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In talking to intact/circ'd men about orgasm something I seem to notice... - Page 2

post #21 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen
I can't even begin to imagine a conversation with my male friends about the intimate details of their orgasms. And that's even if I did have a clue as to which ones had which kind of penis.

If these guys you've questioned have wives/girlfriends/boyfriends, how do they feel about these conversations? I can just see my girlfriends' faces when I asked their husbands, "So, Jim, tell me about your orgasms. And could you please pass the rolls?"
I don't have anything to add but this post just made me I couldn't imagine having these conversations either but if people can, more power to them!

Also, American men seemed pretty popular with European women when I lived there so maybe novelty is an issue?
post #22 of 82
My Dh's is loose, he has plenty of skin to pull way over the end when erect. When flacid you'd never know he was cut.

Maybe that is the key. *waiting on sythea's response*
post #23 of 82
That is exactly the key.

Before I restored, I didn't even know the skin was supposed to move. I thought it was just supposed to be stuck there, like the skin of the fingers or toes. When I restored to the point that the skin was loose and stretchy, I thought I had damaged myself.

Aren't you and your husband lucky he didn't get skinned alive, like some of us did. It's not something to brag about... because we're not all that lucky... it something about which to say, "Whew! Guess we dodged a bullet!"
post #24 of 82
This hits close to home for me. DH & I don't make love very often, and he has admitted to me that he does it more for my pleasure than his. Half the time he doesn't reach orgasm, either he tires out or it becomes too painful for me. He has said that it seems like alot of work for just "two seconds of pleasure." (His words.)
He is tightly circed, with little skin movement when erect. I've wanted to bring up restoration for a while now, but for the life of me, I can't think of how to talk to him about it without making it sound like I'm not satisfied with him. Or sounding like I'm nagging him into it.
post #25 of 82
Sorry, there are so many forums here at mdc it takes me a while to check back on all the ones I've posted to.

I think DH's is "looser" then most...he can pull enough of the shaft skin over the head to cover it. But normally, he looks completely cut. Completely hard, he can barely move the skin.

I didn't make my post to cause a debate. I highly doubt anyone is going to see my post and decide that it, instead of all the other posts here, will sway them one way or the other in reguards to circumcising their boy. I'm not propagating circ'ing, merely pointing out that there are many reasons a man might not being reaching the orgasm he thinks he should be having (or actually should be having). And I wholeheartedly agree that being cut can definitely cause problems. Hard to convey what I mean in typed words, sorry.
post #26 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonmama7
Also, American men seemed pretty popular with European women when I lived there so maybe novelty is an issue?
Just curious - what part of Europe you where and when? I know here in Scandinavia we get lot of exchange students from USA and since our naughty sauna culture Americans quickly learn that they are different on penis department - this is comes often as a shock to them(obviously lot of young Americans still think that circ is done everywhere). Scandinavians mostly feel pity - just like they would feel pity to circumcised woman.

I also do know a finnish woman who is married to circ American guy and she told me she is absolutely devistated and don't kno what to do. I talked about foreskin restoration but she is afraid to bring it up.
post #27 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by bravofrenchie
but for the life of me, I can't think of how to talk to him about it without making it sound like I'm not satisfied with him
Tell him you're sick of the fact that he doesn't/can't enjoy sex. Tell him you WANT him to enjoy sex with you and that you want to share that with him. Make it about him, because really it is - the benefits to you are only secondary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonmama7
Also, American men seemed pretty popular with European women when I lived there so maybe novelty is an issue?
Dunno, but my friends in the UK seemed to have the same attitude that kxsiven's friends have. They wouldn't necessarily turn down a cut guy over being cut but it'd probably be a bit of a dissapointment. The way guys are cut over there (for medical reasons) is a lot looser and saves as much of the skin as possible, as opposed to the stripped barren way here so encountering a cut British bloke isn't as bad to them as say, an American.
post #28 of 82
Ok now what happens' when someone comes on like alot of my DH's friends and was stationed in Germany or where ever before Desert Storm or went to a foreign hospital after being injured in this war, and they were popular with the girls there?

They read these posts, say "Well thats not true, nobody said anything bad about me being cut" and go on and cut their kids, that's why I think this sortof disucssion isn't productive.
post #29 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minky
Ok now what happens' when someone comes on like alot of my DH's friends and was stationed in Germany or where ever before Desert Storm or went to a foreign hospital after being injured in this war, and they were popular with the girls there?

They read these posts, say "Well thats not true, nobody said anything bad about me being cut" and go on and cut their kids, that's why I think this sortof disucssion isn't productive.
This whole post has to do with is the general trend I have been noticing in questioning men that typically circumcised men appear to have orgasms which are penis centered. And, men who are intact have orgasms which are experienced as more full bodied. That was the whole point of this. And, I WILL point out, that a couple of the men I talked to who were cut were absolutely intrigued with the concept that there are men who experience orgasms with their full bodies...not only on their penis. Seriously, they thought that their experience of the penis centered orgasm was normal and that women were just built "completely different."

I would have to say, that I think it is VERY possible for a woman to have good sex with any man...hey, if a woman has all her genitals I think she is able to get a lot of pleasure out of a cut man, intact man or sex toy for that matter. But, that is not the point of this post. It is focusing on the man and what they were robbed of, and what they DON'T even know they should be able to experience.

Plus, as several people I know have eluded to this idea...."sex is like pizza... even bad sex, is ....errr....still sex." And, I think a lot of this will hold true for women, at least while we have higher levels of lubrication and are young (but that is a whole other matter). Enough women who have been with cut men long term have told me that often they don't notice the issues in the relationship until deep in the relationship when the mental "newness" and excitement of a new partner wears off. But that is a whole other concept...
post #30 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minky
Ok now what happens' when someone comes on like alot of my DH's friends and was stationed in Germany or where ever before Desert Storm or went to a foreign hospital after being injured in this war, and they were popular with the girls there?

They read these posts, say "Well thats not true, nobody said anything bad about me being cut" and go on and cut their kids, that's why I think this sortof disucssion isn't productive.
Personally, I feel that argument is pretty pointless. I mean if you have an individual who is so open minded enough to be here, hopefully they will not take this argument as the only reason for not circumcising their son. I would hope that they look at this whole reasoning, as a POSSIBILITY, a very likely possibility that perhaps their son's sex life will not be all that it could be.

I mean if you have somebody as close minded enough to do what you say, "Oh, that's not true, because overseas I was popular with the ladies and I'm cut" and goes on to cut their son anyway, they will probably not be open to any of the other reasons not to cut their son anyway.
post #31 of 82
I must chip in here. There does seem to be a sudden change of mood (shall we say?) in this thread, but that is the stuff of debate and acceptable. However, as I understand it, this is supposed to be a discussion board, not a debate board - more's the pity.

To briefly answer the two posters who have offered a different and refreshing aspect to this thread, I'd like to respectfully ask if you have experienced penetrative sex with an uncircumcised penis. My point is, just as a male who underwent RIC as an infant can never understand what he has not known, nor can a female. He may well find sexual intercourse to be as rewarding and wonderful as his imagination can muster, with a whole-body experience that leaves him - and his partner - totally fulfilled... to the best of his knowledge.

Nature provides us with the perfect design for procreation. Each sex is given the ultimate tools to accomplish this. The foreskin is the equivalent of the clitoral hood; each were created to protect and enhance the act of copulation - and thereby encourage us to perpetuate the species. The foreskin is not a freak of nature, it is part of a faultless whole. It is there to offer both partners the definitive sexual experience.

Christopher, England

(I added my location because for some reason it doesn't appear under my username. I included it when I registered. Can anyone explain its absence? Please?)
post #32 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by kxsiven
Just curious - what part of Europe you where and when? I know here in Scandinavia we get lot of exchange students from USA and since our naughty sauna culture Americans quickly learn that they are different on penis department - this is comes often as a shock to them(obviously lot of young Americans still think that circ is done everywhere). Scandinavians mostly feel pity - just like they would feel pity to circumcised woman.

I also do know a finnish woman who is married to circ American guy and she told me she is absolutely devistated and don't kno what to do. I talked about foreskin restoration but she is afraid to bring it up.
Hmm. I lived in England but I must admit, when I lived there I really wasn't that "conscious" of the whole issue so probably wasn't paying attention to that aspect, IYKWIM? And no one really said anything to me, but maybe because I am American?

In terms of American male popularity, what can I say -- they were popular in the dating pool that I knew! but as I said above, maybe my English friends had other thoughts about their equipment -- we never overtly discussed it.

I'm also thinking of your friend -- didn't she know before they got married? Would most Finnish women turn down American men because they're cut? I've never really thought about this international dating angle before!
post #33 of 82
Well, orgasms are different for different people. Not all women describe orgasm in the same way, or feel it the same way. And orgasm is not exactly the same every time it happens for me. I have had long term relationships with intact men and circed men. I can say without a doubt that the circed men I've been with have had what would be described as full body orgasms.
post #34 of 82
Gotta run out the door to church but thought I'd quickly add that my intact boyfriend's responses are WAY different than any circ'd partners I've had. Longer, louder, more intense.... I'd say he's both more sensitive and more reactive but at the same time! I don't think circ'd men could comprehend this idea.
post #35 of 82
Sure, it "seems" that some of these circed men are having "full body orgasms". It seems that my husband's (who is tightly circed) whole body is involved with the orgasm, his breath quickens and deepens, and his muscles tense up.

So, it would SEEM that he is having a full body orgasm.

But, when you ASK him what his orgasm feels like, he will tell you that he feels it in his penis. It's like, he still can't relate to the entire spectrum of sensations that sweep over my body. He just looks at me and raises an eyebrow, and think that it's because I am a woman.

So even though it may seem like a circed man is having a full body orgasm, he still may not be feeling as much as he seems to be. The key is to ASK HIM and see what he says.
post #36 of 82
To discuss that point just a moment - Gaby'smom, my dh couldn't describe his orgasm if you paid him. He doesn't know how to use words to describe himself hardly at all, and describing orgasm is hard enough for the verbalizers! His whole body is definitely involved - respiration, shoulders, toes, the whole shebang. However, he was circed at birth, and so doesn't know how different it would be. Doesn't matter to him at this point, because he is who he is. He doesn't have much hair on his head anymore, either, and that is who he is. It would be great if he could verbally communicate with me about whether this is what he wants for himself, whether he feels it's a whole body experience, but I don't think he COULD, circed or not.

I think that finding a partner who responds in ways that are thrilling and moving to you is really important, not whether there is anything in particular about his orgasm that makes you think that his intact or c'd penis is what you were always looking for...That's for Nathan - whom I'm thrilled to hear has a wonderful partner who sends him to other universes.

As for the OP I think that DaddJoe covered the bases there - we're all just fluff.
post #37 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabysmom617
Sure, it "seems" that some of these circed men are having "full body orgasms". It seems that my husband's (who is tightly circed) whole body is involved with the orgasm, his breath quickens and deepens, and his muscles tense up.

So, it would SEEM that he is having a full body orgasm.

But, when you ASK him what his orgasm feels like, he will tell you that he feels it in his penis. It's like, he still can't relate to the entire spectrum of sensations that sweep over my body. He just looks at me and raises an eyebrow, and think that it's because I am a woman.

So even though it may seem like a circed man is having a full body orgasm, he still may not be feeling as much as he seems to be. The key is to ASK HIM and see what he says.
:
post #38 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabysmom617
So even though it may seem like a circed man is having a full body orgasm, he still may not be feeling as much as he seems to be. The key is to ASK HIM and see what he says.
I've had very open relationships with my partners that involved detailed communication regarding sexual feelings. Probably because I'm really interested in what my partners feel. All I can say is that IME you can't make a blanket statement regarding how ALL circed men experience orgasm. I haven't found the conclusions being made in this thread to be an accurate assesment of the men I've had sex with.

To answer the question fully would no doubt put this thread in lockdown as the details involved in why orgasm can be better for some men and not others involve talking about sex in more detail than is allowed on MDC.

BTW, nowhere in my post did I use the term seem, which you seem to be so forcused on. I went by my own personal experiences of having sex with these men and on discussions with them about how they experience orgasm.



I still think circ should be illegal, but I do agree with PPs that trying to pin intactness on this issue is not the best way to further the cause. Especially I have seen this discussion on mainstream forums and it always results in people saying that well I/my partner doesn't have any problems you all are nuts and I'm not listening to anything else you say. Plus there are the people that think less feeling is good and reduces the incidence of masturbation so you are giving them one more sellng point for circ. Sadly I've even seen such sentiments posted at MDC that someone doesn't want to "promote" masturbation. :
post #39 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
I still think circ should be illegal, but I do agree with PPs that trying to pin intactness on this issue is not the best way to further the cause. Especially I have seen this discussion on mainstream forums and it always results in people saying that well I/my partner doesn't have any problems you all are nuts and I'm not listening to anything else you say. Plus there are the people that think less feeling is good and reduces the incidence of masturbation so you are giving them one more sellng point for circ. Sadly I've even seen such sentiments posted at MDC that someone doesn't want to "promote" masturbation. :
I have to say, there are people out there who NO MATTER what evidence, logical thought and documented facts you present to them will still go on to circumcize their sons. Just because those people are out there, it doesn't mean that we have to stop discussing what we know. Is EVERYTHING on this board about trying to convince people not to circumcise? I mean, a lot of this is sharing experiences and ideas with eachother who are likeminded.

I have heard some of the same sentiments as you....a woman on a mainstream breastfeeding board I am on researched all of the information I showed her, then went on to write to me and everyone in the group "I don't care if he feels more or enjoys sex more...frankly I think men enjoy sex enough." According to her, as long as he is able to have any orgasm then circumcision is OK. What a load of crap. : These women on the whole don't seem to enjoy sex and mainly just tolerate it with their husbands. They don't know what sex might be like with a partner with intact genitals. And, since they have discomfort/weird sensations which take away from sex they just mentally assume that women just aren't designed to have sexual pleasure or orgasm. It takes a whole lot of female stimulation in the right way to overcome the negative/irritating sensations that you receive at times. Irony being I am one of those women who is very responsive AND have not had difficulty climaxing...BUT...they were often a mixture of pain/pleasure when it happened.

Before I knew what role circumcision played in my sex life I assumed that something was wrong with me because I got chafed (as did DH) and I had to use artificial lube. DH had to be so rough to get pleasure, and that made things uncomfrotable/painful at times. I had thought that was normal and that there "must have been something wrong with me" for not liking it when he did that.

THEN...when I discovered what circumcision had done, how it made sex less comfortable, dryer and made me more likely to chafe...well, then something just clicked in my head. Well, DUH, if you took away the negative sensations circumcision gives you well then sex would be all around comfortable, no pain at all...just pleasure (it was sort of a mix of it before...the sensations being at best subconsciously annoying to at worst painful). Now that I understood how a penis was meant to work (a whole penis that is) I never felt bad about using lube....I insisted that I start on top to take things at my own "gentler" pace...I take my time and do my thing....then I give him his turn to do the rough stuff he needs.

DH knows most of this stuff too....I talk to him/share things (which may be why he is now on the road to restoration). He is open minded about things, and to a certain extent that is what you need to be in order to be receptive to the idea that what your circumcised normal is wouldn't be as good as what an intact normal would have been.

I mean, if you think about it in simple language...who do you think would have more sexual sensation...the person who had all of the genitals they were born with, or the person who had some of their genitals removed? That makes it a no brainer.

Like you said, there is going to be people out there who will think "oh, well, if he can still orgasm then it's still OK." What stupid logic though. I mean, I have read stories of circumcised women who still orgasm. So, does that mean that it was still right what was done to them? I think not.

Everyone has the right to the fully functioning genitals they were born with.
post #40 of 82
It's a no-brainer to me that an intact man is going to have the potential to have a better, fuller sexual experience. Whether he does or not will depend on a lot of other factors, just like it would for a circ'd man.

My circ's were botched, so I know I can orgasm despite the fact that my penile sensation and direct pleasure from it are practically non-existent. Like others have said, it's a lot of work for a few seconds of enjoyment. I DO think I've had the rare full-body orgasm, maybe because it's such a mental exercise for me that I've had to develop other qualities of my sexuality rather than rely on enjoyment from my penis. But I'd still rather have been left intact and had the opportunity to develop my full capability.

I think this is a valid discussion for this board. The bottom line for me is still that any parent who would circ for a sexual-related reason is just cracked in the head; there's no way it can improve on nature's design.

Interesting discussion!
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