x-post: CPS for no eye ointment/vit K shot? (Hep B, too)

[NYCVeg]

I was meeting with my doula today and going over my birth plan. I'm planning an out-of-hospital birth, but I also have a hospital birth plan in case of transfer. Anyway, it's apparently the "law" in VA that you need to administer the eye ointment. In the event of a hospital transfer, the doula said that they get REALLY pushy about the stuff and she's heard of cases where they've called social services b/c parents declined--not what you want to deal with when you've just had a baby. Is this really something that goes on? Have you heard of cases?

What concerns me far more is the Hep B. She said they're getting much pushier about this one, as well. Now, for Hep B, I'm willing to fight the good fight--I will do whatever I have to, but they are NOT giving that to my newborn. Have people who have had hospital births had trouble declining? Especially people in VA? (My dh is a lawyer, BTW.)

[LongIsland]

The administration of hepatitis B vaccine at birth is not a mandate in any state. In fact, there are many many hospitals across the country that are not birth dose hospitals.

Regarding the eye ointment - while the laws state the midwife or facility must administer the drops typically within an hour of birth, the parent is not required to consent to the drops.

[LongIsland]

Virginia DOH re eye ointment: http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu...rn/prodeye.cfm

This is required by law to protect the baby from an unknown gonorrhea infection in the mother's body.



Yes, they may have called CPS on some parents, but I wouldn't worry about CPS trying to take your baby away over the eye ointment.

Is the hospital a Hep B birth dose hospital?

[JBaxter]

Can you just tell them its against your religious beliefs? ( OH then add your DH is a lawyer).

Im in Maryland and several of my friends have just delivered and have refused the eyedrops with out a problem. Just make sure that your DH KNOW to remind the nurse the seem to want to do that kind of thing when they move the baby over to the scale. Our local hospital is completely room-in and babies dont go to a nursry unless there is a c-section or problems.

[Drummer's Wife]

I declined both and had hospital births (c-sections even) There is no need for the eye drops/ointment if you know you do not have an std and of course there is no need for the hep B shot in almost all cases.

I believe the drops are required by "law" but like other's said you can decline them like anything else. Of course in the even of a transfer never, ever let your baby go anywhere without you or dh.

Regarding the hep B shot, I was asked if we wanted to do it at the hospital or wait until the first dr's visit. I told the nurses we'd wait and then we didn't end up doing it at all.

I can't imagine that they'd call CPS for you choosing the safer options, makes me mad!!! I hope you are able to have your homebirth as planned and don't have to deal with any of this! goodluck mama!

[CallMeMommy]

It's standard procedure in my hospital to have a social services consult for any parent who declines standard medical procedures : I'm sure that would include the eye ointment. I'm getting more and more dead-set on an UC for the next kid as time goes on!

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by CallMeMommy

It's standard procedure in my hospital to have a social services consult for any parent who declines standard medical procedures : I'm sure that would include the eye ointment.

Yikes!

The best thing to do is just say "this procedure is against my religious beliefs." Same thing with them pushing the MMR, varicella and Tdap on the mother after birth . . . "it's against my religious beliefs."

[CallMeMommy]

Originally Posted by LongIsland

Yikes!

Tell me about it! And that's my plan, too, if I end up in a hospital, just repeat "It's against my religious beliefs" ad nauseum.

[cravenab00]

i think that a whole bunch of doulas should go to law school, that way, you have a doula, and a lawyer. Because, sadly, very sadly, you may need both if you plan on birthing in a hospital.

yeah, the religion thing.

the hopitals owns the baby until you leave.

this is one of the many reasons i UC

[LadyButler]

Recently I spoke with my mw. She told me one of her mom's had recently had DSS (SC's CPS) called on her for no eye ointment. I don't know if she was a planned hospital birth at which mw acted as doula or if she was a transfer... and I don't know the outcome of the "investigation" at this time.

So... that's SC. Hope VA is better.

[RootBeerFloat]

I'm in CO, so I don't know if this helps at all, but I declined Hep B, eye ointment, and vit K in a hosptial after dd was born. The OB got VERY pushy about the vit K, emphasizing the number of kids he's treated with "bleeds in their brains." Just stand firm. No thank you, no thank you, no thank you, thank you we'll think it over, no thank you. It's surprisingly easy, after you've pushed a baby out of your vagina, there's very little you'll not do to protect him/her.

I would also put it in large letters in writing on a birth plan that you tack to the door of your delivery room in the hospital in the event you wind up there. In case something goes wrong (which it won't!) and you can't be the momma bear. And educate dh so that he can stand firm, too.

[supercrunch]

yes, for hep B I'd just tell the hospital that you want to wait until the first doctor appointment. That should at least get you out the door without a fuss.

You could post to the northern VA natural family living yahoo group, I bet someone on there has been through the refusal in the hospital. If you don't know of the group I can link you if you need me to.

[rabrog]

I've been told VA only has medical exemptions - no one's going to care about religion.

Don't know what to tell you except stand between your baby and the Nazi nurse with the needle if you have to.

Jenn

[Drummer's Wife]

you don't need any kind of exemption, you just refuse to let them do them.

I'm not sure if there is a consent form for the eye drops and vitamin K but there is most definitley one here in CO that you have to sign for the hep b shot, before they can inject it.

If they know before the birth that you are declining both the drops and shot (in huge writing if necessary) then they should not do it... of course they can and will do whatever they want when baby is out of your view but you just never let that happen.

[morning glory]

With the eye gunk...would it help at all to go get tested for STDs late in pregnancy? Or might that actually backfire and then be used as proof against you...as in..."See! She went and got tested! Only someone who suspected they HAD and STD would do that!"

I'm just thinking if you had that proof there would be no call for the antibiotics. Crazy how we are all held to the drug addicted crack whore standard when we give birth in the hospital...

With the Hep B...I was thinking about over on the circ board a lot of moms will put an undershirt with NO CIRC...or even some that say things like "I have a foreskin and a lawyer to protect it" on their baby so there are no "mix ups". Is there something similar that could be put on regarding vax?

If you do an exemption and make sure baby is never out of yours or dh's sight that *should* work.

And you cold always call the hospital and ask what they require for refusal of eye gunk, vit K and vax just to make sure you are prepared if you end up having to go in.

With any luck you won't even be there!

Casey

[chersolly]

DD was born in Norfolk, VA (hospital birth) and the hospital had no problems not Vit K/Eye Ointment/Hep B'ing.

[LadyButler]

Originally Posted by rabrog

I've been told VA only has medical exemptions - no one's going to care about religion.

Don't know what to tell you except stand between your baby and the Nazi nurse with the needle if you have to.

Jenn

I believe that's West Virginia you're thinking about...

[MomToKandE]

I'm in VA and did (after some pressure) agree to the Hep B vaccine. Our ped doesn't go to the hospital I delivered at and he was very surprised that we'd had it in the hospital. The 2 hospitals he works with don't usually do it unless there's some unusual worry.

I wish I'd educated myself more about it ahead of time... live and learn.

[NYCVeg]

Thanks for all the opinions. I'm not going to go so far as to have a no vax onesie made up or get an STD test, I think--because I don't PLAN on birthing in a hospital, so I don't want to make it into a huge stressor. It's only a just-in-case worry. We have in our birth plan (and dh has ingrained in his head) that baby is NEVER to be without one parent and that these things aren't to be administered.

In the event of a transfer, both my mw and birth assistant would come with me, so at least I'd have a couple more advocates.

Ugh...I am so, so, so hoping to avoid a hospital transfer at all costs.

[2Sweeties1Angel]

I had DD in a hospital (c-section) and declined the Hep B. I did allow the eye drops because honestly, I didn't really know what they were and I was a little out of it when they asked. I HAVE had a run-in with CPS in this state--they kidnapped my son after his twin died. I didn't have problems with them for refusing the Hep B. It probably helped that I had my lawyer call my doctor and have a little chat with her before I delivered

NEVER let the baby out of your, your husband's, or some other responsible friend/relatives sight in the hospital.