the institutionalized racism in this country, you need to live where everyone is not like you- where other languages and religions and traditions are apparent everyday. This was not my experience growing up, and so my mind was blown open when I moved out west. And i loved it- I sought it out. I guess that's what i hope my kids will do through our example- it's just harder to make that example when you don't live in a community that makes it easy, kwim?

I wonder about moving to Portland... my husband and i are always caught in the city-country dilemma, but ultimately, we are nature kids at heart.

anyway, i was curious about how others who are living in similar situations approach this.

btw... how did you end up in me if your dh is from CA and you are from Chicago? I always wonder how non-native Mainers find their way up here

[EFmom]

We are a white couple with two Asian kids. We moved before we adopted because where we were living was so completely white, and I knew it wouldn't be a good place to raise our kids. I'm not suggesting you move, by the way--just that it's something I've thought about. When we go back to visit our previous New England town, we get stared at in a way that is not at all comfortable.

Are you near any colleges/universities? They usually will have a more diverse population. Can you vacation in places with more diversity? Can you make sure that the books and videos that your children see are full of diverse images? Just a few thoughts.

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by newmainer

btw... how did you end up in me if your dh is from CA and you are from Chicago? I always wonder how non-native Mainers find their way up here

My ex spousal unit is from Maine and we have joint custody of ds who is 14, so I moved up here to keep things balanced. I also was interested in a simpler way of life, not sure things are always simple up here but they are interesting. I love the beauty of the place and the realness of the people.

[marybethorama]

Hey Shay,

I'm from Maine originally then I moved to Philadelphia where I met dh (we're an interracial couple-he's African-American and I'm white) and now we live in rural Western MD (between PA and WV).

Philadelphia is also very diverse but it's one of the most segregated cities in America. Interestingly enough there are many interracial couples in this area because there has always been an African American population here. Very small though so there are lots of interracial couples.

My parents live in Maine so we visit at least once a year.

[cumulus]

This may sound odd but one answer for my kids has been pets. Cats and dogs think and experience life in profoundly different ways than humans and I think early experience with animals engenders an empathic way of looking at others that extends in later life to an appreciation for and openness to differences in other beings within one's culture and outside of it. Learning to understand pets or animals so different from us is a good first step to living in a multicultural environment.

"Of all the animals, the boy is the most unmanageable." ~ Plato

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by cumulus

This may sound odd but one answer for my kids has been pets. Cats and dogs think and experience life in profoundly different ways than humans and I think early experience with animals engenders an empathic way of looking at others that extends in later life to an appreciation for and openness to differences in other beings within one's culture and outside of it. Learning to understand pets or animals so different from us is a good first step to living in a multicultural environment.

"Of all the animals, the boy is the most unmanageable." ~ Plato

Not to be too in your face, but the logic here is flawed at best and potentially insulting. Dogs and cats are two entirely different species of animals. A better example (thought still perhaps too simplistic) would be to compare how dogs have different breeds, as humans have different races. They look different, but they are the same kind of animal. They can get along, they can have babies with each other, etc. They have obvious physical differences, and may have more subtle differences in other ways, but they are the same animal.

To use dogs and cats as examples is much like comparing apples to oranges, as it were. It suggests that whites, blacks and other races are entirely different beings who exist in the same world and can get along, but are so different from each other that they cannot mate. That is a potentially dangerous example to set up.

Also, animals do not exist in a complex society. I know you are trying to keep things simple for the child's understanding, but animals don't deal with the myriad issues that we as humans do, with discrimination, misunderstandings and long-standing histories that we pass on to our progeny, for better or worse, that color our views of the world.

So, I understand your desire to give a simple example. I just wish you would choose one that doesn't suggest different races are different beings altogether. When my son was 3.5 a kid told him that he was adopted because I couldn't be his mommy because I was black and ds was much fairer than me. My son was hurt and confused, perhaps some well intentioned Mama/Papa had told used an example similiar to what you are using with your kids but I think it can be dangerous. After all there are no cat-dogs so how can there be a mixed race kid.

Again my intent is not to be in your face but as a woman of color hearing this really bothered me.

Shay

[newmainer]

that example bothered me too...I don't think it's helpful to compare animals to people in very many circumstances, let alone as a way to explain racial and cultural differences. I understand that you did not mean to be offensive, but in some ways, this illustrates my point about living in an area where people often do not think through, or have an awareness of what they are saying when they are talking about diversity.

I also assume that you did not mean to imply that people who are different from us are like animals, but I'm not sure that a child would would see through that metaphor, and even when an adult can, it's still insulting. It sets up white/anglo americans as the "norm" and everyone else as the "other" which is exactly the mentality that I am trying to avoid having my daughter absorb- hence my posting of this thread on how those living in un-diverse areas are combatting that (mis) assumption.

[velochic]

We are a multicultural, multilingual, multireligion family. But we are the same race. Beyond the debate about diversity by species... Just another reminder... there is much more to multiculturalism and diversity awareness than just COLOR. We spend our exta bucks immersing ourselves into foreign cultures as much as possible. Visiting other countries is quite a passion of ours. If you can't go physically, you can (as a pp said) go via your local library with books. You can experience other cultures through cooking their foods or going to a church/synagog/temple service. Make a project of spending a day as if you are in another country. Just remember that cultures are not just about race, but about religion, food, clothes, language, and much, much more. You may find that among that very white population you have more diversity than you think. Maybe not. IME, it's not really something you can teach a child. They have to experience it.

[numom499]

Originally Posted by shayinme

Not to be too in your face, but the logic here is flawed at best and potentially insulting. Dogs and cats are two entirely different species of animals. A better example (thought still perhaps too simplistic) would be to compare how dogs have different breeds, as humans have different races. They look different, but they are the same kind of animal. They can get along, they can have babies with each other, etc. They have obvious physical differences, and may have more subtle differences in other ways, but they are the same animal.

To use dogs and cats as examples is much like comparing apples to oranges, as it were. It suggests that whites, blacks and other races are entirely different beings who exist in the same world and can get along, but are so different from each other that they cannot mate. That is a potentially dangerous example to set up.

Also, animals do not exist in a complex society. I know you are trying to keep things simple for the child's understanding, but animals don't deal with the myriad issues that we as humans do, with discrimination, misunderstandings and long-standing histories that we pass on to our progeny, for better or worse, that color our views of the world.

So, I understand your desire to give a simple example. I just wish you would choose one that doesn't suggest different races are different beings altogether. When my son was 3.5 a kid told him that he was adopted because I couldn't be his mommy because I was black and ds was much fairer than me. My son was hurt and confused, perhaps some well intentioned Mama/Papa had told used an example similiar to what you are using with your kids but I think it can be dangerous. After all there are no cat-dogs so how can there be a mixed race kid.

Again my intent is not to be in your face but as a woman of color hearing this really bothered me.

Shay

I didn't get the impression that she was saying that cats and dogs equals blacks and whites...I read it more as animals of all kinds can get along...I could be wrong though...

[Greenie]

Originally Posted by newmainer

But... every once in a while, some one i know here will make a totally ignorant or prejudice statement and i just cringe and wonder... ugh, can i really raise my kids in a community that has such blinders on?

Try to use that as a learning experience. Bring it up later, and explain why that was an ignorant thing to say, and give examples of why it's not true.

I live in San Antonio, TX, and it's really diverse, but still ignorant here. I think that teaching children to be understanding and open people is all about leading my example. JMO.

[newmainer]

Originally Posted by velochic

We are a multicultural, multilingual, multireligion family. But we are the same race. Beyond the debate about diversity by species... Just another reminder... there is much more to multiculturalism and diversity awareness than just COLOR. We spend our exta bucks immersing ourselves into foreign cultures as much as possible. Visiting other countries is quite a passion of ours. If you can't go physically, you can (as a pp said) go via your local library with books. You can experience other cultures through cooking their foods or going to a church/synagog/temple service. Make a project of spending a day as if you are in another country. Just remember that cultures are not just about race, but about religion, food, clothes, language, and much, much more. You may find that among that very white population you have more diversity than you think. Maybe not. IME, it's not really something you can teach a child. They have to experience it.

This is absolutely what we intend on doing and what was my thought when we decided to move to Maine; that we could make it a priority by teaching and immersing in the ways that you mentioned. I just wonder if it is enough- reading about another culture is one thing, having a friend who practices a different religion and has different cultural practices is another.

I didn't ask the question to debate what diversity is- though i see the relevance, I am well aware that there are more types of diversity than just color- I want to know if others have the same concern and how they address it in their families.

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by newmainer

This is absolutely what we intend on doing and what was my thought when we decided to move to Maine; that we could make it a priority by teaching and immersing in the ways that you mentioned. I just wonder if it is enough- reading about another culture is one thing, having a friend who practices a different religion and has different cultural practices is another.

Living in Maine myself I would imagine that depending on where in the state you live its not so easy to even go and experience different cultures and that can be hard.

My ex used to live up in Lincoln and later Winn, which is about 45 mins north of Bangor and I know that my son never saw any types of diversity and we aren't talking race. In a town of 5K there may be only 1-2 churches, no synagogues, a handful of restaurants, you get the picture.

I am not sure where you are located but in addition to reading and trying to immerse in various cultures via food, etc is it possible to periodically get into Portland or even a trip to Boston? Trips every few months to this locations would also provide good learning opportunities. Sorry, I don't have any other ideas but these are what I do to keep myself sane and focus while living in Maine.

Shay

[velochic]

Originally Posted by newmainer

I didn't ask the question to debate what diversity is- though i see the relevance, I am well aware that there are more types of diversity than just color- I want to know if others have the same concern and how they address it in their families.

Yes, it is a concern. I wasn't trying to debate "what" diversity is, but to just point out that there is a lot of diversity around us that we don't think of.

But to answer the question, we go about addressing diversity very differently than most families because diversity is so much a part of our personal lives. So, what we do, as it is probably one of top issues for us, is to send dd to a multilingual, multicultural private school. It is called The International School and 50 countries are represented by the student body. Also, we spend as much time outside of the US as possible. We've lived outside of the US with dd. She has traveled to over a dozen countries. She is exposed daily to anywhere from 2 to 4 languages. We eat a lot of ethnic food. We have friends that are of different religions and participate in their traditions. So, I guess our way of addressing it is to NOT address it. Dd is learning quite well through life because we keep it very diverse for her. It sometimes takes some work to do this, though, and financially, our focus is to provide the diversity to dd through school and travel.

[Peony]

This is something I think about alot as well. We live in rural CO, there is not much diversity in my area. I am surrounded by different tribes and reservations so dd will be exposed to that culture, but there isn't much else here. I don't think about race but cultures. DH has led a very sheltered life, when we went to DC for the LLL conference last summer, I had a LOT of explaining to do to him. He wanted to know why the people next to us where eating a microwave meal, he had never heard of kosher food before. I don't want that for dd.

[newmainer]

Thanks, velochic. Explaining what you specifically do in your family is what i was looking for. i hope my earlier response didn't seem snarky, it's just that i was concerned that the thread- like many at MDC- was going to veer off on semantics and tangents.

We dont' have anything like an international school here, but we do have a very good language school that teaches everything from French and Spanish to Chinese. (There is also a hosting program which i think would be really fun should we someday have an extra bedroom). They offer some childrens classes and since i speak Spanish and we have friends who speak Spanish, we'll do that. I dont speak fluently enough to raise her bilingually, but i am hoping that we can do 6-12 months in a spanish speaking country in the next few years.

"My ex used to live up in Lincoln and later Winn, which is about 45 mins north of Bangor and I know that my son never saw any types of diversity and we aren't talking race. In a town of 5K there may be only 1-2 churches, no synagogues, a handful of restaurants, you get the picture."

yup...I think it takes another Mainer to truely understand how homogenous this area can be It is not so bad here on the Midcoast and like I said, we do have some friends here who are not anglo, who practice different cultural customs and religions, but it's not like we can go immerse ourselves in Chinatown, or Little Italy, or something like that.

my sister lives in portland, so we definitely come to Portland. We are strongly considering homeschooling so that we have the freedom of incorporating travel and other influences that are more important to us into our lives. I'm hoping that we can even hook in with some homeschooling activities/families there. I know that King Middle School is supposed to be awesome and it totally makes me think of moving there just so we could have our kids in a school like that, but i hate uprooting myself. we moved a ton when i was a kid; it was hard.

We also have family outside of Boston... now, they may be white like us, but they are certainly different Sometimes lifestyle differences among your own family are the most challenging to understand!

velochic- how old is your dd? how old when you started doing a lot of traveling with her?

AMB- do you have plans/thoughts about bringing other cultures into your lives? is your dh into that?

thanks all-

[velochic]

No problem. I understand wanting to keep your thread on topic.

We started traveling with dd when she was 5 months old. The first couple of years, the trips obviously didn't matter much, but people would be surprised how kids make subconscious connections at 3 and 4 years old. That's why it's so important to introduce culture into children's lives from a very young age. (And not to take this off topic, but to make a point... why we need to be so careful about what we "feed" our children's minds through TV & other media at this age... it may seem harmless, but it's not.) Dd wasn't even 4 when she saw Venice in some picture and said to me, "Mommy, look, that place looks like Amsterdam." They both have canals and people travel by boat. She'll often make connections with something she sees and say, "We used to do that when we lived in Germany" or "That building looks like Istanbul" (a mosque). It's awesome to see that her world is so broad now. She recognizes major landmarks in pictures and she will talk about what she did in that particular country... and she's pretty accurate. I'm enjoying seeing the world through a fresh set of eyes.