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Any ethnically Jewish mamas who found Christ? - Page 2

post #21 of 47
Quote:
I just don't understand how they reconcile the whole person/God thing with monotheism.
I reconcile this by knowing that God is so awsome and just by being God can do anything he choses to do or be anything he choses to be. To me it is an amazing and deep mystery, one of many that none of us can ever fully comprehend until we reach heaven. I believe that the bible teaches that God is 1)God the Father, 2)God the Son and 3) God the Holy Spirit, but One God. To most that doesnt make sense but I know that God cannot be hemmed into a box by our limited understanding. Im not Jewish but I found this thread to be so... moving. Im thrilled when I hear of Jews finding Christ. I have to admit that there are plenty of things that I still dont understand. I find it difficult to read thru some of the old testament. Especially the books of the prophets which are the ones where most is mentioned about Jesus or the Jewish massiah. It wasnt christians who made up this story about Jesus being the Jewish massiah, Jesus himself was jewish and claimed to be the Massiah. The first Christians were Jews. Then Gentiles were told about the Gospel, or good news, that the Messiah had come but they wouldnt have understood it like that, they werent waiting for any Messiah. They had a chance to be reconciled to God. Thats how I came to know Christ, or Jesus the Christ.
post #22 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy
I've heard many different things from Christians. Some believe that Jesus was God's son, others believe that Jesus was God, and still others believe that Jesus was a person. I can't wrap my head around these ideas being compatible with one another, because nobody's ever managed to explain that to me, but my understanding is that there are Christians who believe that Jesus was two or all three of those, so I said "God or something like him" in an attempt to cover all of those configurations.

I do recognize that Christians don't veiw Christianity as Jewish heresy, I just don't understand how they reconcile the whole person/God thing with monotheism. I also don't understand how the idea the Jesus was the Messaih can possibly be accepted if you've read the scripture in Hebrew, or if you've read a Jewish translation; it's simply not there. That's a different question, though, so feel free to skip it. I really am curious about these things, like Tikva I've always wondered but never found the right person to ask (and I've asked many).
I didn't read the scriptures in Hebrew, but I found tons and tons of prophecies that points out that Christ is the messiah. Even Isaiah 53 alone. It says that prior to Messiah coming, he should be tortured, beaten, killed etc... Also the prophets Danielle and Sachariy (sorry if I mispelled, I read the Bible in Russian).
post #23 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by genifer
I reconcile this by knowing that God is so awsome and just by being God can do anything he choses to do or be anything he choses to be. To me it is an amazing and deep mystery, one of many that none of us can ever fully comprehend until we reach heaven. I believe that the bible teaches that God is 1)God the Father, 2)God the Son and 3) God the Holy Spirit, but One God. To most that doesnt make sense but I know that God cannot be hemmed into a box by our limited understanding. Im not Jewish but I found this thread to be so... moving. Im thrilled when I hear of Jews finding Christ. I have to admit that there are plenty of things that I still dont understand. I find it difficult to read thru some of the old testament. Especially the books of the prophets which are the ones where most is mentioned about Jesus or the Jewish massiah. It wasnt christians who made up this story about Jesus being the Jewish massiah, Jesus himself was jewish and claimed to be the Massiah. The first Christians were Jews. Then Gentiles were told about the Gospel, or good news, that the Messiah had come but they wouldnt have understood it like that, they werent waiting for any Messiah. They had a chance to be reconciled to God. Thats how I came to know Christ, or Jesus the Christ.
Thank you for this post.
post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by genifer
It wasnt christians who made up this story about Jesus being the Jewish massiah, Jesus himself was jewish and claimed to be the Massiah. The first Christians were Jews. Then Gentiles were told about the Gospel, or good news, that the Messiah had come but they wouldnt have understood it like that, they werent waiting for any Messiah. They had a chance to be reconciled to God. Thats how I came to know Christ, or Jesus the Christ.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that he said he was the messiah, I though that others said that about him. And Christians could not have said anything, because until after J. C. gained in popularity, there were no Christians- he was the basis of the Christian religion, was he not? I will concur that the gentiles of the time had not come to be 'reconciled with G-d' as they were polytheistic/etc. However, the Jews - as J.C. was one himself, were quite familiar with G-d. It was due to the changes of how J.C. followed Judaism and what he stressed that Christianity came forth.
post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikva18
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that he said he was the messiah, I though that others said that about him. .
I believe you are correct. In fact the phrase "Son of G@d isn't in there, either, I don't think. They call him "The Son of Man" which I never really understood the meaning of. (Again, he never said that, others did and he would respond crypticly.)
post #26 of 47
I try to stay out of these threads but this

Quote:
Especially the books of the prophets which are the ones where most is mentioned about Jesus or the Jewish massiah.
stood out at me. WHERE do the books of prophets speak of J as the messiah?

I don't mean to be obnoxious. I just know that when read in the original Hebrew, most of those "proofs" don't really exist. Way more than people realize is lost when the text is translated from the original. Also, unfortunately, some "mistakes" in translation were intentional.

I've done some studying on this topic and I've yet to see anything that speaks of J when put back into the original text.

Again, I don't mean to be rude. This statement just rubbed me the wrong way because I find it be inaccurate.
post #27 of 47
Jesus did claim to be the "anointed one" the Messiah or Meshiach.

JOHN 4:25-26 NKJ
25 The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming" (who is called Christ). "When He comes, He will tell us all things."
26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He."


He also claimed to be the great "I AM"


Jesus did claim to be the great "I AM" which was a direct statement and attribute of the Jewish God Yahweh, or God. GOd told Abraham that He was the great "I AM" (or was that Moses, or maybe both).

The great "I AM",JOHN 8:58 NKJ
58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

JOHN 18:5-6 NKJ
5 . . . Jesus said to them, "I am He." And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them.
6 Then -- when He said to them, "I am He," -- they drew back and fell to the ground.
post #28 of 47
Abraham and Moses weren't the Messiah- they were great men, but not the Messiah. How does Jesus putting himself in the same catagory as Abraham and Moses make him the Messiah?
post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by christianmomof3
For me, the Jewish religion was just a bunch of dead rituals with no love of the Lord, no life of the Lord and no meaning other than doing things because that was what you were supposed to do to be a good Jew.
I'm sorry you felt that way. I wonder if your spiritual path would have taken a different direction if you'd had better teachers of Judaism.
post #30 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama
I believe you are correct. In fact the phrase "Son of G@d isn't in there, either, I don't think. They call him "The Son of Man" which I never really understood the meaning of. (Again, he never said that, others did and he would respond crypticly.)
Actually he did call himself as the "Son of God" when he spoke to Nicodimus (again, sorry if mispelled).

Anyway, we can debate about it for ages. We can quote the Bible until the cows go home, we won't be able to prove anything to each other. It all comes down to what you believe is true and what you believe is not true. I just wanted to know if anyone is on the same boat as me, I don't want or care to debate about it. I don't see a point quite frankly.
post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikva18
tie-dyed, may I ask you a question?...
thank you so much for the opportunity to ask these questions; I have wondered about this for a long time, but generally do not have the right person to ask. Again, I mean no offense in any way.
I do not intend to engage in debate on these issues. I'm sorry several PP's have seen this thread as an opportunity to do so. I particpated in this thread because the OP applied to me, not because I was interested in the worst sort of debate: one in which the participants do not and cannot agree on the definitions of essential terms.

I agree with Janelovesmax that there is no point to the debate this thread has become, both for the reason she cites and the whole definition-of-terms issue.

To the Christian participants in this thread: I'd love to discuss our various journeys in a support-oriented thread. Would there be any interest in one?
post #32 of 47
Tie-dyed, I was not trying to start any type of debate - I was sincerely curious about your situation. I also am not in a position to be critical, as I am not you and have not had your experiences and it is not my place to be critical.
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikva18
Tie-dyed, I was not trying to start any type of debate - I was sincerely curious about your situation. I also am not in a position to be critical, as I am not you and have not had your experiences and it is not my place to be critical.
My situation is not one that will be understood through a discussion on how messianic ideas in Judaism are or are not reflected in Christianity.

I am a Christian, not a Christian apologist. If you wish to have your questions answered about salvation history and what the relationship is between Jewish scriptures and history and Christian scriptures and history there are some pretty good books out there on the subject. I'm not really up on my history/religion scholarship these days, but any university library should have several options available.
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla
Abraham and Moses weren't the Messiah- they were great men, but not the Messiah. How does Jesus putting himself in the same catagory as Abraham and Moses make him the Messiah?

Maybe I should not reply, since this was not originally meant as a debate thread...but I just can't help it. Anyway in the previous post (by Anuska) Abraham/Moses was actually irrelevant to the point, they were simply the men to whom God was speaking when he named Himself. (FWIW it was Moses) The point was that God went by the name "I AM" and nobody besides God ever went by that name in the OT. That Jesus later called Himself by the same name gives strong implication that He is God.
post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico'sAlice
The point was that God went by the name "I AM" and nobody besides God ever went by that name in the OT. That Jesus later called Himself by the same name gives strong implication that He is God.
Now I'm interested. B/c the original Hebrew is not "I am". It is 'ehiyeh asher ehiyeh' - 'I will be what I will be'. So wondering if the "I am" part is mistranslated from the Greek of the NT or if it is refering to something else.

FWIW - religious studies is the debate forum, spirtuality is the support forum.
post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2seven
FWIW - religious studies is the debate forum, spirtuality is the support forum.
Hence the suggestion for a new thread.
post #37 of 47
I have more questions, but I will ask them in another thread.

If your intent was simply to find other people in your situation, but not to ask or answer any questions like the one that I ask, your post would have been better placed in Spirutuality, rather than Religious Studies. This particular forum is dedicated to asking and answering questions (which is what studies are all about).
post #38 of 47
Sorry, x-post.
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy
I have more questions, but I will ask them in another thread.

If your intent was simply to find other people in your situation, but not to ask or answer any questions like the one that I ask, your post would have been better placed in Spirutuality, rather than Religious Studies. This particular forum is dedicated to asking and answering questions (which is what studies are all about).
Although I did not start this thread, I'd like to comment that the OP was specifically addressed to "ethnically Jewish mamas who found Christ" and then mentioned Jews for Jesus.

We Jewish Christians tend to have widely differing views on all sorts of things, like, for example, Jews for Jesus and the celebration of Passover among others.

I cannot presume to speak for others, but I personally find it a bit offensive that certain posters seem to feel welcome to turn anything that involves the words "Jew" and "Christian" in the same sentence into a debate on the legitimacy of Christianity. I'd really like to discuss and yes, even debate, perspectives on our faith with the other Christian posters on this thread.

Sure it's a debate forum, but it ain't *your* debate.

No, it does not violate the UA to hijack a debate. But it's a bit frustrating for those of us who were interested in the original OP.
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tie-dyed
Although I did not start this thread, I'd like to comment that the OP was specifically addressed to "ethnically Jewish mamas who found Christ" and then mentioned Jews for Jesus.
Forgive me; It was in the Religious Studies forum. As an "ethnically Jewish mamma," I thought that the thread might be interesting and provide more insight into a subject about which I had questions.

Quote:
I cannot presume to speak for others, but I personally find it a bit offensive that certain posters seem to feel welcome to turn anything that involves the words "Jew" and "Christian" in the same sentence into a debate on the legitimacy of Christianity. I'd really like to discuss and yes, even debate, perspectives on our faith with the other Christian posters on this thread.

Sure it's a debate forum, but it ain't *your* debate.
Wait... you're not offended that it became a debate, but that Jews who still identify as Jews became involved? You only wanted to debate with other Christians?

Sorry, I didn't ask my questions to offend you, and I wasn't really debating the legitimacy of Christianity itself, only Messianic Judaism (which isn't exactly the same thing). I'm also very curious about the origins of Christianity as they derive from Judaism, and how Christianity and Judaism relate to one another today.

Quote:
No, it does not violate the UA to hijack a debate. But it's a bit frustrating for those of us who were interested in the original OP.
Um, I wasn't hijacking anything, I was just asking questions. You're the first person to make anything like an attack on this thread.

Once again: if someone is posting for support or for a more insular sort of discussion/debate, it really belongs in Spirituality. Putting it in Religious Studies is inviting questions from "outsiders."
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